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One problem with this article is that it is quite obviously written by a Bulgarian.
Don't misunderstand me: I love Bulgaria and Bulgarians. But since this is an English "encyclopedia", it's supposed to be written in standard English. The article is full of non-idiomatic phrases and word usages, not to mention random and non-standard punctuation. I've started cleaning it up. Plus, there's a little too much "chamber of commerce" type promotion and over-flowery language used to describe things here. ==ILike2BeAnonymous 18:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know in what year Plovdiv was founded? If so please add the year to the article.--Moosh88 02:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm hoping that somebody who lives in Plovdiv could help with this — I've created a stub on Captain Aleksandr Burago, and it would be great to have a photo of the monument in Plovdiv for the Wikipedia article. Also, could somebody please help exacting his first name — some references suggest that he might be Aleksandr and not Constantin? Please respond over at Talk:Aleksandr Burago. TIA. --BACbKA 12:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
The population of Plovdiv's metro area is bigger than 400 000 I don't know who changed it but it will be good if shows a source. A more precise number is listed in the operational programme " Regional Development" 2007-2013 created by the Ministry of regional Developments and Public Works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avidius (talk • contribs) 16:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I have updated the population figures according to a more reliable source. This source is also used as reference for the population of other Bulgarian cities e.g. Varna. Avidius (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
The article (http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/plovdiv.htm) is extremely biased. First of all Plovdiv WAS NOT 125,000 in 1878 - this is a grave overestimation - if there were an exodus of 90,000 people, this would have been recorded by the western media... None of this happened. The western media however DID RECORD the massacres in nearby Batak in 1876, so it is not fair to say that it was not interested in the region. The article may mention historical thruth, but it also wrongfully accuses and humiliates the current christian population of the city... I thought that this is an encylopedia, and not a religious propaganda machine...
Further on, the link cites incorrect population numbers - there are not 60,000 Turks + 30,000 muslim Romas in Plovdiv - the data from the last official census (2001) states 60,000 muslims for the ENTIRE PLOVDIV PROVINCE. Plovdiv Province has a population of over 700,000 (please see http://www.nsi.bg/Census_e/Census_e.htm). These incorrect numbers in the 'artcle' further diminish its historical significance - the author does not provide us with correct information for today's demographics of the city, and I do not see how he can be trusted about events that happened 130 years ago... In addition to that, the article states 'formerly insignificant town which had flowered under the aegis of the Sultan and the Islamic economic system' - this is extremely incorrect - Plovdiv was a major centre in the Roman empire. In the Roman times Plovdiv was a capital of Thrace province, and one of the biggest cities in the peninsula. In the Middle ages the city was (among with Constantinople and Tessaloniki) one of the most important centres in the region! How come this can be underestimated! I believe that the article creates a wrongful impression that the city thrived ONLY when it was part of the Ottoman empire. In addition, the author states in the second paragraph that the Muslim and Jewish population of the city fled after Plovdiv was taken by the Russians - this is not true. Bulgaria was one of the few countreis that saved its Jewish population in WWII, and it has also preserved its Muslim population (despite the disgusting attempts of the communists to destroy religion in the country), and I do not see how the Bulgarian population would have started massacres in 1878.
I have nothing against adding a link that discusses the muslim connections of the city, but this is just outragious. The article does state some truths about the Communist rule, but most of the other stuff in there is extremely twisted. Cnn lies 02:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
+ the user that constantly adds this is well into all sorts of propaganda --Laveol 14:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
The link has just been reinserted, so the issue is still with us. Let me try to take this discussion in a slightly different direction and see if that gets us anywhere.
Certainly the linked article is written from a Turkocentric and Islamocentric point of view; that should be obvious to the most casual reader. And let's leave aside, for the moment, the veracity of the claims made in the article. In fact, let's assume for the sake of discussion that the article does contain historical inaccuracies. My question is then, does this automatically disqualify the article for an inclusion as an external link to this article? Mind you, this is a different question from "should this material be incorporated into the article?". We're only discussing whether this belongs here as a link, one which may or may not be followed by readers of the article.
I'd also like to point out some of the obvious baggage connected to this article, at the risk of pissing off people of various ethnicities. Having been to Bulgaria, I can confidently say that, in general, Bulgarians do have a kind of blind spot when it comes to Turks, and possibly even Muslims. This is completely understandable, as the fact of 500 years of Ottoman occupation is inescapable as one travels around the country. But it leaves Bulgarians somewhat in the same position as the Turks themselves, say, regarding their (Turks) insistent denial of the Armenian holocaust; that's another gaping historical blind spot. In general, it seems that no discussion among Balkan people can occur without large amounts of accusations of various crimes against humanity, dredging up of ancient histories, and all that. As a Western observer, it sometimes seems as if people "over there" never forget the slightest injustice, whether it happened last week or a thousand years ago, and this tends to make some of us in the West throw up our hands and say the hell with it. Some of that historical sparring seems to be occuring here. Fine: I understand that there are reasons for this. But perhaps, maybe just this once, people here could put their swords down for a moment and try to look at this somewhat objectively.
My own opinion of the Murad article really doesn't matter, as I'm not qualified to comment on this area of history; it does strike me, though, as very well written, somewhat colorful, and possibly a useful addendum to the article, even taking into account whatever inaccuracies, perceived or real, it contains. +ILike2BeAnonymous 20:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I think that you have said it for youtself - the article contains historical lies and bias. I am sorry, but I will not favour the inclusion of the link. The article is an obvious propaganda - my opinion is that it does not have a place in an encyclopedia that claims to give a comprehensive and neutral information. Can you see any Bulgarian nationalistic links around the article? There are some of them around the Internet I am sure, but where is the reason for their inclusion - they will not add anything useful to the contents of the Plovdiv article and I thought that this is the purpose of the external links. Does the existence of a radical theory/article/work make it absolutely necessary for inclusion in Wikipedia?
Your comparison with the Armenian genocide is completely flawed. The oppresions of Turks during the communist rule has been aknowledged by different Bulgarian governments many times after 1989. Also a FORMAL appology to the Turkish side was issued by one Bulgarian government - the one led by Ivan Kostov (1997-2001). I do not know the exact date when this happened, but I am certain that this is true. I do not think that ANY Turkish government has come anywhere close to that with regards to the Armenian genocide.
Now, I, myself, do not have any prejudice or bad feelings against Turks - I used to study with some of them at university, back in Bulgaria and with one of them here in Vancouver; and even hang out with them (you may think that I lie, but I DO NOT). It is true that there exists some tension between the two groups, but this is NOT comparable to what has been happening in the neighbouring countries, and people must give credit to the citizens of Bulgaria for that - unfortunately, this is something that noone does. Instead, people are constantly spreading propaganda and hatred around just for their own good feeling... Currently I live in Vancouver, Canada, and there are some Bulgarian Turks and Muslim Bulgarians among us here, and we DO socialize - the distance from the Balkans drives people to a slightly different view of life. But the only thing that I can say is that articles like this one, fueled with obvious and intentional historical lies, are the moving force behind ethnical distrust and hatred. For me, this is a question of principles - being neutral does not necessitates the inclusion of tons and tons of propaganda from any two extremes, it requires support of the middle ground.
If you want to place pictures of the two mosques, do it, no one will stop you from that, otherwise I do not see a reason there should be two links (surprise, surprise) to the article. I want to ask you to stop the game and edit and discuss from ONE USER ACCOUNT. I do not think that editing as 2-3 separate users will help you here - it's against the rules. Cnn lies 01:58, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the comments about this link, I believe it is being allowed to stay because it is written by a prominent Muslim scholar, but the article is too biased and doesn't represent a true picture of the time period. +Koal4e 12:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the link due to the following violation of Wikipedia rules
2. Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. See Reliable sources for explanations of the terms "factually inaccurate material" or "unverifiable research".
The article is misleading as it does not offer an unbiased view of the true history that happened. It talks about horrific massacres of the Muslim population without talking about what the Ottoman Empire had done to the Bulgarian people of Plovdiv thus giving the view that the Ottoman Empire had not caused attrocities themselves. The article also talks about mile after mile of empty shells of communist era factories when the truth is that the Plovdiv of today is one where the economy is thriving greatly and new buildings are being erected at a fast pace to keep up with demand.
The writer is clearly against Bulgarian people as he writes about a mosque in the city "The outside walls are used as a urinal by Bulgarian drunks," to me an external link that is factually incorrect and demonises the same people this article is about does not belong here. +Koal4e 15:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Remove that link once and for all! It is full of lies writen by this Tim guy who has converted to islam and is now preaching his lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.72.93.24 (talk) 19:38, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I have repeatedly removed this external link because I and all other Bulgarians who have shared theit thoughts on the duscussion page findit bias and fual of false information that may mislead its readers.Further more I live in Plovdiv and I find the contents of that article insulting. By the way why don't you write the authors new arab name and not his old one at least the readers may understand why was that thing written. Avidius--Avidius (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I have once again removed the link due to the following violation of Wikipedia rules
2. Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. See Reliable sources for explanations of the terms "factually inaccurate material" or "unverifiable research".
The article is misleading as it does not offer an unbiased view of the true history that happened. It talks about horrific massacres of the Muslim population without talking about what the Ottoman Empire had done to the Bulgarian people of Plovdiv thus giving the view that the Ottoman Empire had not caused attrocities themselves. The article also talks about mile after mile of empty shells of communist era factories when the truth is that the Plovdiv of today is one where the economy is thriving greatly and new buildings are being erected at a fast pace to keep up with demand. I also want to add that there is no Leningrad avenue in Plovdiv (you cant even put Leningrad and avenue together as one is masculine and one feminine) but there is a Leningrad Boulevard which is full of shops, new hotels and apartments etc so this is another inaccurate comment.
The writer is clearly against Bulgarian people as he writes about a mosque in the city "The outside walls are used as a urinal by Bulgarian drunks," to me an external link that is factually incorrect and demonises the same people this article is about does not belong here.
My knowledge of Plovdiv is quite strong given I am there for a few months a year and my wife is from Plovdiv. +Koal4e 08:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Няма ли българи, които да ми помогнат да спрем постоянното включване на тази гнусна статийка написана от някакъв си псевдоучен, който на всичкото от горе туко що приел исляма и вече за да се покаже угоден на Алаха пише тези лъжи. Avidius--Avidius--Avidius (talk) 22:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Translation...
For link "Plovdiv - Granada of the East"
Isn't there Bulgarians who can help me stop the constant inclusion of this disgusting article written by someone who calls himself a scholar who on top of everything else has accepted Islam as his religion and in order to show himself good to Allah is writing these lies. +Koal4e 09:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I have removed two external links, one from zonebulgaria which had a small paragraph about Plovdiv and that was all, the other was a link to photos that just came up with items not found.
I left the external link - Plovdiv - Granada of the East as there is a deep discussion regarding this although my opinion is that it should be removed until it has more fact based information included and is less biased against the Bulgarian people. +Koal4e 12:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
The link Plovdiv-Granada of the east should be removed it has strong antibulgarian purpose and manipulates history e.g it tries to make Plovdiv a historically musslim town and talks about musslims being slaughtered while omitting the fact that when the Ottomans captured it they promptly slaughtered the christians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.72.93.24 (talk) 16:54, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
A particular biased point of view to be exact which should not be typical for a real scholar. Knows about the history of the place ? How can he know the history of the place when almost everything he writes is wrong ? Sure, everyone can read Evlya Chelebi but that does mean everybody will know the history of the place after that ? I have an idea why not insert a similar link on the Instanbul page describing some real historycal facts ? +Avidius--Avidius (talk) 21:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I have given much evidence of the article being factually innaccurate and have mentioned this one more than one occasion on your own talk page without any comment from yourself. The issue here is that factually inaccurate information, scholar or not, is against Wikipedia TOS as shown below.
2. Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. See Reliable sources for explanations of the terms "factually inaccurate material" or "unverifiable research".
Just a few of the reasons that this article is factually innaccurate I have mentioned on here and your talk page ILike2BeAnonymous are
1) There are many issues with the article such as its bias against Bulgarian people as it even has the following inaccurate comment written in it "The outside walls are used as a urinal by Bulgarian drunks," while talking about a mosque. Can the writer clearly say that he knows Bulgarians choose to walk up to the mosque after a night drinking and use it as a toilet?
2) There is no Leningrad Avenue or Industriyalna Road in Plovdiv, actually there is not even a Leningrad avenue in Bulgaria at all because Bulgaria does not have avenues and you cannot even put Industriyalna and Road together as Industriyalna is feminine and Road is masculine. There is a Leningrad Boulevard which is full of shops, new hotels and apartments etc so this is another inaccurate comment.
3) The article also talks about mile after mile of empty shells of communist era factories when the truth is that the Plovdiv of today is one where the economy is thriving greatly and new buildings are being erected at a fast pace to keep up with demand, again this comment is about the Industriyalna Road mentioned above.
To me an article that is factually inaccurate has no place on Wikipedia whether it be biased or not. We need to find common ground with this link otherwise it will keep being removed and reinserted for a long time to come. +Koal4e 00:53, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I would like to find a true scholar who would write bias and demeaning content about a culture to the point where they are even talking about drunk people urinating on historical monuments. I feel that this goes way beyond what I would call acceptable bias.
I only use the examples above of factually innaccurate information in the article when there are many others. One thing you have accepted is that there are factual inaccuracies which is against Wikipedia TOS as mentioned previously.
I would also like to mention that you talk of these factual inaccuracies as minor yet they are absolutely huge, which if you have travelled around Plovdiv you would concede. The article talks about the Plovdiv today as if it is a place where there is no economy and just empty shells of communist era factories which is the total opposite of the truth as Plovdiv is full of brand new commercial and residential buildings and a thriving economy.
This link has been added and removed so many times that I feel its time to ask for arbitration on the matter to gain an outsiders perspective.+Koal4e 23:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Are the rumors true that the old town cottages will be destroyed and replaced with small office buildings and a mall?83.228.121.186 (talk) 17:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Cottages ? I wouldn't call them that but anyway the Old Town is a protected area and no mall will be build within it.--Avidius (talk) 22:37, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
+Koal4e
Dispute over external link due to discrepencies in factual accuracy and also bias deemed extreme by some editors
Look at the BG version, Постоянните жители (живеещите в България и живеещите в чужбина, но с български паспорт) на община Пловдив през 2007 г. са 705 121 души, което я нарежда на второ място по население и 224-то по площ в страната. Според данните на НСИ от 12. 06. 2008 реално живеещите в Пловдив са 705 121 жители[7].
when did plovdiv became a 700k + city,that damn funny.especially if we take the fact that soon plovdiv will(or may be is) be overtaken by varna in term of size ,and the city is very behind from Varna and Burgas in term of investments
The population of Plovdiv Province is 705 121 according to NSI. GRAO is used as a population reference for all Bulgarian cities.--Avidius (talk) 17:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Isnt the time to write in the article the real ranking of Plovdiv -3rd bulgarian city ,afterall Varna overtaked Plovdiv in every aspect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.100.188.66 (talk) 18:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT (talk) 21:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
The skyline image for Plovdiv has been deleted.I'm sorry because it was really an amazing picture.Any suggestions for a new skyline image?GvmBG (talk) 17:17, 5 November 2008 (UTC)GvmBG
Filibe was a name of Plovdiv during the Ottoman rule (XIV — XIX century). Nowadays Plovdiv in Turkish is... Plovdiv. I think it is not needed to give names in other languages than national as we have multilingual encyclopedia and making an article in different languages is very easy.--Valkov 16:57, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I do not know about the National Revival Period, but the city article definitely needs a section about the period of Ottoman occupation. After all, the town was Ottoman for more than 500 years. I intend to write a part about this in the history section. Also, since the history section may thus become huge, we may eed to create a separate article for it. Any suggestions/objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.91.72 (talk) 03:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Two Bulgarian sources refer to a conflict between the Byzantines and Bulgarians started in 855-856. The Byzantine forces, were successful in the conflict and reconquered a number of cities, Philippopolis, Develtus, Anchialus and Mesembria being among them, and also the frontier region between Sider and Develtus, known as Zagora, in northeastern Thrace. Gjuzelev, p. 130 (Gjuzelev, V., (1988) Medieval Bulgaria, Byzantine Empire, Black Sea, Venice, Genoa (Centre culturel du monde byzantin). Published by Verlag Baier) and Bulgarian historical review, p.9 (Bulgarian historical review (2005), United Center for Research and Training in History, Published by Pub. House of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, v.33:no.1-4). Urselius (talk) 08:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Isn't Plovdiv Europe's #1 oldest city? If so, why not rather say that in the article? Deusveritasest (talk) 05:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
So far the only unreal things around here have been your claims.--Avidius (talk) 21:01, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but the Ancient Greek idea of a polis was by no means universal. Even so, Mycenae and Troy were not poleis as they preceded the very idea of a polis, which dates to the Archaic period (650–480 BC). Mycenae thrived in the Late Helladic period (1550–1060 BC), and the earliest archaeology of Troy dates to 3000 BC. Rome was legendarily founded in 753 BC, Carthage in 814 BC, and Byzantium in 671–662 BC. All before the Archaic period and its idea of a polis. Not to mention Rome and Carthage have nothing to do with Ancient Greek cultural concepts in the first place.
Basically, my research above makes Megistias' point that we should compare "city status" rather than "actual chronology of continuous inhabitance" invalid. Which it was in the first place. Todor→Bozhinov 21:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
You do understand that Latium is an area that included settlements other then Rome? While in the case of Plovdiv we are speaking of habitation in what is now the center of the city for thousands of years.--Avidius (talk) 21:11, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
It is a little hard for him to disguise it.--Avidius (talk) 21:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Ummm, Megistias, last time I checked, the Neolithic was part of history. Is it now an astronomical term? And you do know that humans had settled down in the Neolithic, forming settlements, right? [5] Todor→Bozhinov 21:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, now that Megistias (who has an unfortunate tendency of sounding like a broken record in such discussions) is no longer here, perhaps we can get this to a slightly more rational level. Todor, you said somewhere above that "it's about the mostly smooth and certainly continuous existence of a single settlement", and I agree that this could be a reasonable criterion. But what makes you think the pre-history of this place is significantly more "smooth and continuous" than that of, say, Athens, Corinth, or Rome, or any of the many many places around the Mediterranean that have similarly old prehistoric archaeological layers? Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
The claim that Plovdiv has a history going back 6000 years is sourced to a single, inappropriate source. The Dennis Rodwell source is primarily environmental, not archeological in focus, and hence off topic and inappropriate. Even worse, the phrase is lifted verbatim from the source, and then cut-and-pasted twice in the article (first in the second sentence of the lead, then again in the history section! Further on, it is claimed that an established settlement existed there since the 7th millennium BC, which is sourced the Plovdiv Museum website (a dead link) and to two Bulgarian language publications. This is utterly ridiculous. These are exceptional claims, and exceptional claims require high-quality sources. If the claim that Plovdiv is Europe's oldest continuously inhabited city were reflected in the international academic consensus, it shouldn't be hard to find mainstream English-language reliable sources that would reflect this consensus. This is clearly NOT the case here, the case here being one of "antiquity frenzy", fringe-POV pushing, not to mention violation of WP:DUE and manipulation of WP:RS. The arguments put forth by the users that support these claims are even more outrageous [6], using WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, sarcasm and sophistry. --Athenean (talk) 21:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The data seems to indicate much higher values for the summer months than in actuality. I don't know much about Plovdiv, but the values seem unusual for the area. Plese, see http://www.weatherbase.com for reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IoanC (talk • contribs) 13:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I think the city fits into the humid subtropical category of the Koppen classification. See link, Koppen —Preceding unsigned comment added by IoanC (talk • contribs) 17:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Well now, this is interesting: I did a search on Google books for "Plovidv" and got approximately 2300 hits [9]. When I do a similar search for "Philippoupolis" and its variant "Philippopolis" I get 417 [10] and [11] 1850 hits respectively, or almost the same. Considering this, the fact the place was known as Philippopolis in the English-speaking world for most of its history, it's large former Greek population, I think inclusion of the Greek name in parentheses in the lead is fully warranted per WP:NCGN, particularly clause 2: Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted.... Now, because I expect nothing more than edit-warring and the usual howls of rage, I am posting this on the talkpage. However, I believe my case is rock-solid and fully backed by wikipedia policy, and any edit-warring will be dealt with accordingly. --Athenean (talk) 01:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
What I am trying is to avoid double-standards. The reasons for including foreign names depend on whether the city has been part of another country or whether it had significant foreign population. Plovdiv has never been part of Greece (nor has been Thessaliniki part of Bulgaria, unless we call the vassalage of Epyris between 1230 and 1246 rule) and the number of Greeks according to late 19th century census had been circa 16%, that of the Bulgarians is Thessaloniki has been circa 10% which is relatively close and if that is considered, we should have both names written in the respective language or none.
Yet again, Solun as a name is really important in Bulgaria since the creators of our alphabet were of that city which makes it very significant for the Bulgarians and the Slavs and worth mentioning it with its Slavic name, and more precisely its Bulgarian name.
And I really don't understand what is the problem the Greek spelling to remain below? It is already there, so there is no need for it in the lead. Since the city was known as Philipopolis to the English, then it could remain in the lead but only spelled in Latin, after all the English did not use Greek alphabet and if someone is interested to know more about the origin of the name, he can go in the name section and see how it is spelled in Greek. --Gligan (talk) 17:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
The fact the city was referred to as Philippopolis in the West for most of its history is basic information. --Athenean (talk) 19:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Recent ip editor insists to add information of poor quality like "the city was founded at 3000 BC as Eumolpias meaning the Hell". Needless to say that we don't know the 3000 or 2000 BC name of any city founded in Europe that time. Since Eumolpias isn't attested on Ancient Egyptian or Messopotamian scripts of 3000 or 2000 BC this type of nonsense has to go.22:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
I get sourced information from the Bulgarian Wikipedia that Thracians founded their Eumolpias in 1200 BC so I will take the name back to the intro because deleting proven earlier name than the Greek is clearly tendencous and if you continue you should explain here why you are deleting the name besides the statement 3000-2000 BC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.77.25.241 (talk) 12:38, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
You need to add the source in this wikipedia article, in general we can't use wp as a source in any article. Moreover, removing sourced info about the known name of the city in most of its history, can be considered really disruptive. I would also suggest to use more civil edit summaries.Alexikoua (talk) 15:43, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
As I see Eumolpias was named after the mythical king Eumolpus, son of Poseidon.Alexikoua (talk)
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Superlative statements such as "some regard [Plovdiv]] as Europe's oldest cities" need to be sourced to high-quality sources. The more superlative the claim, the more stringent the criteria for source quality. However, this claim here is sourced to websites such as "Eurochicago.com", "About.com", and "Telegraph.co.uk". Such sources are not of sufficient caliber to back this claim. I can accept that Plovdiv is among Europe's oldest cities, but for the claim "Europe's oldest city", such sources will not do. Athenean (talk) 08:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be an inconsistency in the spelling of the former name of the city. It is sometimes (most often) written Phillipopolis and sometimes Philippoupolis. The last version seems to me to be the most correct transcription from Greek, and this is also the form used by Bilinis (note 4). Anyone care to clean up? Regards! 79.160.40.10 (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
There's no need to "clean up", both forms are grammatically (and historically) acceptable and interchangeable. Ivan Marinov (talk) 11:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
There are NO two ancient theaters in Plovdiv. Designating the odeon as a theater is more or less the equivalent of designating the National Assembly building in Sofia as a cinema. Ivan Marinov (talk) 11:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Please, discuss any moves to a title with diacritics prior to performing the actual move. Try and explain why the title need the symbols and why it cannot possibly stay without them. Mind you, neither Bulgarian, nor its standard transliteration include diacritics. You will not see a sign pointing to Plòvdiv, that is for sure. That does not mean I do not appreciate diacritics or your work providing us with information on stressed syllables, but I really think the title is better without them. Feel free to start a discussion on the topic, though (I guess, technically, it has already started). Cheers. --Laveol T 00:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Lt's see, there is Roma, Byzantium, Cincinnati, and Plovdiv! How many others are there? PS, the rest of this "talk" page is basically childish stuff! 96.19.159.196 (talk) 00:40, 4 October 2013 (UTC)Ronald L. Hughes
In 72 BC it was seized by the Roman general Marcus Lucullus but was soon restored to Thracian control. In AD 46 the city was finally incorporated into the Roman Empire by emperor Claudius,[21] it was called Trimontium (City of Three Hills) and served as metropolis (capital) of the province of Thrace. It gained a city status in late 1st century.[22] Trimontium was an important crossroad for the Roman Empire and was called "The largest and most beautiful of all cities" by Lucian. Although it was not the capital of the Province of Thrace, the city was the largest and most important centre in the province. Er? There's a need to resolve. - 92.100.171.81 (talk) 19:03, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
When Philip of Macedon founded Philippopolis, he settled numbers of "difficult" Macedonians in the town. He reasoned that men who were a menace in their homeland would be more useful in a frontier town in the wilds of Thrace. Because of this the city of Philippopolis became familiarly known as "Poneropolis", which might be translated as "Thugsville" or "Crook CIty". See: The Cambridge Companion to the Hellenistic World. edited by Glenn R. Bugh, p. 18. A quaint fact that might be useful to add to the article. Urselius (talk) 07:31, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
In this article, it firstly says Philip II of Macedon rename the city as Φιλιππούπολις in name section, then says Philip II of Macedon rename the city as Φιλιππόπολις in history section. I am not an expert of Greek, but I know they are different. Can anyone explain this? --Qijiang ok (talk) 12:26, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Very good statement, but also you are very rude, the Greek name Filipopolis and Filip II must be repeated in every section of the article, noy just in three. (Im joking). The current version is completely missing sense, irrlelevant and confusing for the readers and you really made a good statement and evidenced this very well. All this is probably made as a result of Greek users propaganda with the help and silent submission of Bulgarian ones. In three places, - the intro, the name section and the history section it is said how "Philip II of Macedon renames the city as Φιλιππόπολις ". Oh, wait the article is fullfilled with all the needed information, the only thing that the article is missing to say about this homosexual is "Philip II of Macedon was actually a God", this is what I propose to include in the article, to extent the innformation about the master of the city. Another mine proposal is to include the greatest gay creed of the God:
(The Sacred Band of Thebes, a separate military unit reserved only for men and their beloved, is usually considered the prime example of how the ancient Greeks used love between soldiers in a troop to boost their fighting spirit. The Thebans attributed to the Sacred Band the power of Thebes for the generation before its fall to Philip II of Macedon, who was so impressed with their bravery during battle, he erected a monument(and maybe smt else) that still stands today on their gravesite. He burst into tears for the male lovers and said:
I also have another kind of proposal, which i would say would be far more constructive - let's not extend the propaganda and normalise the article - I hope you'd like this one more. The article is clearly propagandic and needs complete reconstruction, better somebody recalls for reconstruction of the article, the only thing I wonder is whether all this is LGBT propaganda or Greek propaganda or both. Anyway how could be the event of conquest of the city by the Persian Empire which occured before Philip missing? And why meaningwhile Philip and Greek Filipopolis repeated in three places instead??? HOLY GREEK TRINITY ? Is this a Greek nationalist website? I am also personally doubtfull if Philip II and Macedonians were Greeks, so heterosexuals if any don't get offended by my statements about him, if I was a Greek personally I would not claim him but being ashammed of him. Anyway I am sure that the etymology of Filippoplis is Greek. Why a real human - the ancient Thracian king Eumolpus after whom the settlement was named is directed to Greek mythology manipulatively shown as a son of the Greek god Poseidon?(thats what its said in the article of Poseidon but he may was in Thracian religion too) Even the non-Greek hisotrians state "Macedonians" conquered the city, not "Plovdiv was Macedonian Greek city". I have the following constructive proposal corresponding to the truth - add the Greek name in Sofia's introduction and remove it here. Just because the etymology of Sofia comes fromt he Greek word for wisdom. This is a fact, I may dislike it but this is the truth I am neutral, not exagrating nationalist claims as it is done in this article. The Greek name has nothing to do with Plovdiv's etymology, neither was Filipopolis as this form used throughout most of the city history, maybe- only if including the similiar Turkish form Filibe for 6 centuries more. Philipopolis is just a past for Plovdiv and the only place correspoding to it is the historical name section I think, the Greek love pride times of the city have gone, now Plovdiv is a beutiful Bulgarian city with Thraco-Slavic name and this propaganda with Philipopolis is ridiciolous. It is welcoming place and LGBT people have the same rights as during Philip II, anyway please don't exaggrate the Greek love. Although as being neitral I recognise the Greek etymology of the capital p Sofia and as a sort of truth the Greek origin may be added there, for Plovdiv I think the Greek name is just irrelevant, and currently in three places stated - nothing more than a cheap propaganda. Please don't make divine worship of Philip II and exaggration of the Greek name, it is simply a past. So why some Greek users don't add the Greek name in Sofia article, it would be relevant and furthermore it is a capital city and would further fulfill your nationalist claim needs. I would not have a problem with that if you remove the spread of the Greek bacteria which have made three copies already(excl. additional infectious codes over much of the info) in the article because present Plodiv has not anything even remotely relevant to the Greek name and because Sofia in contrast has for a name the Greek word for wisdom. I think it is simple. I mean seriously, no joke, add it in Sofia article and remove it here. Not because I would ike that but because to fix the inaccuracies, I live in Sofia not in Plovdiv, I just try to remind you the true facts, that Sofia is a Greek name and Plovdiv is not, it is claimed to be the opposite in Wiki and irrelevant and I try to correct you, this is the truth what can I say, as I live in Sofia I wish Plovdiv had Greek name instead of Sofia(I would like it to be called Serdica) but the truth is the opposite way. So, after all, I am against the Greek name in Plovdiv article, but in favour of including it in Sofia's article intro, pointing out the city name's origin, it corresponds to the facts. -- I am not a homofobe don't get offended I use sarcasm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:4802:260:0:0:0:0:1A12 (talk) 02:47, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your answer. What your said does have a point. This article should focus on modern Plovdiv. Maybe the past history of Plovdiv can be moved to a separate article. But you still have not answered my question. What is the correct ancient Greek name of this city, Φιλιππούπολις or Φιλιππόπολις? Qijiang ok (talk) 06:15, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Although the additions in this edit [[14]] might be correct, they are still not supported by academic or in general secondary sources, as stated per wp:HISTRS. Off course the use of travel guides or primary ancient texts is not the best option in the history related sections of the article.Alexikoua (talk) 08:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
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What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 20:53, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
The juxtaposition of the following two sentences creates a falsehood, even if each of the two might be sourceable on its own:
The same goes for the sentence in the name section: "It was originally a Thracian settlement by the name of Eumolpias (Εὐμολπιάς) […]"
There were no Thracians in 4000 BC. If the neolithic traces from 4000 BC are to be counted as part of the history of Plovdiv, then it can't possibly have been "originally" a Thracian settlement, and a Thracian name cannot possibly have been its "original" one. The Thracian settlement may of course be the earliest historically attested one. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:54, 7 December 2015 (UTC)