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Might it be good to include some reference to the end of the operation?
Unless I am reading it wrong the intro seems to blame Lucas rather than Clark. I don't know enough to have an opinion either way (and my opinion would count for naught lacking citations anyway). I was wondering if that was a consensus among historians so well known that it did not require explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.9.46 (talk) 04:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
In Anzio (beginning from March 3, 1944) fought the battalion "Barbarigo" of the Italian Social Republic: 1,180 soldiers. More than 563 were the Fallen of this unit. Near Nettuno there is a Cemetery for the Fallen. On June 1-4 1944, at Castel di Decima (Rome), fought the parachute regiment "Folgore" (1,500 men)of the RSI to protect the German disengagement.
The "Barbarigo" battalion precisely fought in the Nettuno zone, not in Anzio, and the Cemetery for the Fallen ("Campo della Memoria") is in the territory of Nettuno.--Marco Riggi Nettunense (talk) 12:55, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
* Angelita was the name of a little girl, a war orphan abandoned child, found by soldier Christopher S. Hayes of Royal Scots Fusilers. She became the platoon mascott, but few days after a grenade killed her. Anzio's people erected a monument in Angelita's memory, unveiled in the International Year of the Child (1979).
Luiclemens 21:15 29 November 2006
I'd meant to add a bit more to my explanation of my new para in 'Epilogue'. Churchill's justifies his position in his WW2 biography and I can accept his justifications. I wanted to put something in there to state and link to his view, as there's a couple of sentences in the page which, to some extent, case some doubt on the point/purpose/use of the operation and the quality of Churchill's judgement in the matter. Which is fine of course, but I thought there should be defense on behalf of him and a pointer to said defence. Of course, the items I've included are not O.R.; they're taken from his journal. I hope what I've said is reasonable and ok. Roger. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Roger M.E. Lightly (talk • contribs) 18:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
I'd like to rename this article to "Battle of Anzio", are their any objections?
Should this be a redirect or a new article? It is a stub on pl wiki (pl:Bitwa pod Anzio).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Sgt Rogers lost his life but won his VC at Anzio; why is there no mention of this in the article? Regards Robin Forster —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.84.111 (talk) 12:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Sgt Rogers seems to be lost in the mists of time = six books were on the shelves last year about anzio and not one of them mentioned him —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.146.1 (talk) 21:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I searched for the word "canada" and "canadian" in the article, and only found Canada listed under Belligerents and in the Categories section of the article. Was the Canadian Army actually part of this battle? And if so, why is it not mentioned throughout the text of the article? Sixer Fixer (talk) 13:34, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I wanted to ask the same question. I'd add that we have a fairly detailed order of battle which does not mention any Canadian units. john k (talk) 03:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I would propose that this article is not 'start class' but should be upgraded to A or at least B class1812ahill (talk) 16:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to address the tag on the intro. I think I see what the problem is; the general significance of the battle and the train of events has been inundated by a flood of detail causing a terrible miasma in the general comprehension. What I want to do is cut through the swamp with overall conduits and reclaim the general understanding. I'm probably catching you by surprise but by the time you can react I hope to be in Rome. Naturally if you see any way to improve my attack and consolidate our position please do so, but it looks as though we have to get the pumps going in the swamp. And by the way this is far beyond a start class; we've been hanging around these fields for quite a long time now. I was thinking of building a stone house here if we can win the battle for the marsh.Dave (talk) 13:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm addressing another tag, a request for a ref. Here is the part I propose to rewrite:
"Several Allied proposals were made to break the stalemate, but Winston Churchill's idea for "Operation Shingle" was initially looked upon with disdain by the US General George Marshall, who was more concerned with planning a massive Normandy invasion[citation needed] than listening to Churchill's ideas about amphibious operations. Only after Churchill made a personal plea was the idea accepted by Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Joseph Stalin, who welcomed any major Allied offensive that would take pressure off the Eastern Front. A major attack in the south by the U.S. Fifth Army, commanded by Lieutenant-General Mark W. Clark, would draw Germany's depleted forces away from the area around Rome and from the hills between Rome and the coast. This would make possible a surprise landing by Fifth Army's U.S. VI Corps under the command of Maj. Gen. John P. Lucas in the Anzio/Nettuno area, and a rapid advance into the Alban Hills to cut German communications and "threaten the rear of the German XIV Panzer Corps" under General Fridolin von Senger und Etterlin."
There a lot of things wrong with this, but the biggest one concerns strategy. The editor has Clark attacking in the south to divert the Germans away from Anzio. This is placing the cart before the horse! Anzio was undertaken, in the American view, to divert troops away from Cassino! That's where the stalemate was. If you are going to write these things, you ought at least to have played a few military games, for which the games companies paid some high-ranking officers for the priviledge of consulting. That's what they do in general school, play games. Churchill however, who was the only one as far as I can see to have any real understanding of the situation, had in mind an outflanking operation to seize the main objective, Rome. Marshall was not involved, neither was Roosevelt or Stalin; they were all far away. Stalin had been pressuring the allies to take the pressure off of his front but he was not involved in the planning for Anzio nor was HE consulted. Eisenhower was leaving the front for Overlord. I understand and appreciate your boyish enthusiasm for writing about battles but the battle is over and scholarship is what is required now. I say boyish having in mind General Wellington shedding tears and swearing never to fight another battle when the casualty list from Waterloo was read to him, or General Grant's geat drunken sobs in his tent at night as his numerous wounded burned up in a forest fire at the Battle of the Wilderness. He couldn't get them out. So, in honor of all these noble dead, let us try to get it right, hey? And another thing. I notice the sympathy for General Lucas. I'm sympathetic too and I feel sorry for myself for all my errors but the simple facts are he misunderstood the situation and screwed up badly, costing the lives of many thousands of men. We should not alter history in his behalf. No disrespect intended. He had to confront himself, I'm sure, just as we all do. Let's feel sorry for us all and start writing the truth.Dave (talk) 03:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Bobby Benson in Robert Wise's classic film, "The Day the Earth Stood Still," takes spaceman Klaatu to the cemetery where his father is interred. He tells Klaatu his father died at Anzio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.98.136.119 (talk) 17:45, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
My grandfather was with the 30th Regiment of the 3rd Division in the first wave of this operation and his Regiment alone suffered 995 casualties on the first day (as referenced by the regimental history book he owned and I now possess). The 3rd Division thus did not suffer 955 casualties on the first day if one of its three regiments alone suffered 995. My guess is that this was a transcription error along the way where 995 casualties for the 30th Regiment became 955 of the entire 3rd Division.
By the way, anyone have an idea as to the exact location of "Ponte Rotto"? I don't think this "broken bridge" exists anymore as I failed to find it when I visited the beachhead and Cisterna area a few years ago on the 65th anniversary of the Anzio breakout. I think I was in the right general area, but I want to make sure I was roughly where he won his D.S.C. for bravery on May 23rd, 1944. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.56.4.26 (talk) 00:35, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
I have taken out the American English banner above because the article is for the most part actually written in British English and this has been a consistent feature since at least 2007 and certainly well before the time when the banner was unjustifiably (in terms of WP:RETAIN) added in 2011. The addition of the banner in 2011 had no effect on the English usage in the article and the only current exceptions to British spelling in the article are the (correct) use of "Armor" in the proper names of US Divisions and the date format which is more commonly used in US English. There is also an inconsistency in words ending in -ise / -ize. Either is acceptable in British English (-ize is actually preferred by the Oxford English Dictionary but other dictionaries and the majority of users tend to use -ise) but one or the other should be used consistently within the article. Frankly, there is no justification to change the article's language and no need for any banner which gives unneeded prominence to such an unimportant issue. Stephen Kirrage talk - contribs 22:28, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Considering that scope of article seems to be whole almost half year long Battle of Anzio (which also redirects here), I think that article should be also accordingly renamed, as I think that "Operation Shingle" covers only landing operation itself, not the prolonged fighting afterwards.--Staberinde (talk) 10:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Operation Shingle → Battle of Anzio – Aside the initial landing operation (Operation Shingle), article's scope clearly also includes Axis counterattack, following stalemate and later allied breakout. Therefore Battle of Anzio would be more accurate title per WP:PRECISION. Staberinde (talk) 19:07, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.To editor Look2See1: Why are you adding cats to the Operation Shingle redirect? This seems to violate WP:RCAT. Explain. "For commonscat" isn't an edit summary that makes any sense to me. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:04, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
There's been some recent edits to generally correct the name of the "Battle of Anzio" to "Frontline of Anzio and Nettuno". Looking at these changes, and the articles at Anzio and Nettuno, I would suspect that the changes are more technically accurate.
But that's not the deciding factor at WP. Per WP:COMMONNAME, we don't "correct" the names of things, but follow the common and sourced naming. Thus we continue to have an article called Holy Roman Empire and not the more correctly named Schismatic German Association.
Some of the additions of "and Nettuno" might be helpful, but others may just be confusing readers. From what I remember, the headlines and history books in America just said "Anzio".
I'm for trimming these back. --A D Monroe III (talk) 23:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
For the listing of forces, the 504th did not land by itself, but with its usual combat team in support. The 376th PFAB, and C company 307th AEB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.138.52 (talk) 02:50, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
The intro mentions the Germans turning off drainage pumps to entrap and cause an epidemic, yet there is no discussion of this in the article proper. Did this actually happen during the battle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.223.116.151 (talk) 14:06, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
"...the companies of the 6th Battalion, Gordon Highlanders (of 2nd Brigade) were beginning to crumble and later lost 319 men as prisoners, three complete companies.[24]"
With three rifle companies generally making up a British infantry battalion, and the battalion - at full strength - being in the region of 800 men, a little clarification or rewording is needed. Did the remnants of the entire battalion surrender? Regards EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 17:09, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
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I have new information on the SS Lawton B. Evans involvement in the Battle of Anzio and images of the crew should it be incorporated into this article?Wikiinfomation (talk) 03:03, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
Can you support this with -any- contemporaneous cites? Anmccaff (talk) 16:07, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Preserving here by providing this link. Please also see WP:MILPOP. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
My father, Lieutenant Grayal L Farr was a platoon leader in the 1st Armored Division's 81st Reconnaissance Battalion (later Squadron). The "jeep patrol" that made it to the outskirts of Rome was probably his section of four M-8 armored cars.
His battalion landed D+2 and he was immediately dispatched up the highway towards Rome with instructions to keep moving 'till they contacted German forces. From the outset radio contact was poor. They moved quickly, encountering only a few small units of Germans who happened to be along the route. By the time he had good communications he was reading Roman street signs. He was ordered to return to the beachhead immediately. On the way back he encountered and had brush contacts with German units also moving toward the beachhead.
This is all recorded in an issue of "The Cavalry Journal." 16:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)71.209.90.14 (talk)Grayyal E. Farr71.209.90.14 (talk) 16:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
This article primarily uses shortened footnotes. I plan to convert the remaining ref/citations to shortened footnotes so that the citation style will be uniform & consistent. Peaceray (talk) 14:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
I am removing the following text as apocryphal & without a reliable source:
Major General John P. Lucas is reported to have once visited the set of one of Murphy's films, where he was obliged by tradition to salute Murphy (i.e. Murphy had the Medal of Honor and Lucas did not). While Murphy returned the salute, he refused to shake Lucas's hand and walked away. Murphy later explained: "too damn many good men died at Anzio and Nettuno because of that son of a bitch. I'm damned if I'll shake hands with him."[1][better source needed]
References
Please note that I tried to search using the following criteria but found nothing reliable.
It may be that there is something in a book that Google has not indexed. If you can find a reliable citation for it, please add it back to the article. If not, please leave it out; we do not need to give credence to a fiction.
Peaceray (talk) 19:20, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
No mention currently of attacks on the Gustav line to draw German forces away from the beachhead? GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)