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Feel free to move this to a better title and fix the redirects. --Henrygb 3 July 2005 18:42 (UTC)
In your article Gaston, comte d'Eu, you wrote Another of his great-grandsons, Duarte Pio, Duke of Braganza is the current presumptive heir to the throne of Portugal Please note that Duarte Pio is not Gaston's grat-grandson and he is of a different branch of the House of Braganca. Moreover, the Brazilian branch of the House of Braganca has no rights to the Portuguese Throne. Please correct the error, and for genealogical refrence you can see: http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Portuguese_Royal_Family.htm mirekmarut
D. Duarte Pio, Duke of of Braganza is the son of D. Duarte Nuno , Duke of Braganza and the Brazilian Princess Francisca of Orleans-Braganza . She was the daughter of Prince D. Pedro de Alcantara, the eldest son of Gaston of Orleans, Comte d`Eu , and Princess Isabel of Orleans-Braganza. Therefore, D. Duarte is indeed a Great-grandson of Princess Isabel and Gaston de Orleans, therefore a descendant of both Brazilian and Portuguese branches of the Braganzas, and also, a claimant to the Portuguese throne. Regarding the Count of Eu,and his position in the Royal Orleans family, by the time they were back to Europe after the coulp in Brazil, there was a negotiation between he and his family, and it was established that he and his present and future line would have full rights to the French throne, by the Orleans branch.
User Fernandoe started to impose his point of view in WP:EN just like he has been doing in WP:PT: moving a mass of articles and editing their content, with no discussion and no reference, not aiming a consensus.
In special, he believes that nobles, even those who lived during the XIX century, had surnames, in a time that even commons did not have it (the current concept of a "surname" is very recent, developed with the consolidation of civic registers). Apart from that, he does not have a clear understanding of the Iberic title of "Dom", compelling many of us to revert his editions (not to say his careless English).
Articles that were edited in order to impose his point of view:
No matter if one agrees or not with that, it is not allowed to force one's point of view, ignoring the contributions of many other editors. Please, I ask the opinion of other editors, trying to avoid a mass war editing here. Thank you all very much. --Tonyjeff (talk) 16:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Comment as requested by another user whom I did not know before: Nobles did not have surnames in a time when even commons did not have them. The current concept of a legal surname is very recent, developed with the creation of (1) official civic registers, (2) legislation regarding them and (3) officially regulated spelling. Legitimate royals (i.e. who have not lost their legitimacy) belong to officially named dynasties, and often have epithets, but have never had surnames. These statements of fact (as argued above, though worded a bit differently) are perfectly accurate. If the edits complained about (which I am sorry I am unable to study at length at this time) contain any POV-pushing contrary to these facts, or POV-pushing of any kind that is not reliably sourced, that should be removed. If the user complained about indulges in very extensive POV-pushing of that kind, and/or in extensive editing where sufficiently incomprehensible language is used on en.WP, he/she should be warned or blocked. SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
You are surprised to hear about 19th-century "surnames"? Please take a look at the article about Joan the Lame - an editor claims that de France was the surname of 14th-century French princesses and that therefore referring to them as "[Name] of France" is incorrect. But I wouldn't like to discuss that when the editor is not aware of the discussion. Just don't be so surprised. Surtsicna (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
The questioned editor here is in fact aware of this discussion as per user's talk page.
Re: latest 2-part comment in very good faith: there have long been perfectly clear established facts about all this in very reliable literature that need no further discussion nor any reevaluation by Wikipedia. I go by Burke's and Debrett's in English. Respectfully suggest we all save ourselves the trouble, and miles and miles of unending discussion, by relying on such experts and their insurpassable genealogical reports, and correct everything to the contrary even to where articles may need to be mechanically protected from arbitrary POV-pushing that cannot be substantiated with sources anywhere near as reliable. Royalty with subjects are royals, nothing less - no surnames ever. Royalty without are former royals, nothing more. The latter in modern times have surnames. Before then, nobody did. SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Tony, you are being unfair on me. Dear users, I'm not a vandal that started doing vandalism in some articles of royals at wikipédia English, and I never had this tipe of behavior at Wikipédia Lusófona(WP:PT). Sorry, I was with another importants commitments, and because of they, I wasn't reading this important talk. But now, I have time to start show my arguments for my changes. My intention is help Wikipédia, and do a "good work" here, ever abideing the true history. I don't want to change more the articles that user Tonyjeff mentioned, but I'm just adding the alleged lastnames, because I saw in some history books and including in the farewall letter of Emperor Pedro I, when he abdicated to the imperial throne of Brazil, he writed: "12 de abril de 1831, D. Pedro de Alcântara de Bragança e Bourbon". Wasn't me who writed this letter, was the Brazilian Emperor, Pedro I( of Braganza and Bourbon).
About the title of Dom, we can see in the talk of Pedro II of Brazils article, when I prove why just the royals and close relatives of them are authorized to use this title. Here: Talk:Pedro II of Brazil.
I apologize again, because I was with some commitments... but now, I'm ready to show my arguments for my changes. Thank you all. Sincerely, --Fernandoe (talk) 03:41, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Tonyjeff, I think that you and Lecen are the same person. Because in instantly he began to hate me... About your argument... I saw that some users were calling me to this talk, but I wasn't having time to write here and show my arguments. Now, I show my arguments and you don't have any argument for them... Because, they(my arguments) are true, I show them abideing the history. We just have to abide the history... The wikipedia must be edit by the true. --Fernandoe (talk) 03:47, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
PS: The "alleged lastnames" that I talked, are the names of those Royal Houses or Duchy Houses, County Houses and so on. We can say that they hadn't lastnmes, but they had the names of the Royal houses of them, in those names. --Fernandoe (talk) 03:54, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
Fernandoe, it looks like you don't respond to the comments left in your talk page, User talk:Fernandoe. Please do. - Altenmann >t 05:51, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
It's the first time I see the Count of Eu as a sort of "antislavery paladin". If this claim is not substantiated with source references, I'll remove it. dariopy (talk) 23:15, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if someone pays any attention to this article but I thought it would be at polite to leave a warning that I am improving it. Any help, suggestions, comments will be very appreciated. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 20:58, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Comment. I see that the article at present mentions that the title of the Count of Eu in Brazil was "His Imperial Highness Dom Gastão, Prince Imperial consort of Brazil". There is currently no reference or source to back that information up. I don't know if this part of the article was included by you, Lecen, or if it was already there when you started your improvements (there appears to be still a work in progress). Anyway, years ago I read in monarchist websites linked to the Imperial Family what a mistake it was that D. Pedro II never approved Brazilian titles for Gaston, and that he, as a male, kept using his French titles even when married to the Brazilian Princess Imperial. That kind of anectotal information is backed up by official State documents, such as the Atas do Conselho de Estado (Acts of the Council of State), that always make reference to Gaston as "His Royal Highness the Count of Eu". That is, even after being raised to the Brazilian Council of State as husband of the heiress to the Throne, Gaston was still styled with his French titles. See the following examplei n the documents of the Council of Sate: "Aos cinco dias do mês de dezembro do ano de Nosso Senhor Jesus Cristo de mil oitocentos e oitenta e cinco às onze horas do dia na Imperial Quinta da Boa Vista, bairro de São Cristovão desta cidade de São Sebastião do Rio de Janeiro, reuniu-se o Conselho de Estado Pleno sob a Presidência do Muito Alto e Muito Poderoso Senhor Dom Pedro II, Imperador Constitucional e Defensor Perpétuo do Brasil, estando presentes os Conselheiros de Estado Sua Alteza Real o Senhor Conde d’Eu, Visconde de Muritiba, Paulino José Soares de Sousa, Joaquim Raimundo de Lamare (...)["http://www.senado.gov.br/publicacoes/anais/pdf/ACE/ATAS12-Terceiro_Conselho_de_Estado_1884-1889.pdf] (I highlighted the relevant passage). The acts of the Council of State can be found in the link provided (pdf files in the website of the Brazilian Senate, there are several acts in one single file, in cronological order). So, as you can see from the raw official documents provided in the link above, Gastão was titled "His Royal Highness" and not "Imperial Highness", and he used the title of "The Lord Count of Eu" (o Senhor Conde d'Eu) and not the title of "Prince Imperial Consort". Under the Constitution, he would become Emperor Consort if his wife came to the Throne (because they had children), but, while she was only the heiress presumptive, there was no title of "Prince Imperial Consort" for him. The official documents appear to back that up. As a male, the general rule that he did not take titles from his wife was adhered to. Unless you have other sources that show that the situation regarding titles was in fact more complex... Accordingly, I made an alteration to the article, reflecting the title of the Count of Eu as it was actually used in Brazil. --Antonio Basto (talk) 19:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
I updated the Exile and Return to Brazil and death sections by translating the copy from the official French Wikipedia page Gaston_d'Orléans_(1842-1922) I think this was due for a while ;) Jccoelho99 (talk) 03:55, 20 September 2013 (UTC)