This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm not the one trying to puff up PWU, and in fact can't tell you anything about it. You, however, have repeatedly spun this article. It wasn't a "complaint" that resulted in the name change, it was the loss of a lawsuit. I've corrected the article. I've also edited the section on the accreditation to perhaps make CCU look a little better than the way you had it, while explaining the GAO determination in the first place.
I don't have anything in particular against CCU. I have a lot against hiding the truth, or being misleading. Critic-at-Arms 06:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually it was not you specifically, but someone without a login name who apparently has been puffing up PWU and such.
I never had a problem with the name infringement passage at any time, but I was not the one who originally termed the infringement case a "complaint". My main intention was to correct the name of the "plaintiff" school to CWSL (as opposed to CWU).
Moreover, I think you should note that the name of the GAO report in question is "Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense". The report refers to California Coast University as an unaccredited school that charged a flat fee (and does not mention that the school was state-approved for decades). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmacw6 (talk • contribs)
CCU has gained ground in the past 34 years and maintains a steady course in spite of its detractors. Unfortunately, education is a snooty field for many who seek validation. One of the biggest criticisms of this school is that its tuition is low. This taunts the big bucks, elitist approach to education. Other criticisms are that this school is not well known. For those who need brand names for their educational validity and if national accreditation won't do, then they should go somewhere else. Much criticism revolves around the distance approach. If independent study is not for you, then go where you can sit and listen to a lecture. But to cry out against the school as a diploma mill speaks volumes against the detractors. In spite of these criticisms, the loudest wailing still cannot drown out the trumpets of approval from the U.S. Department of Education, the DETC, and CHEA, all leading accreditation authorities in higher education. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.34.112.176 (talk) 02:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
I just edited this page to remove some of the unbalanced and biased descriptions. What is needed on this page is a history of CCU that presents both sides with credible sources and unbiased language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davewagner (talk • contribs)
A history section would help the page, but not much detailed information is available to impartial outsiders. CCU does not issue a year book. The staff is fairly small and close knit, but remarkably stable over four decades. The faculty members tend to be replaced when they retire or die. What little history is written appears in old catalogs from the CCU and have already been referenced in the article. A great many people have CCU degrees, but only recently with social media have they begun to associate together. Students from early years took a risk and sometimes had to defend their degrees. There is a history of court cases decided in favor of CCU graduates, and another history of poorly documented criticism widely published. The critics offered me computer viruses when I tried to track down the leads they posted. There is another large history of how cost increased in traditional colleges, and how students and state governments tried to cope with it using modern communications and non traditional approaches, but it doesn't fit in this article. Conclusion is a history section is needed, but can't be produced within Wikipedia standards at this time. Astrojed (talk) 03:46, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
I've never taken any class at CCU but CCU is DETC accredited. So, it's unclear to me why there's discussion about CCU being a diploma mill? It may be true that RA is held in higher regard by many, especially within academia but DETC accreditation in my mind (I assume to most people as well.) means that CCU is not a diploma mill. The main purpose of my note here is to ask if anyone objects to the removal of the ((NPOV)) tag in the article? Thanks, TallMagic 18:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
California Coast University has been removed from the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board's list of questionable and/or substandard institutions-- positive news, to be sure. But the school should have been removed from this negative list back in early 2005, when it attained recognized accreditation. (Even state agencies can make mistakes). Obi777 10:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I would agree. As of today the current list on the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board has CCU listed as a questionable and or substandard institution. Not sure what list Obi777 is refering to. Check out this news report [1] --Skippycan 21:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Obi777 13:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
It appears to me that Texas is saying that DETC is an unacceptable unrecognized accreditation agency. http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/reports/PDF/1254.PDF My personal guess is that this will unlikely hold up in an expected court challenge. Interesting! TallMagic 05:00, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Looks like someone removed the information related to the THECB. I have restored the inforamtion as it is verifyable and accurate as of today. --Skippycan 15:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I reverted a deletion of the Texas position from the article. Please review the above discussion for the reason why. I agree that the Texas position is likely illegal. Find a reliable source that makes that assertion and let's add it to the article! TallMagic 15:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Even if an argument can be made that this is illegal that does not change the fact that the THECB has deemed degrees from CCU to be fraudulent or substandard. In the state of Texas the THECB is tasked with making these determinations. --Skippycan 16:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Looks like some people don't like the fact that CCU has been placed on the fraudulent or substandard list by the state of Texas as noted by recent changes. As we have discussed previously the fact is that the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board as made this determination as noted by their statement on their webpage. Some may feel that this is illegal or unjust but until the THECB determines otherwise the use of CCU degrees in the state of Texas is illegal. This information is verifiable and accurate as of today. ***Please note: THECB officially recognizes DETC, and CCU is no longer on any Texas list***' --71.145.131.157 15:18, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Once again it seems that people wish to use this entry to disagree with the determination made by the THECB. If people wish to change the facts they need to take it up with the THECB. The fact is that until changed the THECB has deemed degrees from CCU to be fraudulent or substandard.--Skippycan 17:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)****Please note: THECBB recognizes DETC as of 7/24/08, and CCU is no longer on any kind of Texas list****
This is all true. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. The article needs to report the facts. The fact is that THECB does not seem to accept DETC. This issue cannot be resolved on Wikipedia. Wikipedia can only report on the verifiable facts as they develop within THECB, the DETC, the courts, the legislature, or wherever the facts lead us as they are reported on by reliable sources. TallMagic 18:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
A reference is added to the article to reflect the resolution in 2008 of legal action in Texas. The case ended in a consent degree in which Texas accepted the legality of CCU degrees to avoid having the state law overturned. An other reference to Texas in the article links to the current list of illegal institutions showing that California Coast University is not on it. Astrojed (talk) 03:34, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Some people have a penchant for reporting controversies which seem to discredit this nationally accredited school. The field of distance education is full of controversy. The situation is gradually improving but distance education is not as universally accepted as traditional "brick and mortar" education. There will be issues in this field that are larger than CCU. These should not be reported as if they only applied to CCU. This is an encyclopedia not a tabloid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.14.89 (talk) 23:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
'******************Please note - As of 7/24/08, THECB recognizes DETC, and CCU has not been on any Texas list for quite a while now'
Degrees awarded before the accreditation date are considered unaccredited. Unaccredited degrees may not be acceptable to some employers or other institutions. In some jurisdictions the use of unaccredited degree titles may be restricted or illegal, for example in the State of Texas. [1]
There seems to be an ongoing disagreement over the above text in the accreditation section. When there's a disagreement such as this it should be discussed on the talk page. So, here's where I propose discussing it.
Here's my opinion: I don't have a problem with the above text. The initial proposed text was too long and I felt applied undue weight to the previously unaccredited status. The above text is okay IMHO, though because CCU was unaccredited for many years and unaccredited degrees will still have some restrictions as the Texas THECB indicates. TallMagic 22:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Just to Clarify, as of 7/24/08, THECB officially recognizes DETC, and CCU is no longer on any kind of "Texas" list.
Just wanted to clarify. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.252.207 (talk) 19:05, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
The Texas test case went to court and was decided in favor of the CCU claimants.
Hebert, et al v. Shepard, et al Case Number: 08-50531 Filed: May 28, 2008 Court: U.S. Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit
Here’s the address of one of the lawyers who sued on behalf of CCU graduates.
Edward D. (Ed) Burbach eburbach@gardere.com
The case ended with a type of consent decree in which lawyers for Texas accepted the legality of CCU degrees in order to prevent the rest of the Texas law from being overturned in the federal court.
During the case it was discovered that Texas recognizes DETC as a legitimate accrediting agency. Astrojed (talk) 23:54, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I believe that CCU discontinued offering doctorate degrees as part of their DETC accreditation. Saying that CA allows CCU to offer doctorates doesn't make sense to me. CA academic license approval no longer applies and is irrelevant after official DETC accreditation was achieved. CA law that applies to academic institutions is different for accredited and unaccredited institutions. Therefore, it seems to me to be nothing more than a misleading sentence. That is why I have deleted that phrase twice from the article. If you disagree then please explain your rationale here. Thanks, TallMagic (talk) 19:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Since 2007 CCU has resumed offering Doctorates in Education after DETC received federal approval to accredit professional doctorate degrees. Astrojed (talk) 23:43, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
DEAC (DETC) is not authorized to accredit academic Ph.D. programs oriented to research but is authorized since 2010 to accredit professional doctorates such as D.Sc., Ed.D, and other doctorates oriented to professional practice. California approval still applies, but is now in a different agency with different practices and laws. For CCU the California state approval has been changed to agree with DEAC accreditation. In every state of USA the local state approval is necessary for legality. The states have each separately accepted the federally recognized accrediting agencies as acceptable evidence of legitimacy. Various states still approve a small number of unaccredited programs, but the cost has increased and the number of programs has decreased substantially.
CCU did discontinue offering doctorates to new students as part of their DETC accreditation, because DETC was not recognized at that time for doctorates by US Department of Education. Also the state approval was moved from Department of Education to Consumer Affairs Division which was not prepared to evaluate academic content. Astrojed (talk) 03:19, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
To TallMagic and others:
DETC-accredited and out-of-state schools operating in California have long been required to go through the California state-approval process. Only in-state regionally accredited schools, religious-exempt schools and perhaps schools with certain professional accreditations are not required to be state-approved. It should also be noted that the California state-approval process is currently in flux, as the Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education (the official regulatory body) was sunsetted in July 2007. State authorities apparently have until next year to form a new oversight body. In the meantime, such schools operating in California have signed an official agreement with the State to conform to the current standards.--Obi777 (talk) 16:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I added the fact that various news sources/groups/agencies once dubbed CCU a diploma mill. This part of its 35 year history and needs mentioned, along with famous graduates. BBiiis08 (talk) 01:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I added information on the HETA transfer alliance. I also removed references to the articles on John Pennington and the physicians. Both articles reference CCU as a diploma mill, which is unfounded, and one article stated that CCU sold degrees for a flat fee, which is a blatant lie. Both articles contradict and threaten Wikipedia's policy on including accurate information in their articles. This is especially important when information has been proven to be misleading or a flat out untruth. It's true that some CCU graduates have had trouble using their unaccredited degrees, so I left that section in. I'll try to find some accurate references to substantiate that claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exit167 (talk • contribs) 16:36, 22 December 2009
You state that nothing has been proven false as far as you know. However, nothing in the referenced articles have been proven to be true. So, should they really be referenced? I know about Wiki's verifiabilty policy, but I question whether the referenced sources are "reliable", based on their repeated misinformation. As another poster indicated above, it's clear these writers never did any investigation and obviously didn't read the GAO report. Plus, as you have stated above, the GAO found now wrongdoing. Yes it's true that grads before CCU's accreditation have had issues, but to continue to link references that state information that is not verifiable is wrong, IMO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exit167 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
I understand, thanks for taking another look at it. The lack of investigation by the journalists in the referenced articles paints a untrue picture of CCU. I guess it's up to the reader to find the real truth. Anyhow, I'm adding information on some of the academic partnerships that CCU has secured. They are both nationally and regionally accredited institutions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exit167 (talk • contribs) 21:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I removed some dead reference links and added new ones that properly reference the article facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exit167 (talk • contribs) 22:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I didn't remove the article reference. It is referenced twice it the same paragraph, so I added a new reference that I felt was better suited for the facts in that sentence, but kept second article reference where it should be. I also added a link to CHEA's website that lists CCU accreditation information, which substantiates DETC's accreditation status. I was trying to contribute, help improve the article, and add some good references about CCU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exit167 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I've been following this discussion and Exit167 is technically correct. Reference #1 has no bearing on Calif Coast Univ's accreditation. It seems to be a duplicate of reference #4. Reference #4 is correctly positioned, but #1 is not. It should refer to the accreditation. Therefore, I added the reference to the Council of Higher Education's site. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cannonlaw (talk • contribs) 23:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
I have added the GAO reference with only the facts (not spin) in tact (as I have done in the past, only to find the reference removed). At one point I did temporarily remove the GAO reference with the intention of "cleaning it up". (And many of my edits are minor).
It seems that someone tends to favor glowing descriptions of Pacific Western University while slinging mud on CCU, which has received DETC accreditation. (Someone likes to refer to PWU as accredited, which it is NOT). Someone likes to add "Magic Mill" and simple bio links with one's own negative spin, in addition to the accurate links. This annoys me since I do have a connection to CCU. But I will endeavor to be as fair as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmacw6 (talk • contribs)
Just to Clarify, as of 7/24/08, THECB officially recognizes DETC, and CCU is no longer on any kind of "Texas" list.
Just wanted to clarify. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.252.207 (talk) 19:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to upload the logo to the info box? Can anyone help with this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.12.201 (talk) 15:50, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
You can find the logo on their Facebook page, please help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.12.201 (talk) 15:53, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
The Federal government saw fit to mention CCU in two separate reports published by the General Accounting Office:
It's true that the information presented in each is the same, but they're two distinct reports. That the government saw fit to present information about CCU in two separate reports on diploma mills is relevant, and the repeated and ongoing effort that has been made to delete one or the other should not be continued. If that does continue, recourse to administrative intervention may be necessary. I have (again) reverted the most recent attempt to expunge this information. – OhioStandard (talk) 21:29, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi all,
I would like to add a section describing the university's educational approach, as I think this is one of its distinguishing characteristics. I had added the following but it was removed as a copyright violation (?). Please comment or even re-insert as acceptable / appropriate. Thanks. Fintor (talk) 07:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Fintor (talk) 07:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi, all. This article has often seen attempts to expunge negative information. Yesterday a Verizon IP from Westminster, CA, next door to Santa Ana, where the school is located, twice deleted well-sourced information that doesn't reflect well on the school. Other established users reverted that. Today, a new account, in its first edit, repeated that deletion, which I've just now reverted. I'd ask that editors who have this article watchlisted keep a close eye out for any similar attempts. Thanks, – OhioStandard (talk) 02:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I reverted this article back to it's previous version. The last edit was a blantant, one-sided view, based on CCU's past history, even maing the effort to reference articles that were originally posted almost 10 years ago. The current references and history have been clear, and are listed accordingly in the article. This last poster obviously was someone who was determined to harm CCU's current reputation. I encourage the mods to watch this article very closely. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exit167 (talk • contribs) 18:26, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
State approval was the original way colleges and universities were legitimized. Most of the world still operates that way including famous universities in developed countries. Non profit accrediting agencies have become the norm in USA, but not overseas. Starting in the 1920's smaller states began the movement to unload their responsibility for regulating higher education. Larger state governments like California were able to continue the state approval process in addition to acceptance of non profit regional accreditation and specialized accreditation of professions. Foreign students may find more value in state approval than in regional accreditation. In USA the colleges joined together and accredited them selves.
Accreditation is private, non profit, and voluntary but has become expected in USA and mandatory in some situations. State approval is mandatory in foreign countries. CCU has always had state approval of it's academic programs which is the highest of three categories in California college approval system. Doctor John Bear gave a favorable description of CCU in his book although John Bear was associated with a competing distance learning institution at the time.
CCU has a history of being criticized in public, but winning court cases about academic legitimacy. With DETC accreditation CCU has improved it's situation, but also raised the cost of tuition for students at a time when other colleges are being accused of price fixing with the aid of accrediting agencies. Astrojed (talk) 00:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on California Coast University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
((dead link))
tag to https://requests.stanford.edu/requests/new?ckey=464506¤t_loc=STACKS&home_lib=SAL3&home_loc=STACKSWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:38, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on California Coast University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:30, 17 September 2017 (UTC)