Jewish history Template‑class

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This template was considered for deletion on 10 September 2013. The result of the discussion was "no consensus".

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Discussion ongoing at Talk:Gab_(social_network)#Article_part_of_"Articles_on_antisemitism"? on whether to attach AS sidebar to Gab has broader relevance here. 73.89.25.252 (talk) 01:19, 13 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Similar parallel discussions are happening at Talk:Parler. 73.89.25.252 (talk) 06:50, 15 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The fact that an entire section of this template about a long-running historical issue is centered on modern Internet sites strikes me as recentism PBZE (talk) 18:19, 8 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PBZE I can see where you're coming from, but I'm inclined to disagree; recentism would be if the sidebar only included the Internet section and contemporary antisemitism, or had a minimal inclusion of historical references. The sidebar currently lists people, events, manifestations, etc from many periods in history. 'On the Internet' is but one section. Removing the Internet section would kind of ignore how antisemitic beliefs have become so common today, and I'd argue the opposite of recentism (pastism?), if that's a thing. Blade Jogger 2049 ^Talk 01:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

BladeJogger2049 I find it a little weird that alt-right websites have this sidebar specifically, because they have a whole host of problems (like being white supremacist) and antisemitism is among one of them. They're primarily notable for being part of the modern alt-right, so the general antisemitism sidebar seems too broad. Although I can see why they'd be included anyway because the alt-right is the primary driver of antisemitism and it's difficult to find any modern manifestations of overt antisemitism that aren't alt-right, although there exists things like the Nation of Islam. It'd be more fitting if a more specific alt-right sidebar was created. I find it weird that those websites get this sidebar for such a broad topic and Nazism and alt-right don't. PBZE (talk) 06:02, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PBZE Whoops don't know how I missed your response, sorry for the delay. I do agree, most of these websites would fit well into an alt-right sidebar if that were created; I know they're already listed under the category box for alt-right. I've never made a new sidebar from scratch but I think it'd be a worthwhile project. Blade Jogger 2049 ^Talk 18:36, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@BladeJogger2049: See below; this sidebar has been removed from Parler. I am among those who are unconvinced that this sidebar should include any alt-right website, as antisemitism isn't their main focus, it's just one of many components. An alt-right sidebar would be appropriate. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:36, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Anachronist: Thank you for letting me know! And apologies for the delay I've been rather busy lately. The more I've thought about it I agree; unlike say Gab and other more explicitly Nazi-oriented sites, Parler's focus is too broad to include. Blade Jogger 2049 ^Talk 03:11, 7 April 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The outcome of the RFC at Talk:Parler#Part of a series on Antisemitism was to remove the template from that article. Insofar as articles listed in this template would be expected to include this template, I have removed the article from this template. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:33, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A number of recent additions to the associated people list should be removed. It's not at all clear why people such as Edsel Ford or Alfred Salon were added to this list. Ford's article makes no mention of anything related to antisemitism and the connection at Salon is weak as well. I have similar concerns with a number of the other recent additions. Springee (talk) 14:12, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agreed. And there is even less justification for the addition of Che Guevara and Enver Hoxha. I have also removed these undue and undiscussed additions. RolandR (talk) 16:53, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I feel the list is a bit arbitrary. I'm not sure the following are sufficiently prominent and/or prominent as antisemites, to be included: Baked Alaska, Arthur J. Jones, Ernest G. Liebold, Rick Wiles, Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, Horia Sima, A. C. Cuza, Octavian Goga, Gheorghe Buzatu, Nae Ionescu, Nichifor Crainic, Ioan Slavici, Revilo P. Oliver. It feels a bit presentist and US-centric: I'm not sure so many US right-wing activists should be listed, but I'm not sure which count as the most prominent. On the other hand, I would propose adding Heinrich von Treitschke, Wilhelm Marr, Richard Wagner, Karl Lueger, Father Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh, Charles Maurras. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:19, 2 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I also removed Revilo P. Oliver as our article on him doesn't have a citation for claim he was antisemitic, and he's not notable in a history of antisemitism. We need to make the list less arbitrary. Any thoughts? BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:39, 7 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agree, though it might be tricky, as this is not something for which I anticipate clear inclusion criteria. A simple if insufficient exclusion criteria would be: "the theme of antisemitism must be a significant portion of the subject's article". This was our explanation for excluding several subjects, and I think it is quite reasonable. Freelance-frank (talk) 12:01, 7 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good suggestion Freelance-frank. I think that works well. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

But also we'd need to be confident the figure was prominent enough (as well as notable for antisemitism enough) for inclusion. I'd suggest a metric might be something like: are they mentioned on the main antisemitism page or is there a good reason to think they could be. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:07, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I also noticed that Stepan Bandera was included. Yes, he held anti-Russian, anti-Polish and yes, antisemitic views. But was he notable specifically for his antisemitism? My understanding that the answer is "no". My very best wishes (talk) 13:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I double checked sources, and it indeed appears that the OUN was notable primarily for anti-Polish (and also anti-Russian) sentiment. Sure, most of the guys in this organization, possibly including Bandera, were also antisemites, but that was not something they primarily known for. Given no objections so far, I am going to remove it. My very best wishes (talk) 00:52, 8 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I added this article to the sidebar, IMO per the content of that article it fits hand in glove, also WP:BIDIRECTIONAL. I was reverted with the ES If you want to make such a contentious edit, try to gain consensus in the Talk page first. Opinions, editors? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:58, 21 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please make a case for such a highly contentious edit. It's not enough to assert that "it fits". And in the absence of a consensus, please do not again add this. RolandR (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It fits = The article discuss Anti-Semitism in detail. What makes it "contentious"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, it should be included. It's deeply anti-Semitic. Most of the sources that claim that it isn't are from Marxists. Titanium Dragon (talk) 14:18, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just looking at our article, I do not think that is true. The article includes statements from academic Yoav Peled, academic Iain Hampsher-monk, journalist Francis Wheen, and Chief Rabbi of the United Kingdom Jonathan Sacks. Unless I have missed something, none of these individuals are Marxists and all say that this text is not a good example of antisemitism.

Given that RS don't support the idea that this text is broadly antisemitic, it should not be included in this list. The reason is every other included article (outside of the "Opposition" segment) is unambiguously antisemitic. To add such an ambiguous work is to change what seems to have been the inclusion criteria thus far. Freelance-frank (talk) 15:24, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agree with removal from list as per Freelance-frank and other comments above. Does not fit in this list. BobFromBrockley (talk) 21:56, 19 September 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@User:Vitamortisachla "anti-Zionist antisemitism is far more prevalent" is your opinion, which I disagree with. Removing the link to the article seems to be a case of "I just don't like it". You are free to create an article on Anti-Zionist antisemitism if you so please. The solution here is to add more information to Wikipedia, not to censor it by removing things we don't like. I'd be happy to help you locate sources for your new article if you choose to create it. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 00:17, 28 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@User:Vitamortisachla Furthermore, your assertion that the sidebar insufficiently includes mention of anti-Zionist antisemitism is belied by the presence of the article on New antisemitism, which describes the notion that anti-Zionism is merely a disguise for antisemitism. Your claim is further belied by the presence of Three Ds of antisemitism, Working Definition of Antisemitism, Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party, Andinia Plan, Doctors' plot, Zionist Occupation Government conspiracy theory, and other articles that mention actual or alleged examples of anti-Zionist antisemitism. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 09:09, 28 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Let's try to gather consensus around the inclusion criteria for the "Prominent figures" list.

I propose we include prominent national leaders, and prominent leaders of antisemitic groups.

I doubt people that don't belong to either group can be considered prominent, and the sidebar section currently seems bloated, which "dilutes" it. DFlhb (talk) 04:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, but some of the leaders that are currently on the list, like Mahmoud Abbas, maybe shouldn't be on there. Labeling people as anti-Semitic is potentially libelous. ____318____ 21:16, 17 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The names included should be names that would significantly feature in a history of antisemitism. Mahmoud Abbas does not fit that criterion. Including so many minor current US far right activists, such as Steven Anderson (pastor), Andrew Anglin, Mike Enoch, Nick Fuentes, Jason Kessler, David Lane, Kevin Alfred Strom, Weev, Bill White (neo-Nazi), Rick Wiles,

lead to recentism and US-centrism. Several Romanians are here who are clearly important to the history of antisemitism in that country, but not globally, and should be trimmed: Gheorghe Buzatu, Nichifor Crainic, A. C. Cuza, Octavian Goga, Horia Sima. As per Firefangledfeathers below, Tila Tequila should also be removed. As nobody has disagreed to the proposals elsewhere on this page for removing these names, I will now do so. What about Bobby Fischer?

On the other hand, some historical figures who we might consider adding: Arnold von Uissigheim, Simon de Montfort, Edward I of England, Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile, Peter Stuyvesant, Bohdan Khmelnytsky, Joseph Arthur de Gobineau, Louis de Bonald, Charles Maurras, Édouard Drumont, Maurice Barrès, Alfred Rosenberg, Wilhelm Marr, Reinhard Heydrich, Charles Lindbergh. And maybe Adolf Stoecker? And Joseph Stalin? I'll add the most important ones now, in case anyone objects to the less important ones here. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can an editor please give the justification/explanation of why the dreyfus affair is in the tropes section and not the persecution section? ModernMephisto (talk) 20:46, 27 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see your point, but the persecution article doesn't mention Dreyfus, while the tropes article does. This may be better brought up in the talk page for the Persecution article, or just boldly added wherever it fits in there. DFlhb (talk) 20:53, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Should we add Kanye West to the list of notable anti-semites? His negative views on jewish people and society is very well known and I believe he should be added to the sidebar. DiSantis19 (talk) 17:05, 6 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't think so. There are many very notable people who turn out to be antisemitic, of which West is the most recent major example. I generally don't think we should include such people, restricting the list to people for whom antisemitism is a major part of their notability, or whose views are influential on other antisemites. For these reasons, I'd also suggest we remove Tila Tequila. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:39, 6 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change Prominent Figures to include Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Vladimir Lenin, and Varg Vikernes, Henry Rothstein (talk) 19:25, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the ((Edit semi-protected)) template. M.Bitton (talk) 11:43, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add George Soros conspiracy theories to the "Manifestations" section of this template. - 87.58.32.220 (talk) 23:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sounds reasonable, although it might be better in the Antisemitic tropes section, and the sidebar's already rather long. Antisemitism is mentioned in the article lead. It's also supported by reliable sources such as The Washington Post, The Guardian, and The Atlantic. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 05:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 16:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please include the October 7th attack as a manifestation of antisemitism. Harbu Darbu (talk) 15:34, 12 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the ((Edit semi-protected)) template. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 20:52, 14 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]