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@Fowler&fowler: The word impact is discouraged by practically every writers/style guide out there because it's an overused and usually misused buzzword. To be using it in a wiki, especially when it is abused with phrases like "significantly impact" proves this point. I am quite curious why you keep reverting such a straightforward change, especially given your lack of reasoning for keeping it the way it is. Getsnoopy (talk) 07:49, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, but this prescriptism goes to far. Dravidian and Southeast Asian languages were deeply structurally altered in such a way that "impact" is an adequate metaphor. Please read the first line in this article by R. O. Winstedt. Here's the "buzzword" in "business jargon". –Austronesier (talk) 12:56, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Oxford Learner's Dictionary on "impact (noun)"
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...but oddly enough, the impact of her great civilization on the Malay world has been slight.Even if one were to assume the word is being used figuratively (which it is), it goes on to say that the "impact" has "been slight". "Impact", used figuratively, means "a strong/marked influence"; so was it a strong marked influence or not? It's clear that that author's oxymoronic use of the word "impact" is one that would be frowned upon by any usage guide, if simply the logic of that statement (or lack thereof) weren't enough to be convincing. That's not prescriptivism; that's simply incorrect. Getsnoopy (talk) 20:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Excerpts from the full OED (2nd edition, 1989) and the Oxford Dictionary of English (2010)
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Cambridge Guide to English Usage on "impact" as noun and verb
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variety of informative British writing in the BNC, suggesting that its currency is growing. The Oxford English Dictionary (1989) takes both constructions in its stride. |
Some think that only the vulgarians at the gate use impact as a verb. If you choose to defer to that opinion, fine, but do so understanding the wholly idiosyncratic nature of that judgment. The word impact derives from the past participle of impingere, a Latin verb. Moreover, impact has been used as a verb since at least the early seventeenth century. (All this information is readily available in the unabridged Oxford English Dictionary). Finally, the word compact shares part of the same root, compingere, and no one I know objects to the verb compact. Certainly, one might, ipse dixit, continue to insist that impact should never be used as a verb because of the widespread animus against that usage, but like other such rules, the rule would be idiosyncratic, arbitrary, without historical or logical justification.
The OED website is this. It requires a subscription. I've had one for nearly 20 years. Please tell me where the OED says what you claim it does. Until then please don't unilaterally change the phrasing on the page. Best rgards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
fig. Now commonly.... How many OED entries would you say are prefaced with "now commonly"? I've even showed you the usage note from the Lexico website, which is based on Oxford APIs that pull from the same site as the rest of Oxford content, say that it is jargon. @Austronesier: Regardless, I even conceded that the word can have figurative meaning, but figuratively, it means "a marked influence" or "strong influence". My contention is with misusing even the figurative term in phrases like "lasting impact" and "significantly impacted", which is redundant and makes it seem like the writer does not know what the word means. Dismissing all of the sources I've referred to which either label it as jargon or outright discourage its use and obstinately refusing to reword the phrases using words I've suggested that convey the same meaning without the word misuse, that's what actually amounts to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Saying that me being able to understand something enough to be able to paraphrase it in a better way amounts to it being personal preference is like saying that I can understand terms like "dying of laughter" to be figurative, so one should not edit an article if it has such a sentence. Getsnoopy (talk) 01:03, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
Lexico-"Oxford UK English" does because it is written for Spanish speakers.It's now clear you know nothing about Lexico. The Spanish part of Lexico didn't even exist a year ago. Furthermore, I've used Oxford dictionaries for over 25 years now as well. Writing inflammatory remarks and striking them through as if they should not be read / never happened hearkens back to school examinations, and isn't doing you any favours since I can clearly read what you wrote. Perhaps stop with the insults and stick to the topic at hand?
with guns blazingReally? That is ridiculous. As for soliciting others' opinions, I want to do that now. I really didn't think changing a single word would attract such clamour, but I do feel strongly about using the word "impact" and its air of jargon in an encyclopedia article, especially given the sources I presented.
Getsnoopy had never made an edit on the Sanskrit page until late December 2020. In his second edit a week later, he took aim at all instances of "impact" in the article...It sounds like you have issue with my pedigree with this article more so than the actual content of my changes. This is not in the spirit of WP nor professional behaviour. I really should not say this, but in the course of this long discussion, I've had 2 other editors reach out to me privately about your behaviour and how they appreciate me challenging your behaviour (though that wasn't my goal at all). That should really give one pause. Getsnoopy (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
"those sentiments should be directed to Fowler&fowler"No, they shouldn't. F&F may have been brusque, but he hasn't made a song-and-dance over a word the use of which is still largely a matter of preference. If you feel so strongly about it, you should go and get the MOS amended. If other users are concerned about my behavior, they ought to take it up with me; given how much harassment I've endured with respect to Indian history, I do not set much store by private messages any more, I'm afraid. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:28, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I just thought I'd raise this because my attempt to reinstate the IPA pronunciation of Sanskrit (and the audio sample for it) just got reverted by Dyḗwsuh₃nus on the basis that it was an inaccurate pronunciation of that word. However, while I can understand the reasoning for that reversion, I definitely think there should at least be an IPA pronunciation here because most language articles here in Wikipedia have IPA pronunciations featured (Latin is also a classical language like Sanskrit and it has IPA featured in its page) and it also gives more purpose for the IPA Help page for Sanskrit (whats the point of even having that if its excluded from its own article because of one incorrect transcription?) so its absurd in my opinion to exclude that just because the pronunciation appeared innaccurate (it would have been far better in my opinion to just correct the IPA according to the IAST transcription rather than remove it entirely). I'd be grateful if anyone here can please point me in the right direction on this or give me an example of a more accurate IPA for "saṃskṛtam" (for that I request anyone who either speaks Sanskrit or has enough knowledge on it to comment on that), many thanks. Otherwise if there is no response to this after a while, I will look at the romanisation of "saṃskṛtam" carefully and try to reinstate it myself again (and if I believe reversions for that are wrong, I won't hesitate to revert back if necessary). Broman178 (talk) 14:43, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
This page undergoes a slow edit war about the revival of Sanskrit, with focus on speaker data in the infobox. The content swings between the extremes of "no native speakers", based on sources that do not cover the revival movement at all, and the uncritical inclusion of self-declared census data from India and Nepal.
Ideally, the question is not settled in the infobox, but in the main text which should reflect the revival effort and its result as covered in relevant and reliable sources. The fundamentalist platitudes ("Dead!" ~ "Not dead!" ~ Dead!" ~ "Not dead!" ad nauseam) of the Pollocks and Malhotras in their ivory towers won't answer the question, nor will primary sources like census data do so, but only case studies and surveys that actually scrutinize the extent of Sanskrit revival in the field and the factual language that is spoken in revivalist communities.
Obviously, we need sources like this one[2], in order to present the topic in an encyclopedic and ideology-free manner. I will try to look for more apt sources and make some additions based on these sources later, but want voice my feeling of "enough is enough" anyway, which is maybe shared by other page watchers, too. –Austronesier (talk) 12:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
How do we actually define a native speaker? Don't we consider someone who speaks Sanskrit at home or their children who grew up to listening to their parent's Sanskrit, a native speaker like this one?[1], Having said that their numbers are much less because of the India's huge population, but they are out there. I personally know few of them. 223.29.193.66 (talk) 06:56, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
References
This section seems to attribute the decline of Sanskrit entirely to the advent of Islamic power, which is a dangerous and politically charged idea. It does not say this directly, but the absolute lack of any other factors in this treatment is problematic. I have added a sentence on the role of vernacular languages to start alleviating this. I find this part, cited from Pollock, particularly troubling: "Sanskrit literature there disappeared, perhaps in the "fires that periodically engulfed the capital of Kashmir"". This is cited entirely out of context; the actual source states clearly that it is possible historical data such as texts and manuscripts may have disappeared in these fires, leading to our present ambiguity about what happened in that period. The phrasing distorts this meaning, implying that the fires and Mongol invasion stopped literary production, which is not what the writer intended to say. Gowhk8 (talk) 17:06, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
This edit request to Sanskrit has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Let me edit the first paragraph. 2601:641:C000:AEF0:ADEA:417D:A1ED:B69 (talk) 02:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
Given that the usage of the word impact is figurative in all instances in the article and is prefaced or otherwise surrounded by language that conveys "significance", should the instances of the word be reworded?
—Getsnoopy (talk) 09:14, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Quotes from Tim Dyson's A Population History of India, OUP, 2019
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Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:19, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
to use "lasting" and "significant" with "impact" is not a tautologyOne could argue that "lasting" might not be, but "significant" is. That's exactly the definition of the word impact: "a marked/significant influence". Merely claiming that things like the WP style guide, let alone external style guides, are subject to personal preference does not make it so. Writing "significant impact" is like writing "ATM machine" or "Indian chai tea latte". Getsnoopy (talk) 21:24, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Do note, that which I describe above is not something that you can determine from reading the dictionary entries for these words, but this describes general normal language usage, which ought to be followed in articles. Firejuggler86 (talk) 02:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
this describes general normal language usage, which ought to be followed in articlesDoes this mean WP articles will use phrases like per se (or even "per say") to mean "particularly", and the like? Who determines what normal usage is? And how does one settle disputes using reliable sources if someone disagrees with another?
to write that something "had an impact" without any qualifier for the word impact would be an almost meaningless statement.I think what you mean is that you interpret it as such, which is therefore your (albeit controversial) opinion. It's another matter that almost no source would agree with you. Getsnoopy (talk) 22:14, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
@Spudlace: Many apologies for not furnishing the evidence I had promised in my interchange with you. This RfC, sputtering along as it has been for two months, went off my spheres of attention. The expressions "lasting impact" and "significant impact" are both used in the context of scholarly studies in Sanskrit. Here are just four examples.. Michael Witzel is the Wales Professor of Sanskrit at Harvard, Patrick Olivelle is a Professor of Sanskrit and Indian Religions at the University of Texas, Austin; Aloka Parasher-Sen is Professor of History at the University of Hyderabad, India, where she is also Dean of the School of Social Sciences; and Kim Plofker is an Associate Professor of Mathematics at Union College; her magnum opus is Mathematics in India, Princeton University Press, 2009.
Persian cultural influence on India, including that emanating from the Near East, is visible in some new ideas in public administration, road building, town planning, public buildings, and Persian eclectic art, that is seen in Asoka's pillar capitals. However, the most important and lasting imact was the introduction of writing in Gandhara and the Panjab.
It is pointed out that whereas in the Vedic context of the Atharva Veda the suprahumans were conceived of as spirits of life, fertility, and joy that were eternally free, a new dimension was added to these interactions with humans when these spirits were assimilated into the narrative of the epics. ... In the Ramayana, the forest spirits are unequivocally represented as evil forces that have to be totally eradicated and destroyed. ... The sojourn of the brahmanas and ksatriyas in the forest and their interaction with these suprahuman spirits had a significant psychosocial impact during later centuries.
Foreign sciences became more and more widespread in India during this period, and had a sporadic but significant impact on mathematical sciences in Sanskrit
While astrolabes and zij-style tables had a significant impact on the practice of second-millennium Sanskrit astronomy, other aspects of Islamic mathematical science apparently produces no detectable effects.
@SpacemanSpiff: Please note that this RfC began on March 11. It is now nearly two months later. There is no consensus that the expression "significant impact," "lasting impact," is either syntactically unsound or stylistically frowned upon. Could you or some other admin @Vanamonde93: (who engaged Getsnoopy upstairs), please close the RfC? As you will see, in this history, after Firejugller86's post of March 24, no one has posted other than the nominator and my response now to Spudlace above. In my count, three editors (Austronesier, Firejuggler86 and I) have voted for Option C (no change in phrasing). Two (user:Pat and the nominator) have voted for option A; and one (Spudlace) has said, "Support using "effect" if it will improve the article. Howsoever you parse the last, there is no consensus for a change. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:06, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
@TrangaBellam: Regarding this edit diff, what exactly you found to be a Questionable sources including conf. papers, and Hindutva propagandists. Fringe territory
? Reception in computing, unlike S. Asia, doesn't fit into your idea of "hindutva"
framework. These are scientific papers with well presented results, unlike scholarships in S. Asian history. —Wiki Linuz ( 💬 ) 19:48, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
These are scientific papers with well-presented results, unlike scholarships in S. Asian history.- While I do not work in NLP, I teach statistics in university for a living and have a fair idea of recognizing valid scholarship (and their impact) in science. Crying hoarse about scholarship in S. Asian history won't help.You cannot cite conference papers which are hardly cited by anybody - including a 40-year-old article and of all people, Subhash Kak - claiming Sanskrit to be something extraordinary unless tertiary scholarship supports such an assessment. I checked a few textbooks, taught at the undergrad and postgrad level in reputed universities, and failed to find anything on Sanskrit. If I am wrong, disprove me and insert back at our article on Sanskrit grammar. TrangaBellam (talk) 21:11, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
hardly cited by anybody, actually no; the sources that I cited through Gérard Huet or Rick Briggs's works have a major reception in computational linguistics. The other papers adds upon this structure through analyzing and unit testing the specialized NLP models and featuring the results. And I don't understand how publishing year of the theoretical modeling matters, given that, Turing machines are cited till date for obvious reasons. I don't know which
reputed universities'texts you're referring to, but “text books” in computer science doesn't exactly play the same role as it does in mathematics or history. The models, specifically in computer science, are presented through scholarly research conferences or papers through reliable medium like IEEE, ACM and such (and usually implemented from there on), and doesn't necessarily be presented in a text book. Not sure why you'd detract Kak's work on this, given that he's a trained scientist, although the material isn't primarily sourced from him. However, I consent that it best fits Sanskrit grammar. Given this, the materials cited in relevance to NLP doesn't violate the policies. —Wiki Linuz ( 💬 ) 23:33, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
It seems a bit misleading to list South Africa as recognizing Sanskrit as a minority language in the infobox. What the constitution says is that the national language board must promote respect for languages used for religious purposes such as Sanskrit. That seems distinct from recognizing it as a minority language, and so I feel that it should be removed from the infobox (was added in August) 157.157.113.198 (talk) 08:55, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
Sanskrit is still used in India by native speakers.[1][2][3][4] Egon20 (talk) 09:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
References
It's not without interest that Sanskrit has left its traces even in Christianity [[3]] --Hellsepp (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 18:12, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Hello all,
Recently I made a few minor copyedits to the page Sanskrit, but @Fowler&fowler: reverted it, saying it was nonconstructive.
These are the corrections I made:
Do you think my changes are good or bad? After all, Fowler said it was nonconstructive but recommended that I bring it up on the article's talk page. I left a message on their talk page too, but seeing as they do not respond to messages left by others, I thought it better to bring it up here where everyone can discuss the issue.
Cheers, 98.179.127.59 (talk) 03:39, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Proto Dravidian is a completely reconstructed and speculative language, which means modern linguists created these words, which means there is no 1st source that has Paḷam as a fruit. Matter of fact meaning of Phálam in Sanskrit as fruit is only a part of it (abbreviations according to any model dictionary ; You'll see, in definition of Phála many words such as, Krishna, Ratnava, etc. They're to be prefixed with the main word Phála, i.e. Phálakrishna, Phálaratnava, etc.):-
फ - pha (only L.), mfn. manifest; m. a gale; swelling; gaping; gain ; ^vardhaka; =yak- s/ia-iiiil/iann ; n. flowing; bursting with a popping noise ; bubbling, boiling ; angry or idle speech.
फल् - Phal, cl. I. P. (Dhatup. xv, 9) pha- lati (ep. also A. te; pf. paphala, MBh., 3. pi. pheluh, Bhatt.; cf. PSn. vi. 4, 122 ; aor. aphdlit, Gr.; fut. phalishyati, MBh.; phalitd, Gr.), to burst, cleave open or asunder, split (intrans.), MBh. ; R. &c.; to rebound, be reflected, Kir.; BhP.; (Dhatup. xv, 23 ; but rather Nom. h.phala below) to bear or produce fruit, ripen (lit. and fig.), be fruitful, have results or consequences, be fulfilled, result, succeed, Mn. ; MBh.; Kav. &c. ; to fall to the share of (loc.), Hit. ; to obtain (fruit or reward), MBh.; to bring to maturity, fulfil, yield, grant, bestow (with ace., rarely instr.), MBh.; Kav. &c. ; to give out, emit' (heat), Kir.; (Dhatup. xx, 9) to go (cf. t/pal) Caus. phdlayati, aor. aplphalat, Gt.(cf.phdlita): ^>es,\A.piphalishati,Gt.: Intens. pamphulyate,pamphuliti,pamphulti, ib. [Cf. +/sphat, spkut; Germ, spalten; Eng. split^\
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Now this:- फल - Phála, n. (ifc. f. a or i) fruit (esp. of trees), RV.&c. &c.; the kernel or seed of a fruit, Amar.; a nut- meg, Susr.; the 3 myrobalans ( = tri-phala, q. v.), L. ; the menstrual discharge, L. (cf. pushpa) ; fruit (met.), consequence, effect, result, retribution (good or bad), gain or loss, reward or punishment, advantage or disadvantage, KitySr. ; MBh.; KSv. &c. j benefit, enjoyment, Pancat. ii, 70; compensa- tion, Yjjn.ii, 161; (in rhet.) the issue or end of an action, Das. ; Ssh. ; (in math.) the result of a calcu- lation, product or quotient &c., Suryas. ; corrective equation, ib. ; Gol.; area or superficial contents of a figure, Aryabh. ; interest on capital, ib. ; the third term in a rule of three sum, ib., Sch. ; a gift, dona- tion, L. ; a gaming board, MBh. [cf. Goth, spilda; Icel. spjald}; a blade (of a sword or knife), MBh. ; R.; Kum.; the point of an arrow, Kaus.; a shield, L. ; a ploughshare (p/idla), L.; a point or spot on a die, MBh. iv, 24 ; m. Wrightia Antidysenterica, L.; (a), (. a species of plant, Car.; w. r. for tufa, Heat.; (f), f. Aglaia Odorata, L.; a kind of fish ( =phali), L. - kaksha, m. N. of a Yaksha, MBh. kantaka, f. Asclepias Echinata, L. kalpa- lata, f. N. of wk. kankahin, mfn. desirous of reward, Kum. kama, m. desire of reward, Jaim. kamana, f. desire of a r'sult or consequence, W. -kSla, m. the time of fruits, MW. krishna, m. Carissa Carandas, L. ; -pdka, m. id., L. kesa- ra, m. ' having hairy fruit,' the cocoa-nut tree (the f of which is covered with a fibrous coat resembling hair), L. kosa (Susr.) or saka (L.), m. sg. and du. 'seed receptacle,' the scrotum. khandana, n. fruit destruction, frustration of results,MW. khau- dava, m. the pomegranate tree, L. khela, f. a quail (=phdla-kh), L. tjrantha, m. a work describing the effects (of celestial phenomena on the destinyof men),VarBrS.,Sch.; N.ofwks. trraha, mfn. ' receiving fruits,' deriving profit or advantage, BhP. ; m. the act of doing so, Satr. - grab! (TS. ; AitBr.; Kith.) or -irrahishnn (SSiikhSr.), mfn. fruit-bearing, fruitful. grahin, m. a fruit tree, L. ghrita, n. 'fruit-ghee,' a panic, aphrodisiac, SarngS. ; a medicament used in diseases of the uterus, ib. caudrika, f. N. of sev.wks. camasa, m. a cup containing pounded figs (with young leaves and sour milk instead of Soma), KatySr., Sch.; Jaim.; (others 'ground bark of the Indian fig-tree with sour milk'). caraka, m. 'fruit-distribution,' a panic, official in Buddhist monasteries, L. coraka, m. a kind of perfume, L. cchadaua, n. a house built of wooden boards, L. tantra, mfn. aiming only at one's own advantage, Kum., Comm. tas, ind. in relation to the reward or result, Apast. ; conse- quently, accordingly, virtually, MW. til, f. the being fruit, the state of f, Kathas. traya, n. 'f-triad,' the 3 myrobalans, L.; 3 sorts of f col- lectively (the f of the vine, of Grewia Asiatica or Xylacarpus Granatum and Gmelina Arborea), ib. trika, n. ' f-triad,' the 3 myrobalans, ib. tva, n. = -id, KathSs. da, mf(a)n. ' f-giving,' yield- ing or bearing f, Mn. ; bringing profit or gain, giving a reward, rewarding, giving anything (gen. or cqmp.) as a reward, BhP.; Bhartr.; Kathas. &c.; a f tree, tree, L. danta-vat, mfn. having fruit- teeth or fruit for teeth, Heat. d&trl or -dayin, mfn. 'f-giving,' yielding f, giving a result, MW. dipikS, f. N. of wk. dharman, mfn. 'hav- ing the nature of fruit,' ripening soon and then falling to the ground or perishing, MBh. nir- vrittt, f. = -nishpalti, KatySr. ; Jaim.; final con- sequence or result, W. nivritti, f. cessation of consequences, W. nishpatti, f. production of fruit, fulfilment of consequences, attainment of re- ward, Kap. m-dada, f. N. of a female Gan- dharva, Karand. pancamla, n. a collection of 5 kinds of acid vegetables and fruits, L. (cf. phal&mla- paiicaka). parinati, f. the ripeness of fruit, Megh. parinama, m. id., A. parivritti, f. a fruitful harvest, Ap. paka, m. the ripening of fruit (see below) ; the fulfilment of consequences, VarBrS. ; Carissa Carandas, L. (cf. pdka-phala and krishna-p-ph}; -nishlhd (Suir.), /W/o'(Mn..), kdvasdnd (L.), kdvasdnikd (L.), f. a plant end- ing or perishing with the ripening of f, an annual plant. pakin, m. Thespesia Populneoides, L. patana, n. knocking down or gathering f, Mn. padapa, m. a f tree, R. puccha, m. a partic. species of esculent root or bulb, L. para, n. N. of a city (=phalaka-p"), Rajat. -pu.sh.pa, (ibc.) fruits and flowers ; -vat, mfn. adorned with ft and fl, Heat. ; -uriddhi, f. increase or growth of fr & fl, MW.; 'pSpaiobhita, mfn. adorned with fr and fl, MW. pushpa, f. a species of date tree, L. ; Ipomoea Turpethum, L. pnshpita, mfn. covered with fr and fl, BrahmaP. -pushpi, f. Ipo- moea Turpethum, L. para, m. ' full of kernels,' the citron tree, L. puraka, m. id.,Bhpi.; (prob.) n, the citron, Car. pracayana, n. gathering fruits,ParGf. prajanana, n. the production of f,RSjat. prada, mfn. bringing profit or a reward, BhP. pradana, n. the giving of f (a marriage-cere- mony), BrArUp., Samk. pradlpa, m. N. of wk. prayukta, mfn. connected with or producing consequences, yielding fruit, W. prasuti, f. a growth of f, crop of r, Ragh. -prapti, f. obtain- ing (the desired) f or result, success, Ratnav. ; Ka. priya. f. Aglaia Odorata, L.; a species of crow, L. prepsu, mfn. wishing to obtain f, desirous of attaining results, R. bandhln, mfn. forming or developing f, Ragh. bhaksna, mfn. feeding on f; -id, f., Gaut. bhaga, m. a share in any product, shof advantage or profit, BhP. ; N. of wk. bhaffin, mfn. sharing in profit or advantage, par- taking of a reward, Mn. iii, 143. bhaj, mfn. re- ceiving fruit, sharing in a rew, MBh. bhnj, mfn. enjoying fruit, MW. ; m. a monkey, Prasannar. - bhuti, m. N. of a Brahman, Kathas. -bhumi, f. 'retribution-land,' place of reward or punishment (i.e. heaven or hell), Kathas. bhuyas-tva, n. a greater reward, AsvGr. bhrit, mfn. fruit-bearing, fruitful, KSv. bJioga, m. enjoyment of conse- quences ; possession of rent or profit, usufruct, W. bhogin, mfn. enjoying fruits or cons , receiving profits, ib. bhogfya, mfn. that of which one has the usufruct (a pledge), Yajn. - matsya, f. the aloe plant, L. maya, mf()n. consisting of fruits, Heat. mnkhya.f. a species ofplant ( = aja-moda), L. mudffarika, f. a kind of date tree, L. mula, n. sg. or du. or pi. fruits and toots, Mn. ; MBh.; R.; Kathas.; -maya, mf(f)n. formed of f and r, Heat. ; -vat, mfn. supplied with f and r, R. mnlin, mfn. having (edible) f and r, MarkP. yukta, mfn. connected with a reward, KatySr. yoga, m. the attainment of an object, Mudr. ; Sah. ; remuneration, reward, MBh. ; R.; (af), ind. because the reward falls to (his) share, KatySr. rajan, m. 'king of fruits,' a water-melon, L. rasi, m. the 3rd term in rule of three, Aryabh. Tat (phdla-), mfn. fruit-bearing, fructiferous, covered or laden with fruits, AV. ; VS. ; GrS. &c. ; yielding results, successful, profitable, advantageous, AV.;Apast.; Hit. (-id, f., Jaim.; Mcar. ; -tva, n., ChUp., Samk.; Sah.); having profit or advantage, Vop. ; (in dram.) containing the result or end of a plot, Sah. ; (ati), f. a twig of a partic. thorn tree ; (others' the plant/ry'a/cf./^a/'?),ShadvBr.; Gobh. ; N. of wk. vandhya, mfn. barren or desti- tute of fruits, not bearing f, L. (cf. phal&if). varti, f. (in med.) a suppository, SarngS. var- tula, m. Gardenia Latifolia, L. ; n. a water-melon, ib. valli.f. a series ofquotients, Aryabh. ,Comm.; Col. vakya, n. promise ofreward, KatySr., Comm. vikrayini, f. a female fruit-seller, BhP. vri- klha, m. a fruit tree, L. vrikahaka, m. the bread-fruit tree, L. iSdava, see -shadava. sa- lln, mfn. yielding wages, Kir. ; experiencing conse- quences, .sharing in results (//'-/f0, n.), L. sai- sira, m. Zizyphus Jujuba, L. sr eshtba, m. ' best of fruits,' the mango tree, L. shadava, m. the pomegranate tree, L. (written idf1 }. saip yukta, mfn. connected with a reward, KatySr. lam- yoga, m. the being conn with a r, Jaim. Bam- Itba, mfn. bearing fruit, MW. sampad, f. abun- dance of f, good result, success, prosperity, W. lambaddha, m. ' f-endowed,' the tree Ficus Glomerata, L. sambhava or -sambhS, mfn. produced in or by f, W. aambhfirS, f. ' having abundance of f,' the tree Ficus Oppositifolia, L. sahasra, n. a thousand fruits ; du. two thousand f, MW. _ B&mkarya-khandana, n. N. of wk. s&dhana, n. effecting any result, Kris, on Pan. ; a means of eff any r, W. siddhi, f. realising an object, success, a prosperous issue, Sah.; Kas. on Pan. stana-vati, f. (a female) having fruits for breasts, Heat. - stbana, n. the stage in which fruits or results are enjoyed, Buddh. sneha, m. 'having oil in its f ,' a walnut tree, L. haul, f. loss of f or profit, W. harm, mfn. f-seizing, stealing f, Pan. vi, 2, 79, Sch. -hari, f. N. of Kali (a form of DurgS), L. Una, mfn. ' yielding no fruits ' and ' giving no wages,' Pancat. hetu, mfn. one who has results for a motive, acting with a view to r, Bhag. PhalakankshS, f. hope or expectation of favourable consequences, ib. Phala- kaikshin, mfn. desirous of results, wishing for fa v" ons, ib. Phalagama, m. ' access of fruits,' pro- duction of f, load of f, Sak.; the fruit season, *utumn, R. Fualagra, n. 'f"-beginning," f-time, Hariv. ; -sdkhin, mfn. having fruits at the ends of its branches, ib. Phaladhya, mf(a)n. ' rich in f ,' covered with f, Mricch. ; Ragh.; (a), (. the wild plantain, L. Phaladana, m. ' f-eater,' a parrot, L. (cf. pkaldsana}. Fhaladhikara, m. a claim for wages, KatySr. Phaladnyaksha, m. ' super- intendent of f ,' Mimusops Kauki, L. Phalanu- bandha, m. sequence of results, the consequences or results of (comp.), SSntis. Phalanumeya, mfn. inferable from c or r, Ragh. Fhalanusarana, n. rate or aggregate of profits, MW. Plialanta, m. ' ending with fruit,' a bamboo, L. Fhalanve- shln, mfn. seeking f or results, looking for a re- ward, MW. Phalapurva, n. the mystic power which produces the consequences of a sacrificial act, Nyayam., Comm. Phalapeksha, f. regard to re- sults, expectation of cons , W. Phalapeta, mfn. deprived of fruit, unproductive, unfertile, ib. Pha- laphalikS, f., g. sdka-pdrthivddi. Phalabdhi, m. N. of wk. Fhalabhisheka, m. N. of wk. Phalabhoga, m. non-enjoyment of profits &c., MW. Fhalamla, m. Rumex Vericarius, L.; n. a tamarind, L. ; -pancaka, n. the 5 acid or sour fruits, viz. bergamot, orange, sorrel, tamarind and citron, L. (cf. amla-paftca 3.n& phala-pancdmla). Fha- lamlika, mfn. having anything made with sour fruit.Hariv. Phalftrama.m.afruit-garden, orchard, L. Fhalarthin, mfn. one who aims at fruits or reward, Pancat. ; thi-tva, n., Jaim. Fhalavan- dhya, mfn. not barren of f, bearing f, L. Fhala- sana, m. 'f"-eater ,' a parrot, L. (cf. phal&dana). Phalasin, mfn. feeding or living on f, Vishn. ; Susr. Phaiasakta, mfn. attached to f or results, acting for the sake of reward ; fond of f, seeking to pluck f, W. Phalssava, m. a decoction of f , Kathas. Phalasthi, n. 'having f with a hard rind,' a cocoa-nut, L. Fhalahara, m. feeding or living on f, Susr. Fhale-grahi, mfn. bearing f, fruitful, successful ( <=phala-j"), Malatim. ; Naish. (cf. Pan. iii, 3, 26). Phale-grahi or 'bin, mfn. b f, L. PhaUtara-ta, f. the being other than f, Da5. Pbal&ndra, f. a species of Jambu, Bhpr. Phale-paka, -pakS, -paku, g. nyahkv-ddi. Phale-pakin, m. Hibiscus Populneoides,L. Phale- pnshpB.f.Phlomis Zeylanica, Bhpr. Phale-ruha, f.Bignonia Suaveolens.ib. Phaloccaya,in. collecting or a collection of fruits,W. FhalottamS, f. ' best of f ,' a kind of grape without stones, L. ; the 3 myro- balans, L. ; the benefit arising from sacred study (?), W. ; a small sort of rope(?), W. Phalotpati(!), m. the mango tree, L. Phalotpatti, f. produc- tion of fruit, profit, gain, advantage, Pan., Sch. Fhalotpreksha, f. a kind of comparison, Kuval. Phalodaka, m. N. of a Yaksha, MBh. Phalo- daya, m. arising or appearance of consequences or results, recompense, reward, punishment (with gen. or loc. or comp.), Mn. ; Yajn.; R. &c. ; joy, L.; heaven, L. Phalodtrama, m. pi. development of fruits, Bhartr. Fhaloddesa, m. regard to results, W. Fb.alodbb.ava, mfn. obtained or derived from f, Susr. Phalonmukha, mfn. being about to give f, Mcar. Phalopagama, mfn. bearing f, Vishn. Fhalopajivin, mfn. living by the culti- vation or sale of f, R. Fhalopabhoga, m. enjoy- ment of f, partaking of reward or of the conse- quences of anything, Kap. Phalopeta, mfn. pos- sessing fruit, yielding fruit, MW. Pbalaka (ifc., f. ika)=phala, fruit, result, gain (-/z*fl, n.), Kull. on Mn. ii, 146; menstruation (cf. na-ua-phalika); (phdlaka), n. (m.,g.ardharcadi; ifc. f. a) a board, lath, plank, leaf, bench, Br. ; GrSrS., &c. ; a slab or tablet (for writing or painting on; also -= page, leaf), Kav. ; Yajn., Sch.; Lalit.; a picture ( = fitra-pV), Mricch. iv, J ; a gaming- board (cf. sdri-ph); a wooden bench, MBh.; a slab at the base (of a pedestal ; cf. sphatika-ph ) ; any fiat surface (often in comp. with parts of the body, applied to broad flat bones, cf. aysa-, phand-, laldta-ph &c.); the palm of the hand, SBr. ; the buttocks, L. ; the top or head of an arrow, Kull. on Mn. vii, 90; a shield, MBh.; bark (as a material for clothes), MBh. ; Hariv. ; the pericarp of a lotus, Sis.; -yantra, Gol. ; a layer, W. ; the stand on which a monk keeps his turban, Buddh. ; m. Mesua Roxburghii, L. ; (a or ika], {., see below. pari- dhana, n. putting on a bark garment, MBh. pani, m. a soldier armed with a shield, L. pura, n. N. of a town in the east of India, PSn. vi, 3, IOI (cf. phala-purct). yantra, n. an astronomical instru- ment invented by Bhas-kara, Gol. saktha, n. a thigh like a board, P5n. v, 4, 98, Sch. Fhalaka- khya-yantra, n.ka-yantra, Gol. Phalaka- vana, n. N. of a forest sacred to SarasvatI, Cat. ("ii-vana, MBh.) Pbalaka-sadana, n. the obtaining or reaching a plank (said of a drowning person), Ratnav. |
Hope this gets seen. If action is taken then I'll post more words. Yeshehat (talk) 16:22, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
I hope with above evidence, Phalam as a sanskrit word is noticed of. Yeshehat (talk) 16:24, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Hi can someone help me in pointing out the "polluted in" words by Sanskrit on Tamil? To be clear i want sanskrit words not used in Tamil. Thanks. Puppet reel (talk) 06:23, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Half of Tamil will be gone of you remove Sanskrit from Tamil. Be it New Tamil or Old Tamil (which is more Sanskritised). Almost all of the philosophical and scientific terminologies in Tolkāppiyam have originated from Sanskrit. Sanskrit has been in use from Cholan Dynasty, whose rulers claim they are direct descendents of Lord Rama. Yeshehat (talk) 16:36, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
I've given enough evidence for my edits, why people are persistent to change it back @Austronesier: Yeshehat (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
The sources are not getting published, I'm trying again Yeshehat (talk) 14:10, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
As I told, Proto-Dravidian is a completely reconstructed language. A reconstructed language cannot "debunk" a historical language or its etymology. Here are the sources:-
Dakṣiputra Pāṇini - Aṣṭādhyāyī (Original Yeshehat (talk) 14:14, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
I am unable to cite the website, as it's not getting published, so here is title of the dictionary:- Sanskrit-English dictionary etymologically and philologically arranged, with special reference to cognate Indo-European languages, by Monier Monier-Williams (Page 715-718)Yeshehat (talk) 14:25, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
www(dot)lexilogos(dot)com/english/sanskrit_dictionary.htm Yeshehat (talk) 14:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Very intellectual. So the "modern scholarly sources" will overcross the very creator of that language? More importantly even if you are overlooking the creator of Classical Sanskrit, Dakṣiputra Pāṇini, there are known modern scholars such as Professor E. Leumann, Ph.D. of the University Of Strassburg, Professor C. Cappeller, Ph.D.
Of The University Of Jena, Otto Bohtlingk and Rudolf Roth,
Professor A. Weber of Berlin. And of course, Monier Monier-Williams, elected to the Boden Professorship in the University of Oxford, the well known scholar and author of the book "Sanskrit-English dictionary etymologically and philologically arranged" is academically published by Oxford Press or University Press, Oxfors. Hope this is a credible source to the renowned and scholarly editors of this article. Regards. Yeshehat (talk) 17:21, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Here is the renowned scholar who has given etymology of Sanskrit words https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monier_Monier-Williams Yeshehat (talk) 10:59, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
You'll find the dictionary cited in Talk section there Yeshehat (talk) 11:04, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:37, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
This article has long used CE/BCE to refer to the eras. A few hours back Prophet of Truth and Knowledge (talk · contribs) changed that to AD/BC throughout the article with the edit-summary "If people are offended by the gregorian calender then they're free to use other calenders.". I reverted their edit and informed them about the relevant guideline MOS:ERA, which says An article's established era style should not be changed without reasons specific to its content; seek consensus on the talk page first (applying Wikipedia:Manual of Style § Retaining existing styles) by opening a discussion under a heading using the word era, and briefly stating why the style should be changed.
Unfortunately, instead of following that advice they simply reerted back to their preferred version. So I am starting this discussion to give them an oppurtunity to explain their edit-warring and so that others can chime in. Abecedare (talk) 00:07, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
The article downright says *the heading*. Recently from an RTI, the information was given by Union Home Ministry’s Registrar General and Census Commissioner office that there are 24,821 speakers of Sanskrit from Census 2011 (NOT of 2022, of which the data is in segregation as I write this), but the article completely turns a blind eye from this fact and Evidence 6 is about the village Jhiri, not of all of India, thus it's a false evidence keeping in mind entire India.
Evidence 7 is about Uttarakhand's CITIES and not of India, again, false evidence. Oxford University's data collection, again, is not from all of India.
The argument is fluctuations in the reported speakers of sanskrit from 1991 to 2001, which are now 20 years old and are again, turning blind eye to 2011 Census data. Even if we are keeping out the fluctuation data, there are still atleast thousands of "Sanskrit speakers" in India as opposed to the.... scholarlier claim of "No known speakers". I am to change it based on the official evidences directly from government, and not from "intellects" which haven't even done anything to collect data from whole of India and talking from just puny data collected Yeshehat (talk) 07:06, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/only-24821-people-in-india-have-sanskrit-as-mother-tongue-govt-data-14819891.htm If you're looking furthermore Yeshehat (talk) 07:07, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
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Change the IPA symbols for त,थ,द,ध from t,tʰ,d,dʰ to t̪ ,t̪ʰ ,d̪ ,d̪ʰ respectively which includes the diacritic for dental plosive which are missing from the original draft. This might unambiguously mistake it for foreign alveolar plosives. Suggested edit location: Phonology>Consonants> the table under 'Sanskrit consonants in the Devanagari script'>Row for dental plosives titled 'dantya'. AbhishekDixit638 (talk) 14:04, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
please mention devanagari script in the section of writing system Varenius101 (talk) 20:53, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited.The article fails this and the "hidden categories" show "Articles lacking reliable references from October 2014", and includes 2016, 2017, 2019, 2021, and 2022, and at least one subsection "needs additional citations". It does not take an expert in sourcing to know that there are enough issues to not jive with the criteria. I am reassessing the article to C-class per the criteria.
There are 11 entries in the "External links". An article can be promoted with none but three commonly used. Currently the section is a link farm and should be trimmed (maybe with a chainsaw) per ELPOINTS #3. -- Otr500 (talk) 00:14, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
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Change "Fruther reading" to "Further reading", assuming it is a typo. Vanitasvanitatum69 (talk) 23:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Sanskrit is a classical language since Millenia, therefore the quantity of fluent speakers is way more relevant than of native. However, is it needed 10 different sources to emphasize that in the whole 1.4 billion people of India there's not one native speaker? What is this? Really, I'm brazillian and this kind of high ideological hate makes Wikipedia disgusting, or, at least, english language based wikipedia... Have some shame, people. 191.210.247.108 (talk) 22:44, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
Bratha means brother in German, Slavic and Sanskrit. It would interesting if someone compiles a list.
Old English is similar old German later English was bastardized with Latin and French (Norman) influences.. 103.216.212.153 (talk) 10:56, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
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Please add, early in article the sentence 'akin to one of dialects of Classic Greek'
Source: 'Teach yourself... Sanskrit', Coulson As evidence: Ghossanna, used in Gospel as 'Hossanna', means in Sanskrit 'proclamation', a ceremonial salutation, as roman Ave, German Heil, english Hail. No need to remark the Seleucids, Greek invaders that gave martyrdom the Maccabean brothers, were there not much before Jesus, left other terms as holocaust, Synagogue, sanhedrin,... Urdu, Hindi, Bengalese , are Sanskrit or Prakrit derived languages, Prakrit being to Sanskrit what Vulgata was to Cult latin. Language in Pakistan derived from Sanskrit, but is written in Arab alphabet 81.44.88.66 (talk) 13:01, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
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change "Bengal This" to "Bengal. This" to add missing punctuation 142.115.189.7 (talk) 14:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
The table in the subsection "Pronunciation" has some issues that need to be fixed.
the tip of the tongue should be curled back further to the roof of the mouth; Cardona:
located at the area immediately behind the alveolar ridge (mūrdhanya [usually translated 'retroflex'])). Cardona explicitly uses the term retroflex in the further description, not only for the rhotic and the sibilant, but also for stops and nasals.
the Taittirīyaprātiśākhya notes that according to some the segment a in ai and au is a closer vowel than the usual a. Closer than a [ɐ] would be [ə]; Cardona does not say that it is not central like the usual a. So we should change [ɐi ~ ɛi] / [ɐu ~ ɔu] to [ɐi ~ əi] / [ɐu ~ əu], but note that this actually is an OR interpretation of the source. To be on the safe side, I suggest to only use [ɐi]/[ɐu] and a note in prose about the reported variation.
Also, I am not very happy about the use of ⟨ɑ⟩ in /ɑː/, /ɑj/, /ɑw/ for ā, ai, and au. None of the cited sources uses ⟨ɑ⟩. Only Goldman & Goldman's description for the layperson (pronounced like the o in "mom"
) might suggest [ɑː] for ā, but all sources that are more explicit about the exact phonetic nature of vowels describe it as central (and FWIW, Robert Goldman uses central or front [aː] when reading Sanskrit texts aloud). And /ɑj/, /ɑw/ are entirely unsupported by the sources. It's not just the ⟨ɑ⟩ that is wrong, but also the transcription of the second segment as glide; Cardona mentions that according to some traditions, the second segment was pronounced with an even longer duration than the a. Let's replace /ɑː/, /ɑj/, /ɑw/ with /aː/, /ai/, /au/.
Thoughts? If no one objects, I will change the tables in the next few days. –Austronesier (talk) 11:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sahitya (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:55, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
The following web-link was added:
Will an entry on that writing system for Sanskrit have to be made?
If so, how could it be titled? -- Apisite (talk) 22:34, 12 April 2024 (UTC)