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This text is from an old encyclopedia whose copyright has expired. Please feel free to update, expand, remove anachronisms, etc. --KQ
Is there any source of this etymology? It seems a bit fanciful and there is a similar German word alt meaning 'old' that refers to a top-fermenting kind of beer.
Answer to your question:
My copy of the OED (1971) has the first reference under the defintion for ale, dated 940: Sax. Leechd. II. 268: "Do healfne bollan ealoď to, and gehǣte Þǣt ealu." I can't translate that, and a couple of the characters of the other words are not quite right, but it clearly contains the word 'ealu.' Berkeleygabi 06:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Many contributors to this encyclopaedia are incorrectly using the term "lager" when they mean bottom fermented Ale or Beer. There are two main types of yeast - top fermenting yeast and bottom fermenting yeast. In the UK, Ireland and Belgium, the predominant method of brewing uses top fermenting yeast. In Germany and central Europe (Czech Republic and other places) the predominant method uses bottom fermenting yeast.
The term lager is almost exclusively used in the UK and Ireland (possibly in other English speaking countries). It would never be used by a German Brewer to describe a beer. It is used to describe a brewing process - lagering is storing beer until the fermentation has slowed down to a specific point; this is a process that tends to be used for bottom fermented beers; although top fermented beers do have to go through a period of conditioning.
Bottom fermented beers can be light, dark, strong, weak, wheat beers etc... calling them lager is a misnomer.
The products marketed as lager in the UK was inevitably very light and bore a passing resemblance to Pilsner beers, or Budweiser beers (those from the Czech? towns of Pilsen and Budweis respectively). However this was as often as not Top fermented beer, anyway! So to compare bottom fermented beers with lager is an insult to continental brewers.
The usage above is common in the USA, where brewers have the unfortunate habit of referring to all top-fermenting beers as ales and all bottom-fermented beers as lagers. European brewers are more likely to use top-fermenting and bottom-fermenting, or the equivalent in their local language.
88.104.202.233 (talk) 13:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The problem I have with the whole top-fermenting vs bottom-fermenting distinction is that both ale AND lager yeast ferment while IN SUSPENSION in the beer; i.e. neither on top nor on bottom. The yeast cells that drop out of suspension have become dormant, while the foam, or krausen, that develops on top of fermenting beer contains a relatively small percentage of the total yeast in the fermenter. Additionally, beer using lager yeast will form a krausen if fermented too vigorously (usually at higher temperatures). The REAL difference between the two styles of beer is the temperature at which they undergo primary fermentation. While certain strains perform better at different temperatures, and contribute different aromas/flavors, the major taste differences that one associates with lagers or ales (i.e. fruitier esters for ales or clean, sometimes sulphurous aromas for lagers) are a function of the temperature at which the beer was fermented.
While it is true that ale and lager yeasts are different species taxonomically speaking, the small difference between the two species has nothing to do with where in the fermenter they consume sugar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.180.194 (talk) 01:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
-71.220.180.194 (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
I just read in Merriam-Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged that porter is "a weak stout." So, I'm going to place it below Stout. Let me know if I'm off, though.
Thanks,
Primetime 08:58, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
"If a farmer have no mead, he shall pay two casks of spiced ale, or four casks of common ale, for one cask of mead." If kept, this probably needs a citation.
I certainly would not take Webster as the authority of all things beer. I would take the definition of such styles as "stout", "porter", or "pilsner" from such authors as Michael Jackson.
The Czech "Budweiser", which is called Budvar and is of the Czech "pilsner" style, is from the southern Czech town of Ceske Budejovice, or the old German name of "Budweis". Pilsner Urquell, or Plzensky Prazdroj, comes from the western Czech town of Plzen, formally called Pilsen.
Americans who are knowledgeable of beer use the term "lager" to refer to any bottom-fermented beer, be it a pilsner, helles, bock, maibock, Hefeweizen, koelsch, amber (Vienna), schwarzbier, etc.; we also use "ale" to refer to any top-fermented beer, be it pale ale, bitter, stout, porter, etc. Unfortunately, due to decades of dominance of bland, tasteless, light "helles"-derived lager beers, the term "lager" still refers to, in popular usage, such beers.
The passage about the USA legal definition was removed by me. The section was pointless, and added very little (if anything) to the article. 84.68.57.146 01:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to propose it right now, but perhaps merging these two articles would be appropriate? At the moment, this article offers no links to either Real ale or Campaign for Real Ale, both of which are very relevant. Yet, personally, I'd like to see the articles remain separate, but I'm not sure in quite what way to distinguish them. DWaterson 18:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
In the US lagers are by far more popular. Bud, Miller, Corona, and Heineken lagers are the most popular and common beers in the US, the only ale thats extremely common in the US is Guinness. Now I mean you can find them, but the dominant style of beer in the US is Lagers.
- Guiness isn't an ale, but I certainly agree that Ale is absolutely positively not anywhere close to being the most popular type of beer in the US, or Germany for that matter. Britain is the only place I can think of where it is decidely dominant. Budweiser, MGD, Coors, and then all the popular imports people enjoy like Carlsberg, Corona, Heineken, Stella, etc. etc. all standard pale lagers. Not sure where one would find any statistical data on this matter, but it's clearly not correct.
Would it be possible to have an American Ales paragraph on the main page of this article? --MichaelGG (talk) 03:30, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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"in modern times Fullers Golden Pride is often considered by some to be a rare remaining example of a classic Burton style " - not only does this lack a source/citation, I suggest it's completely untrue. Golden Pride is a strong bitter or possibly a barley wine. Fullers' 1845 is regarded by the brewery (personal communication) as a Burton Ale-style beer. Zythophile (talk) 15:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Uhm, a "top-fermented" link in the beer article redirected here, but, blast it, i can't find a single occurrence of "top" or "bottom" in this article ! Whereas there're loads of those in this discussion page. What gives ? --Jerome Potts (talk) 09:31, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
92.235.37.187 (talk) 23:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
88.104.205.206 (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
In the following passage:
What does the final phrase mean? Its reads as if porter and stout not served from the cask. Though I am not authoirty on shtout, Porter can most certainly be served in this way and plenty is. Dainamo (talk) 13:56, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Is any beer fermented with bottom cropping yeast considered not to be an ale. Conversely if a beer is brewed with a top cropping yeast, but then lagered for a period, is it an ale. These distinctions seem to get blurred in the articles and books I read. Is there a clear cut line, or a group of hybrid brews that sit in the middle.
BTW i'm looking for contributors to BeerXML to broaden it and stave off a delete marker at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/BeerXML I have friends who insist that only that ale which is cask or bottle conditioned is truly ale. That would seem to exlude a lot of styles like Altbier which is generally filtered and kegged, but considered an ale in Germany — Preceding unsigned comment added by PrivateWiddle (talk • contribs) 22:14, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ale/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The article has many good points, it has an useful image, it has a structured TOC, and is a useful length. Right now, my main criticism is that an article of this length should have a lot more than one reference. Gentgeen 04:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 04:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 07:08, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Could the article make the difference more clear, in the modern day? After reading the article, I still have no idea what the REAL difference is between ale and beer. I know both taste differently, but I have no idea about the DEFINED differences as-is. 2A02:8388:1604:CA80:3AD5:47FF:FE18:CC7F (talk) 18:59, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Ale 2600:1005:B001:42A3:3427:7862:C087:1253 (talk) 17:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2024 and 12 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Blackwing143, BlueKnight8 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Tsapeg, KaraWilmoth, Madisweatt.
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