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Does anyone have the coordinates of the line? SDSpivey (talk) 23:08, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
I've added a paragraph to clarify the purpose of the line, before we get into travel anomalies:
Which makes this paragraph almost superfluous:
--Hugh7 (talk) 20:07, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Submitted by drs (talk) 13:47, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
The first Christian Missionaries: Chaplain Crawford of the United States Navy, arriving at Samoa, found that the missionaries who first introduced Christianity there, had forgotten to change their reckoning when they crossed the line, and were keeping the " Christian Sabbath" (Sunday) on Saturday.[1]
The Alaskan Transfer: In the February, 1869 edition of the Overland monthly and Out West magazine C. Delavan Bloodgood describes the Alaska transfer event and surrounding circumstances. This is a primary source; a rich account of those times.[2]
The 1884 Prime Meridian Conference: Shelley et al use two pages to describe the Prime Meridian Conference of 1884. They cites Protocols of the Proceedings, 1884.[3][4]
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The lede currently says
Likewise, paragraph 4 of the Geography section says
But am I correct that crossing the dateline also moves you into a different time zone? If so, then when crossing it while eastbound one sets the clock back 24 hours because of the dateline but simultaneously sets the clock forward one hour because of the time zone change. So it's misleadingly incomplete to say A traveler crossing the IDL eastbound subtracts one day, or 24 hours; and to say that Crossing the IDL westbound results in 24 hours being added, advancing the calendar date by one day is incomplete in its first part and sometimes wrong in its second part -- e.g. if you cross it westbound from, say, a time of 12:30 AM Wednesday, the net effect on the clock/calendar is plus 24 hours minus 1 hour = +23 hours, so your new time/date is 11:30PM on (still) Wednesday. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Your definition of time zone is certainly reasonable. But I think it was pretty clear in this thread that the discussion was about whether you change your clock when you cross the dateline. Duoduoduo (talk) 22:39, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
The article states 'The nautical date line, which is not the same as the International Date Line, is a de jure construction determined by international agreement. It is the result of the 1917 Anglo-French Conference on Time-keeping at Sea, which recommended that all ships, both military and civilian, adopt hourly standard time zones on the high seas.' Does anyone know what the rule is for time on aircraft? Eg suppose that a plane
(Adjust to whatever the normal duration of such a flight is).
And suppose that a passenger dies halfway through the flight. Does the death certificate show the death on
Is it relevant which side of 180' the plane was on at the time? Or in which country the plane is registered?
Alekksandr (talk) 22:47, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
It has been argued [1] [2] that the International Date Line is a tool of Satan intended to disrupt the correct observation of the Sabbath. I find this highly amusing, but I don't know whether it's appropriate for the main article. Jruderman 10:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I have copy edited the article to make it easier to read. Please check that no oversimplifications or errors have been introduced. Michael Glass (talk) 10:53, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
When you first learn physics, they teach you concepts as if relativity didn't exist--only then do they introduce relativity. Can someone who genuinely understands this concept please explain it as if Tonga, etc. didn't exist and only then introduce it and the other exceptions? I think I'm barely starting to understand but it's still really confusing to me. Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 17:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
The modern IDL move for Samoan Islands and Tokelau occurred in 2011, whereas the IDL move for Eastern Kiribati occurred in 1995. Therefore, let's move the "Samoan Islands and Tokelau" section after "Eastern Kiribati" section. Wideangle (talk) 05:36, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
In the second paragraph, the abbreviation UTC is used but is not defined. 87.112.237.138 (talk) 16:21, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Under the "Christianity" section, the first paragraph reads:
Generally, the Christian calendar follows the legal calendar, and Christian churches recognize the authority of the IDL. However, one important issue exists in some Orthodox countries where the Julian calendar is followed for religious purposes, but the Gregorian calendar for civilian purposes. The two calendars have the same weekdays, so the main issue is when to celebrate Easter, Christmas, and other main holidays.
The material in bold, which is everything in the paragraph after the first sentence, has nothing to do with the Date Line and should be removed.
Ignoring the fact there is no such thing as an "Orthodox country" -- the same problem arises in countries where Orthodox Christians are a minority as well as those in which they are a majority -- the question of when Orthodox Churches shall celebrate Easter, Christmas, and so on, is solely an issue for the church calendar. Easter might be on this Sunday or it might be on that Sunday, but it will always be on Sunday. The Date Line has absolutely nothing to do with which Sunday shall be Easter.
The only question that might arise is whether two different countries near to each other but on opposite sides of the Date Line - such as Samoa and American Samoa - were actually observing Easter Sunday on Sunday. This issue would apply to all Christians, not just Orthodox ones.
To wit:
When it is Sunday in Samoa, it is Saturday in American Samoa; and when it is Sunday in American Samoa, it is Monday in Samoa. Thus, Christians in American Samoa will always observe Easter Sunday a day after Christians in Samoa observe Easter Sunday. Does that mean that Samoans "really" celebrate Easter on Saturday (because their Sunday is Saturday in American Samoa); or does it mean that American Samoans "really" celebrate Easter on Monday (because their Sunday is Monday in Samoa)? The settled answer is that all Christians who celebrate Easter, wherever they are in the world, celebrate Easter on Sunday as that day falls in countries located either side of the Date Line.
Likewise, all Christians who celebrate Christmas do so on 25 December. It might be 25 December according to the Gregorian Calendar (which is 12 December on the Julian Calendar) or it might be 25 December on the Julian Calendar (which is 7 January on the Gregorian Calendar). But whichever calendar is used, Christmas will always be 25 December as that date falls in countries on either side of the Date Line.
The Date Line simply plays no role whatsoever in the calendaring of dates for Orthodox Christian holidays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.162.218.153 (talk) 19:57, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning the rather interesting events among SDA's on Samoa when it switched back across the date line in 2011? A six day week among Seventh Day Adventists caused quite a stir and a rift, as you can imagine.Farsight001 (talk) 00:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't think it is quite right to describe the line as "imaginary." Imaginary things don't exist, whereas the International Date Line does. Obviously it exists as an artificial human construct and not a physical entity - but then so do many national and state boundaries, which are real enough in human affairs. How about replacing "imaginary" with "notional"? ("The International Date Line (IDL) is a notional line of navigation on the surface of the Earth....") 85.255.233.212 (talk) 20:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
The current article does a good job presenting the complex quirky details of the IDL -- but it is very difficult for a new reader to figure out the underlying concepts behind these details.
The most important thing about the IDL is not that travelers who cross the line gain or lose one calendar date. The most important concept behind this line is that it is the boundary between extreme-plus and extreme-minus time zones, and what that implies for dates in different places. It is quite a mental challenge to grasp these basic concepts.
The basic truth is that, conceptually, at 0:00 UTC (midnight in London) the new date starts there, and has already come to half of the globe -- but half of the globe still has the old date. This situation gradually shifts over the next 12 hours. At 12:00 UTC (noon in London) the entire globe would have the same date (if things were maximally simple). The reader needs this basic concept as a framework to add the additional quirks.
The first quirk is that the above simplification would apply if the world were divided into 24 simple time zones, -12 through +11, with the IDL on the boundary between -12 and +11. Then at 12:00 UTC, for one hour, the whole globe would have the same date. However, the antimeridian conceptually is drawn right down the middle of a time zone, just like the zero reference at Greenwich should be right in the middle of that time zone. So, conceptually there are 25 simple time/date zones, from -12 to +12, and at 12:00 UTC, for one hour, the whole globe would have the same date -- except that there would be a sliver of +12 that would already have the next date.
The existence of +12 is thus a complication -- but has the advantage that if the IDL is mostly a boundary between -12 and +12, the time/date difference across that line is 24 hours, so the difference is conveniently exactly one day, with no difference in clock time. But the many quirky details of the real IDL create many more complicated discontinuities.
In reality, we not only have -12 to +12 time zones, but also +12-3/4, +13 and +14. Thus, in reality, at 12:00 UTC (noon in London) there are two dates somewhere, because almost all the globe has one date, but the next date has started in a few places. And we continue to have two dates somewhere, passing 0:00 UTC (midnight in London) when the globe is split about in half by the two dates -- until 10:00 UTC, when the old date is almost over everywhere, but the next date has already started in a few places, so for the next two hours there are actually a total of three dates on the globe.-71.174.190.122 (talk) 15:38, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
The article quotes 3 modern newspapers in giving that date of transition as 1892, but the IANA time zone database [3] states that it occurred in 1879 referencing a source that references a source from 1883:
Howse [citing Derek Howse, Greenwich time and longitude, Philip Wilson Publishers (1997)] writes (p 153, citing p 10 of the 1883-11-18 New York Herald) that in 1879 the King of Samoa decided to change "the date in his kingdom from the Antipodean to the American system, ordaining - by a masterpiece of diplomatic flattery - that the Fourth of July should be celebrated twice in that year."
If the existence of that statement in the 1883 New York Herald can be confirmed, then it is almost certain that the date of that transition was not in 1892, but 1879. 24.51.171.231 (talk) 22:28, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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From the first sentence: "The International Date Line (IDL) is an imaginary line of navigation". How is it a line of navigation? That doesn't seem accurate. I doubt that any vessels (ships or planes) actually use it to navigate. I propose removing "of navigation". Omc (talk) 00:06, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
It would be useful to have some indication on which entities are reputable source for the current definition, if any. For example there appears to be a discrepancy between PacIOOS' definition and what Google Maps displays. This is partly based on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBppb2quqkE Ajmasz (talk) 16:15, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Some more searching on PacIOOS leads me to https://www.pacioos.hawaii.edu/voyager/info/international_date_line.html , which risks being a bit of cyclic definition, in noting "The precise location of the IDL is not fixed by any international law, treaty, or agreement. As a result, various maps and atlases will display it differently (see some examples). We have used the same IDL displayed by Wikipedia". I would imagine the best definition we can have is identifying the time zone selected by each island nation and then drawing the best line possible? Whatever the case is, I feel it would be useful for this to be covered in the actual entry Ajmasz (talk) 16:20, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
In the 2nd to last paragraph of the 'Description' section, it states that (after passing between Samoa and American Samoa) the "IDL follows the 165°W meridian": I believe this should be the 172.5°W meridian. I would like some agreement with this before changing the article. Please comment, anyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jauntymcd (talk • contribs) 00:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
The current page refers to national time zones as "de facto" and not "de jure". This contradicts any use of the terms that I have ever seen. "De jure" means "by law", and nearly all time zones are established by law (a very few, like Eucla in Australia, are de facto). In conjunction with the IDL this sounds Just Plain Wrong. Can anybody point to references that claim that national legislated time zones are de facto? Otherwise the section needs reworking. Groogle (talk) 01:28, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
A part of Kiribati is in UTC+14:00 exactly one day ahead of Hawaii which uses UTC-10:00.
Current UTC-10:00 (2024-06-23T12:10 UTC−10:00 [refresh])
Current UTC+14:00 (2024-06-24T12:10 UTC+14:00 [refresh])
UTC+13:00 and UTC+14:00 were created in 1995, they should create a UTC+15:00 but they haven't gotten to it or is it too far?
Also where is UTC-09:00 in effect between the second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November?
--2605:A000:1103:55F:587D:8797:F6B9:B2A (talk) 20:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
If going west, add a day. If going east, subtract a day. The third and fourth sentences of this article say the opposite and are wrong. 2601:644:8E7F:3F50:F4AB:E044:968C:E9A2 (talk) 05:49, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
I am a children's author working on a book that will include information about the IDL and time zones. I'm looking for an expert in the field that I could talk to and who might serve as a source for my work. Please leave a reply here. Thank you. R.L. Sanders 23.251.65.249 (talk) 13:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)