![]() | This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors |
At the end of the article schematics of the drive are given showing what connects to what. The Camry hybrid does not conform to any of these schematics. In particular it uses two gears and the R gears are connected and the output comes from the R gear. The motor goes into S on the second gear. C on the second gear is held still. See http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/922327-5ktfCi/922327.PDF.
I agree with other peoples comments that for many people a definition of S, C, and R would be good.
Hlovatt (talk) 04:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm confused over the figures illustrating the HSD. None of the figures have legends. What do the different labels mean? (70.229.84.73 21:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)), ADM
This article desperately needs a figure and a more consistent explanation.
It seems like this article should be broken up further. The performance aspects of the Hybrid Synergy Drive article center on the Prius. The Highlander (AKA Kluger) and the Lexus offer superior performance compared to the non-hybrid versions. They accelerate quicker 0-60, don't have limited top speed when the battery is low, dramatically better mid-cruise acceleration, and better MPG.
The article states: "Reverse gear: There is no reverse gear as in a conventional gearbox: the computer feeds negative voltage to MG2, applying negative torque to the wheels."
Both MG1 and MG2 are permanent magnet AC motors. They aren't fed "negative voltage" to reverse the torque. It should read "reverse phase sequence is applied to MG2" Wefoij (talk) 05:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Why use MG-T and MG-S here? Isn't that just being deliberately perverse, given that this article is specifically discussing Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive, and they use the names MG1 and MG2? --KJBracey 22:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
I used MG-T and MG-S in the original write-up because they're more mnemonic (for "torque" and "speed") than MG-1 and MG-2; my intent was to make the text easier to understand to the casual reader. (I own one of the darned things and I always forget which is which -- how can a casual reader expect to remember?) If you feel strongly about it, go ahead and change it -- thanks for asking first, though. zowie 23:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Given that this section is inherently about hybrid versions, from the heading, personally I prefer generic vehicle names, rather than the specific versions. Looks neater, and specific versions will get messier when we get vehicles with more than one hybrid variant. Also "Toyota Camry is available with HSD" is a bit less of a tautology than "Toyota Camry Hybrid is available with HSD". Does this make sense? --KJBracey 06:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Should the stated release dates of these cars be the model year (MY) or the actual year they were or will be released? Currently it's showing actual year of release. CGameProgrammer 15:16, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
It would be useful if a knowledgeable person could update this article to include recent Toyota vehicles using HSD, such as the 2013 Avalon. Halberstadt (talk) 23:28, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Originally, someone claimed the Escape Hybrid's real-world mileage of 28-32 was "comparable to a conventional four-cylinder SUV such as the Honda CRV". This is B.S. A quick check at fueleconomy.gov shows the CR-V's real-world numbers at 20-24 for all versions (2WD, 4WD, manual, automatic) while the Escape Hybrid averages between 28-34. Probably a case of comparing real-world numbers of one car to EPA estimates of another. The Escape Hybrid is, in fact, the most fuel-efficient SUV in existence, as far as I am aware. Also it incorrectly stated Ford licensed HSD from Toyota, which isn't accurate. Ford developed their own technology but it was nearly identical to HSD so they needed a license from Toyota. CGameProgrammer 17:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
In 2008, the Corolla will also have a HSD hybrid version. [citation needed].
Moved from page, there is no evidence for this. However, Toyota will eventually release a version, as stated in their model refresh plans. Just a matter of time, but it is speculation at this point and I have moved it here for that reason.
--Ng.j 04:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
"The Toyota Prius has decent, but not sport-car-like, acceleration but has extremely high mileage for a mid sized four-door sedan: 45 mpg (US) is typical of brief city jaunts; 55 mpg is not uncommon, especially for extended drives (which allows the engine to warm up fully). This is noticeably less than twice the fuel efficiency of a similarly equipped four-door sedan with a conventional power train. Not all of the extra efficiency of the Prius is due to the HSD system [...]"
I don't quite understand the bolded sentence. It seems like it's trying to state the fact that 45city/55highway is less than two times the fuel economy of similar, but conventionally powered, vehicles. However, saying "noticeably less than twice" has more of a negative connotation to it while "slightly less than twice" seems more neutral. Isn't average gas mileage for similar, conventional sedans something like 25city/30highway? That makes a difference of five (5) mpg per category (according to the 2x factor), which doesn't seem worthy of "noticeably". Does anyone else have thoughts on this or care to do some additional research? --Godfoster 00:29, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the way it is phrased now is not neutral. Doing a little bit more research on the EPA's fueleconomy.gov shows that the Prius, on the pre-2008 test cycle, scored 60 city, 51 highway, 55 combined. For 2008, the test cycle has changed, and the Prius scores 48 city, 45 highway, 46 combined. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?salesArea=all In comparison, sedans like the conventional 4 cyl Honda Accord score 21 city, 31 hwy, 25 combined on the 2008 cycle. The conventional 4 cyl Toyota Camry scores 21 city 30 hwy, 24 combined. Smaller cars like the Corolla and the Civic score closer to the Prius at 26/35/29 and 25/36/29 respectively.
For the city measure, the Prius's mileage is very close to or exceeding twice the mileage of similarly sized cars. On the highway, the Prius's advantage is approximately 50%. I propose the section you mentioned be modified to reflect this research. LaughingMan11 04:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
The article states that '... HSD "neutral gear" is achieved by turning the engine off ...'. I don't think this is accurate, though my knowledge comes from instrumentation and discussion of the NHW11 Prius, before Toyota started calling the powertrain the "HSD". In that car, the main thing that happens when you put the mode selector in N is that the motor/generator drive electronics is (usually) disabled. This prevents torque from being applied to the wheels from either the engine or the motor generators themselves. In some circumstances, the engine will still run, mainly to prevent MG2 MG1 from spinning excessively fast. This information comes from Toyota's "New Car Features" publication, is accepted in discussion groups and I have personally verified it in an instrumented MY 2001 Prius. Can anyone state positively that there the HSD operates in a different manner?--GrahamDavies 19:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
With deep respect for Graham, I believe it's MG1 that has to be rpm limited.Shannock9 (talk) 08:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Yes, thanks for picking this up. Correction made. GrahamDavies (talk) 11:31, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Image:Lexus hybrid logo.GIF is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 16:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Could we get a few words about how big the engine is (displacement) and it's horsepower rating, and the the horsepower ratings of the electric motors? physical dimensions might be interesting too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.95.189 (talk) 00:26, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
An image of what appears to be a Toyota Super CVT-i transmission has been included in this article. This is not a component of the HSD, not does the HSD use the variable diameter pulley mechanism that that transmission uses.
The HSD does not actually have a CVT in it at all, it's the power split device that allows the HSD to *act* like a CVT.
Suggest this image should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grs1969 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
The article is misleading. It states the planetary gear (power spitter) acts as a CVT. Erm not really. A conventional CVT is in-line. That is, in a conventional setup the transmission is between the engine and wheels, shifting ratios to suit. It is in-line, in series: engine -> transmission -> wheels. The Prius presents to the wheels an electric motor - electric motors do not not require an interim in-line (in series) transmission as the torque delivery is far superior than an IC engine. How it presents to the wheels, what they think is an electric motor by using an IC engine and electric motor, is to split the power between them. The IC engine can deliver anything from 0 to 100% of power and the same for the electric motor - or anything along the 1-100 line, such as 60% electric motor and 40% IC engine. The Power Splitter (the so-called CVT) act in a parallel fashion - between the two motors to make them act as one motor at the output. Think of the two motors as "one" motor in one package, with the Power Splitter combining the output of the two of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.93.232 (talk) 21:54, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Kickbacks to Wiki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.9.58.69 (talk) 23:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
But I can personally vouch for the rough behavior described at the end of the Performance section:
I owned two different Priuses(sp?), a 2005 and a 2006 model, which aren't even the very early models. I made a cross country move from the East Coast to Seattle in the first, and another from Seattle back to the East Coast in the second. In both cases, while crossing the Rockies, I had to climb a particularly tough slope at least once, with a car stuffed to the brim with my stuff (probably the equivalent weight of a driver plus 3-4 passengers), and in the East to West move, I had a second passenger to boot. I was going 84 MPH from South Dakota through Montana whenever I could (tires are rated for 85, and I was sticking to 9 miles over the 75 MPH speed limit to limit the damage if I got a ticket). But on a particularly long uphill slope heading west in Wyoming, I got about halfway up the mountain at that speed (using cruise control) before the battery ran out. The instant the battery drained, I dropped to about 50 MPH, and even flooring the accelerator manually I couldn't get above 54-56 MPH until I reached the top of the mountain a couple minutes later. On the way back, I had a similar experience on a long upward slope (not quite a mountain) in Montana, but luckily, the problem only kicked in about 10 seconds from where the slope leveled off and began to go down again, so it wasn't a big issue. In both cases I was traveling in May; the vent was on but not the AC, as the temperature in the mountains was in the high 50s to low 70s range.
Like I said, this isn't a proper citation, but even on a later model Prius (can't say for the very latest model), draining the battery is a possibility and has a *very* noticeable effect on performance. —ShadowRanger (talk|stalk) 17:23, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
From memory the NHW11 motors are rated by Toyota at 33kW and the ICE at 76kW. The correct values (or values for a newer model) could easily be cited to support an added phrase such as "because the max power drops by a third".
We don't have those kind of climbs in the UK. My experience is that with both power sources operating it drives like a high spec Golf. With battery depleted it drives like an old beetle. Shannock9 (talk) 08:53, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe this is accurate. This might be the best speed (not necessarily with respect to thermodynamic efficiency) for an Atkinson Cycle engine in a hybrid, but a typical ICE in a non-hybrid vehicle is more thermodynamically efficient at much higher RPMs-this is from the "Engine Efficiency" article:
"Engine efficiency peaks in most applications at around 75% of rated engine power, which is also the range of greatest engine torque (e.g. in most modern passenger automobile engines with a redline of about 6,000 RPM, maximum torque is obtained at about 4,500 RPM, and maximum engine power is obtained at about 6,000 RPM). At all other combinations of engine speed and torque, the thermal efficiency is less than this maximum.”
Perhaps the existing sentence is too vague or broad to begin with.
VTEC1981 (talk) 07:04, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 9 external links on Hybrid Synergy Drive. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:35, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm confused by this sentence:
Is MG1 connected to the wheels? I thought MG1 sits between engine and battery/MG2. If this sentence is correct as written, then this mode of operation is missing from the "Power flows" section in the article. AxelBoldt (talk) 18:39, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Hybrid Synergy Drive. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:46, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
if someone can find sale figs outside the US as well
Toyota Prius Liftback | Lexus RX | Toyota Highlander | Toyota Camry | Lexus GS | Lexus LS | Lexus HS | Lexus CT | Toyota Prius c | Toyota Prius V | Lexus ES | Toyota Avalon | Lexus NX | Toyota RAV4 | Lexus LC | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2000 | 5,562 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2001 | 15,556 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2002 | 20,119 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2003 | 24,600 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2004 | 53,991 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2005 | 107,897 | 20,674 | 17,989 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2006 | 106,971 | 20,161 | 31,485 | 31,341 | 1,784 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2007 | 181,221 | 17,291 | 22,052 | 54,477 | 1,645 | 937 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2008 | 158,574 | — | — | 46,272 | 678 | 907 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2009 | 139,682 | — | — | 22,887 | 469 | 258 | 6,699 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2010 | 140,928 | — | — | 14,587 | 305 | 129 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2011 | 136,463 | — | — | 9,241 | 282 | 84 | — | 14,381 | — | — | — | — | — | — | — |
2012 | — | — | — | 45,656 | 615 | 54 | — | — | 30,838 | 28,450 | 7,027 | 747 | — | — | — |
2013 | — | — | — | 44,448 | 522 | 115 | — | — | — | — | 16,562 | 16,468 | — | — | — |
2014 | — | — | — | 39,515 | 183 | 65 | — | — | — | — | 14,837 | 17,048 | 354 | — | — |
2015 | — | — | — | 30,640 | 91 | 47 | — | — | — | — | 11,241 | 11,956 | — | 1,494 | — |
2016 | 98,863 | 8,561 | 5,976 | 22,227 | 70 | 40 | — | — | — | — | 7,645 | 8,451 | — | 45,070 | — |
2017 | 65,631 | 8,568 | 16,864 | 20,985 | 50 | — | — | — | — | — | 5,394 | 4,990 | — | 50,559 | 119 |