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It says that theRPG is innefective against armour but on BBC news a damaged M1 abrams was shown. It had been hit by an rpg-7 and had a large hole in it
Anyone have data on distribution and/or typical costs. I think this info would give a good window into the users and what they might use it for. I'm thinking about 3rd world vs. 1st world combatants..... Dobbs 00:18 Sep 25, 2002 (UTC)
All RPG's DO use pressure to launch the round, just not high pressure. So I guess I'll re-write the part about being similar to a rifle to avoid confusion. The fact is, the front part of the warhead IS sealed in the front of the launcher. The rocket activates and pressurizes the warhead in the tube. This overpressure (both within the tube, and to the rear - the much higher temp of the exhaust gas provides a pressure differential to the rear as well), helps to push the rocket from the tube. Because of this overpressure - and resulting spurt of high speed not possible with such a short burn by the action of the rocket motors impulse alone - the rocket does not have to contiune burning past the forward lip of the launcher in order to gain enough speed to be stable at exit. This keeps the rocket from burning the user. Sorry for the confusion! Dobbs 16:01 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)
I've edited the tactics section for South Africa to note that APCs drove in ever WIDENING circles, not narrowing, in order to defeat APC teams. So sayeth this well cited article we already link as a resource. Alereon 11:36, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
I have updated the description for the acronym RPG-7. The mistaken translation of "Rocket Propelled Grenade" is VERY prevalent, even amongst soldiers. I removed references to the U.S. LAW as an RPG as this is not an English acronym to begin with and it is not used in any other context other than referring to the Russian RPG and those copied, or built under license. I can't speak for all western militaries, but the U.S. and I'm assuming U.K. (same language, almost:) do not use the acronym RPG when referring to their own weapons of similar design. The word grenade has a different usage in the American military lexicon then in other countries. As an example, in German, a anti-tank round is called panzer granate and mortars are granatenwerfer (grenade launcher), where in the English it’s a "mortar" firing "rounds". Although the English dictionary definition for grenade fits the general meaning, the word grenade is exclusively used to describe hand throw explosives, or launched, unguided explosives of equivalent tactical use. This would not include an anti-tank weapon, which is referred to as "rocket" or "missile". The word missile is more or less the English equivalent for other languages usage of the word grenade. Enough semantics. I also changed the description of the tandem warhead. The purpose of the tandem warhead is to detonate reactive armor prior to impact, making it waste its energy prior to the primary warheads impact. It has nothing to do with composite armor as this works under a different principle. In laymen’s terms its spreads the highly directed energy of the shaped charge and diffuses it over a wider area. This is discussed briefly in the Army Times if anyone wants to look it up (I don't remember the link now, but will add later). Lastly, The tactical usage was far too simplistic. The most important aspect in the tactical usage and countering of any platform, weapon, unit etc., is the terrain it is being used in. One cannot simply say, "Well equipped armies do this". Long ranged weapons are not an effective solution in restrictive terrain. Also, the rules of engagement of any given combatant can also largely affect the tactical options available. Read Patton's recommended tactics on urban warfare, in his book "War As I Knew It" and think if this would be politically appropriate in Iraq.
I was a Non-Commissioned Officer and gunner in M1A1 MBT's for five years ending about a year ago. I don't speak Russian but an Army friend who was Military Intelligence, specialized as a Russian linguist, did the translation. I was also trained in the correct translation of RPG anyway as well as most of the information added/changed. For these reasons, I cannot be more specific with tactics or on their application in Iraq. My changes are more consistent with the general tactical employment of the RPG and it's relative counters; at least enough for the casual reader coming here for a general description of the RPG.
StonewallJack 8/16/05
"where in the English it’s a "mortar" firing "rounds"
Yeah but the british army are very pedantic like that, e.g if soldiers call thier rifle a "gun" you will get a bollocking because according to the army a gun is defined as having a caliber of over 100mm or something like that.
86.16.153.191 (talk) 02:04, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
If Rocket Propelled Grenade isn't the correct name for this, why is the article still there? If we're to stand by our words it seems we should move this to RPG, right? --Dvyost 06:20, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't this Page be turned into "handheld antitank grenade-launcher" or RPG (weapon/gun/something)? RPG does not stand for rocket propelled grenade.
A grenade is a type of time-bomb, so an RPG should just be called a missile, because the bomb explodes upon impact.
I cleaned up the initial description a little. The term Rocket Propelled Grenade is "never" correct. It's like saying APC stands for "Army People Car". As a former soldier this is a pet peeve of mine. I can't speak for all militaries that use the English language, but this does not follow U.S. military naming convention. Everything follows the standardized naming convention of 1) What it is, and 2) What it does. The correct Russian translation follows this convention, I.e.. Handheld (you can carry it, its not vehicle mounted or crew served), Anti-tank (what it is for), Grenade Launcher (what it is). This tells everyone that it is A) A weapon system. (Not a piece of ammo, like a rocket, but the launcher etc.) B)It's for killing tanks and tank like targets. C) What it does(Grenade, in English, without anything more descriptive, would indicate a weapon designed for antipersonnel). Rocket Propelled Grenade does not have any meaning. It does not describe this weapon at all. It sounds like it is describing a piece of ammunition for another weapon system, like a Rifle Grenade or something similar. Think of it like calling a tank (MBT) a Self-propelled Gun (SPG). You could say that this is technically correct, however anyone who knows anything about modern warfare, knows there is a HUGE difference between the two. This is such a common mistake, I see it in the news all the time. Please don't perpetuate it here. It's almost as bad as calling anything with tracks a tank (as a former tanker, I hate this one with a passion, as do (should) all tankers). I have edited this article before (StonewallJack. Changed email, lost password), but it has been changed again. This article needs to be renamed, but I don't have the privileges necessary right now. If someone else wants to do it until I can, please do so.
Not all RPG's use the pressure of an expelling or propelling charge to propel the High-Explosive, Anti-Tank (HEAT) warhead to the target. The World War II Ruchnaya Protivotankovaya Granata ("R=Hand, P=Anti-Tank, G=Grenade") Model 43 or RPG-43 (External link here) and RPG-6 are two hand thrown grenades with HEAT heads. They are thrown, by hand, high into the air over a target and deploy streamers to orient the head of the grenade downward so that the shaped charge of the HEAT warhead strikes the, normally thinner armor, top of an armored vehicle. They work well in a MOUT setting when vehicles are moving on the streets and soldiers are throwing these hand grenades from the windows or the roof tops of buildings. Also there is not always a rocket motor involved with the more common RPG's seen on television news casts or in the movies. The PG-2 has no rocket motor whatsoever. Only the propelling charge, connected just behind the fins, drives the projectile to the target. The PG-7 does in fact have a rocket motor however it does not ignite when the trigger of the launcher is pulled. This would injure the firer. When the launchers trigger is pulled the expelling charge is ignited, the round leaves the tube, and then, only after it is a safe distance from the firer, the rocket motor ignites and propels the round to the target. The PG-2 and PG-7 only become RPG-2 or RPG-7 when the round is loaded in the "hand held" launcher.
The Russian designation for hand thrown HEAT grenades is now identified as Ruchnaya Kumulyativnaya Granata (R=Hand, K=Shaped Charge, G=Grenade). See the RKG-3. The "P" has been changed to "K" but the use and results are the same.
Addtitional information.--Eod1sg 01:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Thi article really needs sorting out. Firstly - as mentioned above - there is no such thing as a Rocket-propelled grenade, it exists only as a misconception.
Secondly the scope of the article seems continually confused. I feel that an article covering the RPG-series of weapons is noteworthy, and would be useful - but it should only cover RPGs, and not other similar weapons or generic information on those; the article Shoulder-launched missile weapon should be the one to cover these topics.
So I think the best course of action is:
Rename this article as RPG (weapon) Move any information that does not concern RPGs to shoulder-launched missile weapon Move most of the information about employment - generic information should probably belong in the above article, information relating to specific weapons should go in the article for the respective weapon Redirect Rocket-propelled grenade either to RPG (weapon) or to shoulder-launched missile weapon, I'm not sure which is most appropriate. Jellyfish dave (talk) 12:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Even if it was translated as a grenade propelled by a rocket (which is apparently incorrect), one should still add a hyphen: "Rocket-propelled grenade" 169.237.6.178 23:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I came across this discussion when looking for information on a different RPG. It is interesting; I'm not a military guy, and never heard this before. As a Wikipedian, I would advise citing a reliable source. While it does have the ring of truth, individual statements and suppositions are not acceptable here. In particular, given that all but one of the existing sources in the "External Links" section use the term Rocket Propelled Grenade, and the other one simply gives the Russian expansion without contrdicting the English expansion, the introduction appears to contradict the article's existing sources. That's no good. --DragonHawk 21:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
The "Tactics" section contains the following as the last paragraph:
In Iraq, U.S. anti-insurgent operations developed another effective tactic. In misty, dusty or night-time situations, advanced optics, such as infrared telescopes, permit helicopter gunships to surveil convoys from beyond human-visible range, and still attack insurgents with inexpensive anti-personnel fire. This approach is more economical than area-denial. Protecting as little as 20% of the convoys rapidly depletes an area of active insurgents.
There are a lot of absolutes in there that at best sound like estimates, if not propaganda. Moreover, terms like "depleting an area of active insurgents" are not neutral encyclopedic style, but rather euphemisms. Given that the Iraq "insurgency" shows no significant cool down, is there any evidence that the paragraph is more than propaganda and wish-fulfillment? --Stephan Schulz 12:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
StonewallJack 8/16/05
I agree, also. The "Tactics" section should probably look something like this:
The extensive discussion of anti-insurgent warfare in Iraq should be pared down—perhaps it can be moved to Post-invasion Iraq, 2003–2005#Iraqi insurgency, or one of the referred sub-articles there, and this article can refer to that. —Michael Z. 2005-12-11 16:58 Z
I'ver taken out the text of the last anonymous edit and moved it here, as it did not fit the text at that point. I'm not knowledgable enough to see if the point made is correct, so could somebody who is please take a look at this? --Martin Wisse 20:16, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
I've changed the incorrect term: "Ручной противотанковый гранатомёт, Ruchnoy Protivotankovy Granatomyot" to the correct one: Reaktivniy Protivotankniy Granatomyot (реактивный противотанковый гранатомёт), "rocket anti-tank launcher". I will change the other RPG sites as I have time. For those who would doubt this I include a link to a Russian language site that uses th correct term: http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-r.htm. I'm not sure where the term "Ручной" or Hand(-held)(the "-held" aspect of the term is implied in Russian) came from, however, a quick review of the Russian RPG Wiki sites show them to also be inaccurate and with several different variations on the meaning of РПГ. I suspect "Ручной" has been transfered from term RPK/РПК "Ручной пулемёт Калашникова" which translated from Russian is "Hand(-held) machinegun of/by Kalashnikov". Nathan Arnold 25 APR 2007
Thanks for your help. I further corrected your translation. Recall: гранатомёт is grenade launcher, not just launcher (e.g. пулемёт - bullet launcher - machine gun, огнемёт - flame launcher - flame thrower)
i come to find this and its not included 1939 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.196.101 (talk) 16:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Surprisingly, nobody has pointed out that rocket launchers have NO effect on weather, and about 40% of the public actually believes they do. Is this article assuming that anyone that believes this is completely moronic?
The part where it says a rpg-29 penetrated th ERA of a british Challenger 2 is wrong. Challengers did not use ERA in Iraq. Ive never heard of them having ERA although it would not be hard to make some for it. Like the M1A2 with the TUSK package ERA is not difficult to produce. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaja6009 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
From the source: The Challenger 2 is reputed to be one of the most sophisticated tanks in the world and those used in Iraq by the British Army are built with Dorchester armour, the composition of which is top secret. The tank is also fitted with explosive reactive armour (ERA) at its front that should deflect any weapon fired at its hull. The MoD has finally confirmed that the tank's armour was breached last August and has said that an investigation was conducted to discover why the ERA appears to have failed. However, the department refused to comment on its findings, citing security reasons.
In the August attack, which occurred during an operation to arrest a leading insurgent in the town of al-Amarah, in southern Iraq, the Challenger was damaged when a Russian-made rocket-propelled grenade, known as an RPG-29, defeated the ERA and penetrated the driver's cabin. --Sus scrofa 08:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I heard most tanks had the ERA removed so troops could follow them in cramped urban conditions without as much risk to themselves.86.16.153.191 (talk) 02:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
It currently says that most modern tanks are "largely immune" to fire from anti-tank weapons. This seems wrong. Even the most advanced vehicles run on tracks, and all tracks are vulnerable (I know that sometimes tracks come undone in simple day-to-day exploitation). When a tank is hit in the track it is a mobility kill. I think the sentence should be removed or somehow changed.209.181.58.51 (talk) 08:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
First the letters RPG, PG, & OG are really РПГ, ПГ, and ОГ respectively. They are acronyms for the words: РУЧНОЫ ПРОТИВОТАНКОВЫ ГРАНАТ or ГРАНАТОМЕТ (Ruchnoy Protivotankovy Granatomyot). The word РУЧНОЫ translates to, Hand or Manual depending upon usage. The word ПРОТИВОТАНКОВЫ translates into Antimechanized which in the USA we would say Anti-tank. The word ГРАНАТ means fired; ГРАНАТОМЕТ translates into launched, projected or fired by shoulder depending on the translation source.
РПГ would then mean Hand Fired (or utilized) Antitank, ПГ Shoulder Fired Antitank.
The Soviet Character "O" when used on ordnance does mean High Explosive. So ОГ would translate to Shoulder launched High Explosive.
I think there is some confusion about what RPG "IS" The RPG-2 and RPG-7 are launchers. The PG-2(Chinese Type-56), PG-7 and OG-7 are the ammunition for their respective launcher. PG indicates anti-tank (HEAT) and OG indicates HE (fragmentation). So the RPG-7 is capable of firing the PG-7* and OG-7*. The PG-7* does have a rocket motor that ignites after it clears the launcher. The PG-2 and OG-7* do not have a rocket motor and are propelled solely by the expulsion charge within the launcher. There is an RPG equivalent to the U.S. M72 LAW, in the RPG-16 (which fires the PG-16 rocket) There are RPGs that are in fact hand grenades The PRG 43 is one example. I think this is where some of the confusion comes from. The RPG 43 is an anti-tank hand grenade however the base of the acronym RPG in this case are slightly different Russian words (Ruchnaya Protivotankovaya Granata). The Term RKG is used on current Hand anti-tank grenades as the post above implies (as in the RKG-3)
Therefore:
RPG-2 = Hand anti-tank launcher/weapon PG-2 = Anti-tank projectile
RPG-7 = Hand anti-tank launcher/weapon PG-7 = Anti-tank rocket OG-7 = High explosive Projectile
RPG-43 = Hand Grenade anti-tank RKG-3 = Hand Grenade anti-tank RETEODSFC (talk) 21:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank You for the correction.
I incorrectly stated "O" as a marking on russian ammunition indicated Fragmentation.
Oф Is normally used on gun or cannon ammunition to indicate ordnance inteneded to produce fragmentation.
However when an RPG or other recoiless gun/rifle is used to fire the ammunition they are simply labeled as "ОГ" which would indicate a primary filler of High Explosives.
The rough translation in how ordnance is marked would be:
O = high explosive > U.S. ammunition would be marked "HE" (high Explosive)
Oф = High Explosive Fragmentation > U.S. ammunition would be labeled "APERS" or "HE"
My main intent however, was to say that an RPG was in fact the launcher and the PG or OG is the amminition used in the launcher, That they all do not have rocket motors, and the fact that not all are anti-tank as in the OG.
I am sorry if I caused any confusion.
I do not speak russian but I teach Ordnance Identification and understand what the markings mean and how they are applied. It may be incorrect but my books say Граната can translate to grenade or projectile/shell, Ракета is rocket and Ракетњій is a rocket warhead or "rocket projectile" is this incorrect?
RETEODSFC (talk) 20:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed this from line 2 of the article: RPG is a transliteration of РПГ, the Russian abbreviation of Reaktivnyy/Ruchnoy Protivotankovyy Granatomyot (реактивный/ручной противотанковый гранатомёт), "jet/hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher".
RPG stands for Rocket-Propelled Grenade. If you can prove me wrong with a reliable, citable WP:SOURCE that states that the RPG acronym actually comes from Russian, then please add the information back, but you must include an inline citation. Tempshill (talk) 06:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
This article contradicts itself. The opening paragraph disagrees with the article itself. It says modern tanks are not vulnerable to rpg's. Yet in the article it states how rpg's can cause mobility kills. The article is missing 2 instances of modern tanks being penetrated by rpg-29's In 2004 a m1a2 abrams was penetrated by a "mystery" projectile that entered through the side and embedded in the oppisite wall. No casualties but still a penetration. I read in the edit section of a 2nd incident where a Challeger 2 had a rpg-29 go through ERA and the super tough frontal arc composite armor. This should be listed. The article states how hezbollah used rpg-29's and other atgms to take out 50 tanks. SO how can it be that modern tanks are not vulnerable. In the Chechnya section it fails to mention that up to 80 t-80 tanks were damaged by rpg team. The t-80 is a modern tank(although the armor under the era is weaker than western tanks and the t-90) it is still a modernt tank entering service around the time of the m1. My biggest probelm is that the opening paragraph contradicts what you read in the article regardless of my opinion. A better sentence would be modern tanks are only vulnerable to penetration from newer rpg's like the rpg-29 while older models can cause mobility kills and damage other systems on the tank. Tell the russians in chechnya that rpgs are no worry for tanks and he will laugh in your face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.198.79 (talk) 13:04, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed the following para from the Lebanon section as none of it seems to be actually about RPGs. Ashmoo (talk) 12:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Two tanks were completely destroyed by powerful improvised explosive devices, although one was equipped with underside armour, which limited its casualties to 1 of the 7 soldiers inside. The Israeli military said that it was satisfied with the tank's performance, and linked problems to lack of proper training prior to the war.[1][2]
References
Hey, im pretty new here, is it ok if I put down the countries that use the RPG? and if so, can I put down conflicts where it has been used? Bhatti53534 (talk) 14:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
The RPG is NOT a weapon, it is an ammuntion type that rocket launchers fire.
This article needs streamlining - it would seem appropriate to have an article about the Soviet/Russian weapon 'family' on wikipedia (although as discussed above the title should probably be RPG (Weapon) and not Rocket-propelled Grenade), but the information about other weapons would appear to be more suited to the Shoulder-launched missile weapon or ATGW articles. Jellyfish dave (talk) 15:35, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
RPG stands for something like shoulder-fired anti-tank rocket in russian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.53.159.220 (talk) 13:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
OK guys. I see you have a little confusion with abbreviation RPG. RPG stands for 3 different kinds of weapons, although all of them are designed to destroy tanks and other armored vehicles.
Here's a list I found elsewhere of people who are "incorrectly" using the term RPG:
It should be pretty clear from this that RPG does stand for "Rocket Propelled Grenade" in modern English, regardless of what it used to stand for. Herr Gruber (talk) 18:42, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Calling the current sources "high school" or "dubious" or "not adequate", however often repeated, is still just an opinion. The more you keep repeating this with nothing to back it up, the more it sounds like WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Until alternative sources are found, there's nothing left to discuss. --A D Monroe III (talk) 19:46, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I've restored this fact to the article: this is reverse Randy-ism (whereby a cited fact is being removed from an article because an editor decides he doesn't agree with it). It is beyond stupid to suggest that we're better off misleading our readers by omission (and thus implying that the completely unnatural term "rocket-propelled grenade" is an original English formation) than citing evidence that it's derived from the Russian abbreviation. In the worst case, we need a better citation for the claim that the English expansion of the term is a backronym. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:50, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
The Panzerfaust article states: "The basic concept was that of a recoilless gun; neither the Faustpatrone, nor its successor the Panzerfaust were rockets." [for "rockets" presumably read "rocket launchers"?] However, this page http://www.worldwar2aces.com/panzerfaust.htm says they were. I'm confused - can anyone clarify this? Notes: 1) There was a weapon used in WWII called the Panzerschreck which the article describes as an "anti-tank rocket launcher" (yet the Panzerschreck isn't mentioned in this article on rocket-propelled grenades) 2) There's a weapon called the Panzerfaust 3 which the article describes as either an "anti-tank rocket launcher" or a "rocket-propelled grenade" [are those terms totally synonymous or are there differences?] [I Googled, but couldn't find out if there ever was a Panzerfaust 2]
Isn't the bazooka the first RPG? If so, shouldn't it get more than a passing mention? Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
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Just merge it with that. It would solve the problem of having an entire page dedicated to an incorrect name for anti-tank rocket launchers 2A02:810B:4B3F:FF08:8143:EDB1:8F2D:3DB9 (talk) 05:37, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Seconding this suggestion, and I'm actually surprised that almost a whole year has passed without any discussion on it. MarqFJA87 (talk) 02:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
If a shoulder-fired missile is a broader category, then which shoulder-fired missile is not a rocket-propelled grenade? Could you give me one example? You might say: "a recoilless rifle", but does it change anything when a projectile can be fired from one's shoulder? 85.193.215.210 (talk) 15:12, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
in this tab of this page, the infobox for the challenger 2 is broken. - MountainKemono (talk) 14:33, 6 March 2023 (UTC)