This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, purge it.
Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.
When will my nomination be reviewed?
This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below).
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.
If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.
To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:
Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:
Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.
If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing ((subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes)) on the nominator's talk page.
Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed.
Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting.
Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed.
Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by KrinkleBot.
Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated).
Hook should make sense grammatically.
Try to vary subject matters within each prep area.
Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set.
Steps to add a hook to prep
In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote.
In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to.
Wanna skip all this fuss? Install WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :)
For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on DYK Queue.
Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number.
Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot.
Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end.
Check that there's a bold link to the article.
If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template.
Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the ((DYKmake)) and ((DYKnom)) templates) at the bottom
Check your work in the prep's Preview mode.
At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake.
Save the Prep page.
Closing the DYK nomination page
At the upper left
Change ((DYKsubpage to ((subst:DYKsubpage
Change |passed= to |passed=yes
At the bottom
Just above the line containing
))<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.-->
insert a new, separate line containing one of the following:
To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
Also paste the same thing into the edit summary.
Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like )), at the top or bottom.
Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line ((DYKsubpage with ((subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.
Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
View the edit history for that page
Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.
Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.
This is more of a comment than a review for now, but I have some reservations about the hook. For instance, the subject of the hook is Center squeeze, but the article is more about Burlington's second election. Unless you want to make it a double hook, I'm not sure if the current hook as written is appropriate or at least meets WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE regarding hooks being primarily about the subject. My suggestion would be to write a hook that's specifically about Center squeeze itself (perhaps something about its spoiler effect?), as opposed to a specific example. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed as best I could in Alt1b. I also added Alt0a, because I think an example of center squeeze is closely related (enough to satisfy the DYK guideline). I've also suggested the example of the AK special election, since I think it gets brought up in the lead of the article.– Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 15:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you clarify where/how? I can't see any, apart from the fictional example. That one doesn't have citations because I thought examples of basic computations didn't require sources; I've seen similar examples on other math pages.– Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 00:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My gut says the Alphabet example, First past-the-post and Ranked choice runoff sections shouldn't be there, although I'm not sure on what policy grounds. (Maybe WP:DUE?) The sentence beginning "In the 2009 election" needs a cite that isn't Wikipedia and there are two WP:MEDIUM sources - what makes them reliable?--Launchballer07:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the 2009 election is cited now. The Medium posts are written by a published expert in the field, and their claims are backed up by other sources I've added (but the blog posts have a more in-depth discussion).– Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 03:16, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Closed Limelike Curves: implied above that the Alphabet example came under WP:CALC, although I would argue that it probably isn't necessary when you have two further examples to illustrate the point and so I've cut the section. As for a review, this is long enough and new enough, with no QPQ needed. Earwig flags similarity with [1], but the article attributes this so this should be fine. If source #23 says what I think it says, then ALT4: ... that the center squeeze has been blamed for costing Gary Johnson the 2016 US election? is more interesting than all of the above hooks but probably should be added to the article.--Launchballer18:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
new enough, long enough, image is fine, qpq done. some concerns:
on the verge of rejecting alt0; to discover something, by definition, has to be an accident.
rejecting alt1; not mentioned in article. also, readers won't know what it means for a waterfall to go viral. it was an image of the falls that went viral, and that's uninteresting, a lot of things go viral.
rejecting alt2; uninteresting (and probably undue to mention in the article).
alt3/4's source says that Where the water comes from is still a mystery. it's not visible, yes, but it's also not known, unless there's something i'm missing.
refs 2, 3, and 7 are travel guides/blogs; are these reliable?
It receives over 500 tourists on weekdays and 1,000 on weekends is cited to a 2014 source and probably outdated
Don't know what's wrong with alt3 and 4, the blogs are reliable since these are usually for expansion and regularly do no harm in DYK. Fixed the outdated thing by adding a note. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗13:57, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. The blogs have been removed and replaced with better sources. I've also proposed other ALT hooks that are more specific about the origins of the water:
ALT5: ... that Asik-Asik Falls's (pictured) water comes from crevices in a cliffside? Source: INQUIRER-2
... that New Zealand mathematician Laurence Patrick Lee worked his way to England to find a cure for his stammer and was speaking normally after just 18 minutes of instruction?
Source: "N.Z. Man Cured Of Stammering By British 'Expert' ", Greymouth Evening Star, 11 Dec 1950, [N.Z.P.A. SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT], "When Mr L. P. Lee [...] read in a Jersey newspaper that Mr William C. Kerr, M.A., of St Helier, had discovered a cure for stammering he decided to get a year's leave of absence from the Lands and Survey Department and to work his way to England. ¶ Lee had been stammering all his life and he felt that Mr Kerr could help him. He worked as engineer’s steward in the Trojan Star, arrived in England on November 13 and 18 minutes after seeing Mr Kerr on November 18 he was speaking normally. ¶ Recorded Proof ¶ Mr Kerr took a recording of Lee stammering the date and time before instructing him. He took a second recording 18 minutes later with Lee now stating the date and time without stammering.
Reviewed:
Comment: Alternate hooks could talk about his map projections (and could include map pictures, if a picture is needed), but this story seemed like a better human interest hook.
Created by Jacobolus (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Length, history and reference verified. Earwig looks OK even though I couldn't use Google because it said we had sent too many queries to it. However ... the end of one graf was uncited, and so I have tagged it. It should be easy to fix. Daniel Case (talk) 19:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added some examples of other high impact books/papers which have cited and discussed Lee's paper (the claim in the article was that it was influential). –jacobolus(t)19:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay. All but one of those sources are paywalled from where I am, but since the one that isn't describes the cited paper as "well-known", we'll take your word for it. Daniel Case (talk) 17:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could go either way on this, but anyone else a little uncomfortable with sourcing a medical story claim to a 1950 newspaper? It's not a MEDRS claim, but it's not an uncontroversial one, either. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:45, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you can think of a better phrasing for a hook (or we could come up with an alternate hook not having to do with the stammer). The claim from the news article is that Kerr recorded Lee saying the date and time when he first arrived, stammering, and then 18 minutes later took another recording of him saying the date and time, not stammering – i.e. just saying one simple sentence, not an ability to fluently speak without stammering. (The news article author presumably listened to this recording.) Then he stayed for another few weeks with Kerr to work on it, and by the time he left he considered himself cured with only a slight occasional stammer remaining. I don't think the claimed "cure" here was ever perfect, but Kerr really did have a stammering clinic in Jersey for decades, apparently with significant success, with people coming from all over the world to work with him. After 1955 Kerr's clinic was hosted in this funny boat-shaped building in Jersey called "Barge Aground", which can nowadays be rented by tourists. There are a couple of pictures of Kerr here, and some other patients. –jacobolus(t)18:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the full news article:
N.Z. Man Cured Of Stammering By British “Expert” [N.Z.P.A. SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT] LONDON, December 10 (Rec. 9 a.m.).—When Mr L. P. Lee, of 195 The Terrace, Wellington, read in a Jersey newspaper that Mr William C. Kerr, M.A., of St Helier, had discovered a cure for stammering he decided to get a year’s leave of absence from the Lands and Survey Department and to work his way to England. Lee had been stammering all his life and he felt that Mr Kerr could help him. He worked as engineer’s steward in the Trojan Star, arrived in England on November 13 and 18 minutes after seeing Mr Kerr on November 18 he was speaking normally. Recorded Proof Mr Kerr took a recording of Lee stammering the date and time before instructing him. He took a second recording 18 minutes later with Lee now stating the date and time without stammering. Lee stayed with Mr Kerr for a fortnight and when he returned to London his brother Mr M. G. Lee, who is teaching at a college and who had been most sceptical was “astounded” at the change. Mr L. P. Lee told the Press Association: “I am thoroughly happy about the cure. I know that whenever I want to I can speak normally and I could even make a public speech now.” Only a slight occasional stammer is noticeable -in his speech and he counted rapidly up to 20. Discovery Made Mr Kerr said: “When I was a student at Glasgow University 16 years ago I had. to write a thesis on philosophy. In doing so I came across a psychological discovery. From this I discovered the cause and then the cure of stammering.” “Its taken me a long time and I’ve had to contend with a good deal of scepticism and' opposition. But I’ve had 90 per cent success with 50 cases. I’m not a doctor but I believe I have a mission and I am making this my life’s work. I charge a fee which I shall reduce as I get more patients,” stated Mr Kerr.
@Jacobolus and Launchballer: No, because "Kerr really did have a stammering clinic in Jersey for decades, apparently with significant success, with people coming from all over the world to work with him" is true, but when I dig through sources, many of them make his treatment sound ineffective:
"It was after his mother died when he was 15 that his dad found a "miracle cure" at an unusual school in Jersey. 'I was basically "cured" by being beaten up. I went to a school run by a man called Bill Kerr. He maintained stammering was a fear of words and if he could make your brain understand that stammering was scarier than speaking, he could cure you. We had to stand bolt upright, speaking slowly and if we stammered he hit us. Slapped round the face punched in the stomach, smacked in the back of the head. I ordered soup one night and I stammered and he dunked my head in the bowl. But after three days I was speaking for the first time in my life.'"[2]
"During our many exchanges, we discovered that (in the 1960's) we had both attended a two weeks course in Jersey (a small island located between the UK and France), run by the late Dr Bill Kerr (from Scotland). With his typical frankness, Marty often referred to Kerr as a charlatan."[3]
"I spent three intense weeks on the British Isle of Jersey at a 'school for stutterers' run by a scoundrel. Dr. William C. Kerr, Ph.D., as he insisted on calling himself, had steel-blue eyes and a ferocious temperament. He promised to cure his class of stutterers "in a fortnight," and indeed, he worked with me and seven other stutterers for twenty days, eight to twelve hours a day. As long as he held us in his intimidating gaze, we dared not stutter. Unfortunately, he was not for rent and did not travel. When I returned to the United States, I was still stuttering."[4]
Or the 'doctor of something or other who lived on the Isle of Jersey in the English Channel,' who sent Marty's father a written promise that he'd effect a cure 'in a fortnight.' So off to Jersey flew Marty, to confront a sergeant- major type whose idea was 'to toughen us up as if we were recruits in the British Army. . . . To stumble even the slightest bit was to provoke his fury. Not only would he yell at us (and, from six inches away, splatter us with spit), but he'd grab us by the shirt or the scruff of the collar and shake us out of our stammering softness,' Jezer writes. The doctor seemed to think that spontaneous speech was women's talk. Men . . . wouldn't squander their power with idle chatter. We were to be silent unless we had something important, manly, to say.' Lord, lord. And it all amounted, of course, to nothing. The Jersey doc could bully patients into brief stutter-free performances. Marty's parents wanted badly to believe he was cured. His father died in that belief. Marty's not cured, and lives with the fact that he never will be.[5][6]
"the late William Kerr, a roving unlicensed speech therapist from the Isle of Jersey [...] On the first day [of the Kerr course] we were gathering at the motel and going through the ritual of introductions. One man put his hand out to me and said, 'My name is ... uh ... actually . .. my name is Jim." Afterwards one of the other men in the group who had a highly noticeable stutter shook his head and said, in an aside to me, "What a fool! I'd rather stammer my head off than avoid like that. It looks ridiculous. People must think he's crazy' [...] The simplest way to conceal stuttering is to avoid speaking."[7][8]
Because asserting that a treatment worked once doesn't require asserting that it works in general; it's entirely possible that this story is true, whether by luck of the draw or complete coincidence, but Kerr is in general a charlatan. It's a narrow interpretation of MEDRS, and I probably wouldn't include the claim myself, but I don't think a meta-analysis is necessary to support the details of one person's life experience. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 05:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your research. Kerr's record does sound a lot more mixed than the couple other sources I found in my quick internet skim. I don't think it's a "miracle" if an aggressive (perhaps to the point of abusive) method was sometimes a complete failure and even source of trauma but also sometimes found some success and even appreciation from the patients. Whether or not it could be considered a "cure" by some rigid criteria (marketing + newspaper hype typically tends to moderate exaggeration), at least some people clearly felt that their stuttering was significantly ameliorated and their life was thereby improved. But I can understand your skepticism about promoting a controversial and probably now illegal medical treatment from the Wikipedia front page. I could try to come up with an alternative hook, but making a not-bland one about Lee's map projection work might require adding a bit more detail about that topic to the article / hunting for more sources: I know some things I personally appreciate about Lee's work, but I'm not sure if there's a good secondary source voicing those comments. –jacobolus(t)05:32, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I clicked through your first link, Rjjiii, and while the part you quoted makes Kerr's treatment sound outright abusive, the following paragraph also makes it sound like it was ultimately helpful, perhaps life changing, for the patient: Now a patron of the British Stammering Association, he says he is indebted to Kerr for teaching him tricks which have helped him forge a career as a sports pundit, appearing on television and radio. "He taught us how to use words, and how to know when someone's using speech to intimidate you. So I have this whole bag of tricks now. It has served me so well. ¶ "But I do Newsnight with Jeremy Paxman and I still have to go to the toilet for a couple of minutes before to compose myself like Bill Kerr told me." –jacobolus(t)16:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jacobolus: I don't think the sourcing is there to describe Kerr's treatment as something that can cure a stutter in a month in Wikipedia's voice. Rather than continue to discuss it, could I invite you to either ping another editor or maybe post a notice to Wikipedia talk:Did you know or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine? If I'm outvoted on the sourcing, I'll accept the consensus. Regarding an article on Kerr, I will likely pass on it, but appreciate the suggestion. If you decide to write him up, something I found limited information on but must have been a huge deal is that he apparently was an early speech therapist for George VI. Rjjiii (talk) 19:07, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, Rjjiii, would you consider making a Wikipedia article about Kerr himself? It seems like a worthy subject and you've already done significant research here. –jacobolus(t)05:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's another source, Petrunik 1974: The "Kerr method" refers to a method of speaking taught by W. C. Kerr in a two-week course, as a "cure" for stuttering. The method essentially involves a standardized temporal ordering (time-on/time-off sequence) of speech. Each word is syllabilized and there are split second pauses between each syllable; for example, I-am-a-u-ni-ver-si-ty stu-dent. The individual is told to stand in a ram-rod straight fashion with his head up high. Unfortunately, such a manner of speech, though technically fluent, does not meet the expectations for normal speech in North America. Its effects have been described as mechanical, stilted, and artificial. I can well imagine that some patients might consider adopting a method like this to be inadequate while others might think it beneficial (compared to an alternative of being unable or barely able to speak in many contexts due to a heavy stutter or associated anxiety) despite some obvious drawbacks. –jacobolus(t)05:50, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that Jacques Lewis is believed to have been the last living French veteran of D-Day?
Source: "Believed to be the last surviving Frenchman to wade ashore with Americans, he was attached to an Army unit that stormed Utah Beach and helped drive Germans out of France."
Cited: - The NYT source does not support the hook as written because it only covers the US landings but there were British and Canadian beaches on D-Day too. A claim of first/last is a Redflag and so needs excellent verification.
Interesting:
Other problems: - "Believed" is a weasel word and/or expression of doubt. If this is a definite fact, as it should be, then we should state it as such without such tentative language.
QPQ: - Not provided yet. done Note current discussions about limiting nominations on credit like this. Overall: I'm not sure of the formal status of translations but this review template asks Is the article free of material copied from other sources? and it isn't. The article seemed to need some copy-editing and so further work of that kind may soften the issue. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:04, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The QPQ has been done and the ALT1 hook seems ok. I raised the issue of translation at WT:DYK but, iirc, most responders didn't seem to be bothered about this.
Looking at the article, I notice that the lead is too short, being just one sentence, and there's just a generic section title of "Biography" which isn't helpful to the reader. So, some copy-editing still seems needed. I'll keep a tab open and make a pass through it myself to see if that helps or turns up any issues. More anon...
Regarding "believed", the is what the New York Times states. It is extremely unlikely there are any other living French vets of the American landings on D-Day. I'll change it to "was" if there are no objections. Thriley (talk) 20:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find a single WP:RS which says he was the last survivor. On the other hand, I've found plenty of sources (both American and French) which equivocate with "believed to be", "one of", or similar.[9][10][11][12][13] so we should do the same. RoySmith(talk)22:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: A.K.A. C for Charlie (as a handful online have nicknamed the 1957 version for almost a decade and a half now). Filler project in light of higher-priority AFC tasks; inspired by this August 2024 filing at the Literature StackExchange, which came up on the parent service's "Hot Network Questons" feed one day during my perusal at GIS.SE (I'm currently engaged in a comeback geofictional project). First of two DYK nominations from yours truly today; stay tuned in a few hours for the other one.
Created by Slgrandson (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.
I really have doubts about this angle to be honest. It's a rather exceptional claim and thus needs exceptional sourcing, and I can't imagine that the hook is actually all that accurate, especially when Harry Potter exists. The term "few" in this case is also vague. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:17, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not surprising or interesting, most abortion laws focus on prosecuting abortion providers rather than recipients. (t · c) buidhe06:27, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that although cyclist Daniela Larreal thought in 2004 that she would only have a few more years in her career, she was preparing for the 2016 Summer Olympics when forced into exile?
@Kingsif: Note that if a subject is featured on ITN under Recent deaths, it remains eligible for DYK. DYK ineligibility only applies to bolded links in blurbs (so for example, Paetongtarn Shinawatra is ineligible for DYK for one year after the blurb was posted), but not to Recent deaths entries. With that in mind, are you sure you want to withdraw the nomination instead of allowing it to proceed? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:19, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TBH, I think your original thought made sense. The big picture of our rules is to show our readers a variety of topics. If we show them something that they've just seen in a different main page section, regardless of how we wiki-lawyer the exceptions, it's still going to be repetitive. RoySmith(talk)22:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Drive-by nom. Appears to meet minimum standards, will go through with a fine-toothed comb when I don't have a 7-day clock ticking. The bit of ALT0 after the dash probably deserves WP:DYKTRIMming but I see no harm in adding it post hoc for the promoter's consideration.
Created by Willthacheerleader18 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 247 past nominations.
How is this surprising or interesting? Many people who go into politics or advocacy don't have polisci degrees. (t · c) buidhe13:48, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Additional source for ALT1: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/us/freedom-summer-mississippi-votes.html “This is about creating a culture of civic engagement, not just during the election season. We want people to understand the political landscape and be involved on and off the clock,” said Ms. Bennett, a Jackson State University graduate who wanted to be a physics teacher before turning to civic activism.
I'm not sure about these hooks either: #1 are very common reasons for political activism in the US and #2 is a commonly cited inspiration for voter registration. (t · c) buidhe02:40, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT3: ...that Arekia Bennett is focused on voting rights for Mississippi citizens including young queer people and children who have gone through the juvenile justice system?
Comment: Expanded from 1126 (18 August) to 6336 (23 August, when almost all the expansion took place). There is an ITN nom (albeit improved a little too late; the section hadn't been updated in days when it was added), but it's recent deaths so should be fine.
5x expanded by Miraclepine (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 52 past nominations.
Alrighty. I've got this nomination watchlisted, so I'll come back in a couple days and see how things are going (personally, I've always believed that interviews published in reliable sources are still fact checked, and even self-published primary sources are accepted for non-controversial things, but...) — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:41, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that diet culture was intertwined with scientific racism in the late 19th century, including the common belief among medical practitioners that black women were unable to control their consumption?
Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-racist-roots-of-fighting-obesity2/, “In the eyes of many medical practitioners in the late 19th century, Black women were destined to die off along with the men of their race because of their presumed inability to control their “animal appetites”—eating, drinking and fornicating. These presumptions were not backed by scientific data but instead embodied the prevailing racial scientific logic at the time. Later, some doctors wanted to push Black men to reform their aesthetic preferences. Valorizing voluptuousness in Black women, these physicians claimed, validated their unhealthy diets, behaviors and figures.”
Reviewed:
Comment: I’m open to alternative hook ideas. Thank you very much!
Moved to mainspace by FortunateSons (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
I made an error: I wrote the article through AfC, but I’m not the person who moved it into mainspace. Can I just fix that manually, or is there a different way to do it? FortunateSons (talk) 17:25, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Everything is fine, there is no error. The article was moved to mainspace with a procedural move by an AfC’er, so noting it was moved to mainspace up above by yourself is acceptable, as it could refer to the general process alone in this instance. If nobody reviews in the next several days, I will do so. Viriditas (talk) 08:24, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: @FortunateSons: Please give WP:DYKTRIM another read to see if you can shorten the hook. I think you can get rid of the word "common", reduce "medical practitioners" to doctors (or the equivalent) and "consumption" to eating, to start. Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m happy to straightforwardly cut down per your suggestion (that diet culture was connected with scientific racism in the 19th century, including the belief among doctors that black women were unable to control their eating?), or would alternatively suggest (that the 19th-century belief among doctors that black women were unable to control their eating is now considered part of diet culture?) I would cite to the teen vogue article (ref 3) either way to avoid any OR issue, but trust your judgement regarding which hook is better? FortunateSons (talk) 18:36, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FortunateSons: I would avoid poor sources like Teen Vogue for a DYK hook about medical history and focus on the best sources available, leaning towards scholarly and academic ones, if available. You also need to fix the authors in the cited source. You have Condé Nast cited as the author, but that's the publisher. The authors of the article are Cameron Katz and Annie Elledge. Elledge is the subject matter expert here, but she's still a PhD student in the Department of Geography at UNC. Her dissertation is on the weight-inclusive wellness industry in North Carolina’s Research Triangle, which is frankly, an interesting subject, but I don't think she's published it yet. She has published similar research before.[16] That article implies she's citing Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia (2019) by sociologist Sabrina Strings, but there was some minor criticism (Laura Jennings in our Wikipedia article). Glancing at Strings 2019, I don't see anything about "diet culture", so one wonders if this is Elledge's thesis that connects the two ideas together. If so, I think we need to be careful here, as I all I see here is her Master's thesis, as it looks like she's still working on her PhD. My personal opinion is that we should stick with the expert sources that we have, not the future experts. If Elledge is simply citing Strings, we need to be careful about closely linked this is to the concept of diet culture because Strings doesn't talk about this, and Elledge is not yet an expert in her field. So, on the one hand, I think your hook is important, on the other, I think we need to focus on solid hooks that are rooted in material directly about the subject based on good sources. You might want to look to see if Sabrina Strings has talked about diet culture, as that would seal the deal. Viriditas (talk) 18:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FortunateSons: For what it's worth, registered dietitian and nutritionist Christy Harrison does discuss this material in the context of diet culture in "Chapter 1: The Roots of Diet Culture" in Anti-Diet (2019) . I'm working from an epub, so I'm not sure of the exact page number, but you can read the material here. As you can see, this is the direct line we are looking for. Harrison cites Strings while talking about diet culture. Some people might ask, is Harrison a reliable source? I think she is on this topic given her study at NYU and her professional work. I also looked into whether she was connected to the social media scandal talked about elsewhere in this discussion, and as it turns out, she's one of the few authors who hasn't taken money from the food industry. However, on her website, she admits to doing work and receiving minor compensation from a tea beverage company many decades ago, but this appears entirely unconnected to her work. The important point here is that Harrison is at least one subject matter expert who connects anti-black racism (like Elledge she cites Strings 2019) with the topic of diet culture. Your hook needs to do that. More importantly, when I read Harrison's take, I see a far more nuanced view. I will quote it here: "The nineteenth century also saw emerging theories about race and evolution that categorized people into a racial hierarchy based on which groups were supposedly more "civilized" or "evolved." The scientists doing the categorizing were predominantly white men of Northern European descent (including, most famously, British naturalist Charles Darwin beginning in the 1830s), and guess which group they claimed was at the top of the hierarchy? As important as evolutionary theory was when it came to explaining how we all came to be on this planet, it was also used in overtly racist ways, to justify the white Anglo-European male domination of other cultures and genders that had been going on for centuries. Evolutionary theory became a "scientific" way of upholding the status quo. White, Northern European women were deemed to be a step down from men on the evolutionary ladder, followed by Southern Europeans (again with the women a step down from the men), then people of color from countries that early biologists and anthropologists considered "semi-civilized" or "barbaric," and finally, at the bottom, Native Americans and Africans, whom they considered "savages." As part of their process of creating this bogus evolutionary hierarchy, nineteenth-century scientists started cataloguing the physical traits and cultural norms they saw in different societies. They decided that fatness was a marker of "savagery" because it appeared more frequently in the people of color they observed, whereas thinness supposedly appeared more frequently in white people, men, and aristocrats. In particular, fatness was said to be linked to blackness—an idea that started to take hold of the popular imagination in both Europe and the U.S. in the nineteenth century. Scientific writings from this period obsessively catalogued and measured the fatness of people from supposedly "primitive" societies, and of women in general. Women of all ethnicities were believed to be at greater "risk" of fatness, which was taken as further evidence of their supposed evolutionary inferiority. Thus, belief in a hierarchy of ethnic groups, with white men at the top, led to a growing demonization of fatness starting in the mid-1800s. These racist beliefs influenced our gender norms as well, including the definitions of what it means to "look male," "look female," and "look androgynous." Because thinness was deemed "more evolved" (given its supposed association with masculinity and whiteness), men with lots of fat on their bodies began to be seen as both less masculine and less morally upstanding. And whereas fatness or curviness was seemingly associated with femininity, the idea that larger bodies were inferior eventually translated to the idea that even women shouldn't be "too" fat or curvy. As sociologist Sabrina Strings explains in her 2019 book, Fearing the Black Body, this prohibition on fatness was especially strong for white, middle-class Protestant women, who were instructed on "temperance" by dietary reformers such as Sylvester Graham, and told that "excessive" eating was both immoral and detrimental to their beauty, as it would lead to having a body more like those of African or Irish women." Viriditas (talk) 19:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: @FortunateSons: Aside from the length of the hook, I am seeing other issues, mostly minor grammar and style, although I do have some question about the overall presentation such as your use of the Scientific American SA article to discuss the antecedents of diet culture, a comparison that isn't explicitly stated. Keep in mind, "diet culture" as a term began in 2010. I note that the SA article cites two articles, one in Psychological Science (2015) and an op-ed in BMC Medicine (2018), while also noting there are others. As your other sources make clear, we are talking about two main issues in regards to "diet culture": the promotion of restrictive diets and the stigmatization of the obese. The SA article addresses the latter, but doesn't directly connect it to our topic. However, I think it is safe to say that others might, and I'm currently trying to help find them. We need to be really careful with original research and to only go as far as the sources do. Viriditas (talk) 20:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Part of the problem is that you have competing narratives that are rooted in different disciplines. For example, you have the narrative of the health sciences, which has elements of the history of medicine. This is overlayed with the narratives of the fat acceptance movement, which has its own perspectives and opinions, and the narrative of feminists and black history. As long as this is all based on the 2010 understanding of "diet culture", everything is fine, but this isn't immediately clear. I notice the scholarly literature isn't being used as much as it could be here. One way to address this problem directly is to fold all the subtopics into coherent narratives related to the main characteristics of diet culture. As I wrote above, one of your sources discusses the two major ones, the promotion of restrictive diets and the stigmatization of the obese. I think it's easier to follow all the subtopics when they are written about in that context, and if possible, to expand the other characteristics. This also has great benefits for the reader as it formalizes and organizes the topic. In such an outline, racism would be discussed in a section about stigmatization, etc. Viriditas (talk) 21:02, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Overall: Current hook and source are not explicitly about "diet culture". There are, however, related aspects about diet culture and racism in other sources that may be used instead. Additional problems discussed above. Jovanovski & Jaeger 2022 discuss the complexity of the topic and the interweaving narratives in their paper, a perspective that isn't reflected in the article (for example, neither the lead nor the body make it clear that this topic is part of the anti-diet movement composed of a coalition of feminists, fat activists and health professionals, etc.) Additional work is needed to frame this subject accurately within the strict narrative of sources about "diet culture". Another issue is the current controversy around the subject. As you may know, The Washington Post attacked many of the people associated with the movement as a front for "Big Food", although there are questions as to whether this criticism is legitimate.[17][18][19] NPR covered this in April.[20] One of the takeaways here is that the term "diet culture" is part of the anti-diet movement and this isn't clear in the article. There is also a strong relationship with fatphobia, and it may be instructive to review the article on the social stigma of obesity. Given that race and fat acceptance is already covered in that article, I'm wondering if we really need two articles on this subject. I think we could conceivably keep this treatment separate using several different approaches. For example, registered dietitian and nutritionist Christy Harrison (who studied public-health nutrition at NYU) gives the subject an extensive treatment in her book Anti-Diet (2019). There, she defines the subject as "a system of beliefs that equates thinness, muscularity, and particular body shapes with health and moral virtue; promotes weight loss and body reshaping as a means of attaining higher status; demonizes certain foods and food groups while elevating others; and oppresses people who don't match its supposed picture of 'health.'" I think if we stick closely to the sources about diet culture we should be able to salvage this article. Viriditas (talk) 21:02, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1: ... that "Dilaw" reached the top spot on Billboard Philippines Hot 100 and Top Philippines Songs chart and entered the Spotify Global Chart at 200?
Not a review, but the hooks are a bit suspicious. The hooks have a summary of the song, which isn't regularly added to hooks, maybe trim like this? ALT0:... that "Dilaw" was the dominating song in the Philippines and international too? and ALT1: ... that "Dilaw" was entered on Billboard Philippines securing the number one spot, and the Spotify Global Chart entered at number 200? and I also saw two "hooks" in alt1, which can be added here, ALT2: ... that the creator of the song Dilaw is a male OPM artist with the most listeners on Spotify? Thanks, 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗11:53, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting: - Oof, most of the hooks are normal for singers like him, there are multiple examples of dominant songs in the Philippines which gained international recognition.
Most storms are just like all other storms, so (while I get that they're a popular topic with a devoted following) there's usually not much to say that will be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest. This one reached category 5 and made landfall so I would assume something unsual happened. If not, then maybe it's just not a good fit for DYK. RoySmith(talk)22:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: Gamauf (2023),"Peculium: Paradoxes of Slaves With Property". In Schermaier, Martin (ed.). The Position of Roman Slaves: Social Realities and Legal Differences. Berlin and Boston: De Gruyter. pp. 87–124. doi:10.1515/9783110987195.
Reviewed:
Created by Ttocserp (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Adequate sourcing: - Per DYK rules, you need at minimum one citation at the end of each paragraph that covers all content preceding it. You also need a source for all statements introduced in captions (not cited elsewhere in the article) that go beyond identification of the image's subject. I've added some cn tags where a citation is missing, or axed transition sentences that Wikipedia tends not to use, but I may have missed some.
Neutral: - I'd like to see the talk page complaint resolved
Sorry, my laptop was off being repaired. I would gladly adress the concerns, but someone has put on a template saying it reads like a personal essay. (Why is not explained; I got everything from the sources.). What should I do?Ttocserp 21:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If Callixtus I was a slave owned by a slave owned by a slave, he wouldn't be an example of a slave who owned a slave, would he? Or at least not necessarily. Bremps...06:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Callixtus is an instance of a sub-sub-slave not a slaveowner himself. But it is true the caption needs to be amended.Ttocserp 09:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ttocserp: Please address the above. For what it's worth, I agree that this reads like a personal essay and I would suggest taking it to WP:GOCE if you can't see the problem.--Launchballer09:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Overall: The above issues need to be addressed. Also, the article calls the track "erratic," which makes more sense than "erroneous," which is the word the hook uses. Ergo Sum16:01, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TheNuggeteer: Thanks for adding the inline citation. However, since that is a 96 page PDF, there should be citations to specific pages at each inline use, for example, using ((Sfn)). I did a quick control-F search in that PDF and "erratic" does not come up, so citation to a specific page is necessary. Ergo Sum01:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Page citation is good. However, unless I am still missing it on page 44, I do not see the words "random" or "erratic" as descriptions of the typhoon's movement. I see "most unusual," which is not the same thing as either of those words. Ergo Sum13:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The parts of the article that support the hook still say "erratic" and "random." Once those are corrected, the hook will be ready to go. Ergo Sum13:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that the Republican-led Ohio Ballot Board was sued because its official summary for Ohio Issue 1, designed to improve redistricting, stated instead that the initiative would requiregerrymandering?
Source: the Board's summary "describes the amendment, which is specifically intended to prevent partisan gerrymandering, as specifically requiring it."
Comment: I hope the hooks and article are carefully NPOV. Reliable sources usually mention that the legislature and ballot board are Republican-led, since gerrymandering is about partisanship. Fwiw, Issue 1 proponents are described in the press as bipartisan.
Created by ProfGray (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
@CFA and 64.189.246.115: Great hooks. I think I prefer ALT0 the most followed by ALT1. The nomination was made in time and the hooks all seem to be verified from the sources. The article meets the size requirements and uses in-line citations where necessary. There is a potential copyvio from a Billboard source so you should paraphrase its usage a bit.--NØ11:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Earwig only scores 40% because of WP:LIMITED terms like "Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations" and "Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis" and quotes. There's not really anything to change. CFA💬14:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: Clark, Alfred E. (April 24, 1982). "Rev. Michael Walsh, Headed Fordham During Fiscal Crisis". The New York Times. p. 11. Archived from the original on November 19, 2022. Retrieved August 28, 2023.: "During his years at Boston College, he saw its enrollment greatly expand, supervised the construction of 15 new buildings..."
Source: Eddie Canales, who campaigned to prevent migrant deaths, dies at 76, Washington Post: "For years, when unidentified bodies were recovered in the county, they were buried, at times in unmarked graves. Mr. Canales and other activists helped push for the enforcement of a Texas law mandating that unidentified remains undergo DNA testing, and championed the exhumation of unidentified bodies from the county cemetery... The effort led to a horrifying revelation when researchers exhuming a mass burial site at the cemetery found remains “in trash bags, shopping bags, body bags, or no containers at all,”"
ALT1: ... that Eddie Canales set up nearly 200 water stations along an area of the US-Mexico border to save the lives of undocumented immigrants? Source: Eddie Canales, who set up nearly 200 water stations along U.S.-Mexico border, dead at 76, CBC: "He spent much of the last decade of his life travelling along the U.S. southern border to place and refill large barrels of water for those making the dangerous — and often deadly — journey across the arid desert to the U.S... The South Texas Human Rights Center estimates he placed nearly 200 of these water stations across seven counties..."
Reviewed:
Created by Mrfoogles (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
Note from author: Would appreciate some guidance on how many wikilinks should be added, it seems like DYKs have more of those but I'm not sure exactly how much more. Mrfoogles (talk) 22:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Length, date, qpq ok. Close paraphrase not found in spot check. But the hook fact need to be directly referenced in the article. --Soman (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is, in this statement cited to the Artforum article: "Since then [2004], screenings have been planned at Rayi Spartias on a quadrennial basis, with the 2020 screening delayed to 2022 because of the COVID-19 pandemic." hinnk (talk) 23:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Understood, but this reference needs to be placed directly after one or more sentences in the article mentioning the quadriannual premiere concept. --Soman (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, got it, you were talking about the previous section. I've copied the citation for those three sentences so it also appears right after the premiere date. (Since the lead is summarizing the body, I left it alone consistent with WP:DYKHFC/MOS:LEADCITE). hinnk (talk) 10:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This guy was such a bizarre character that several more hooks could be created if necessary. I just proposed some of the ones I think are the most strange and interesting.
Improved to Good Article status by PizzaKing13 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.
@PizzaKing13: As you already have more than five nominations, you are required to provide a QPQ. As per a recent rule change, a QPQ should have been provided at the time of the nomination. One must be provided soon, or else the nomination is liable to be closed without warning. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:34, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Overall: Article is new and long enough. No problems with Earwig. A few small issues, however. Some of the material in the article lack citations. For example, the lead contains two statements that are missing citations to confirm (they're not confirmed anywhere in the article body). The entire "Plot" section is unsourced. The proposed hook itself is interesting, but needs to be rewritten. It states that Héctor Germán Oesterheld himself was a character in his own comic, who was retained after he died. In fact, the cited source states that the character of Germán was "Oesterheld's character" ("el personaje de Oesterheld"), but does not explicitly state that it is him. (Native Spanish speaker here, by the way.) The source makes clear that the character is certainly based on him; the hook needs to be reworded accordingly. Another detail that needs to be ironed out is that the hook unequivocally states that Oesterheld is dead. However, all sources I've read state that he is presumed dead. Even if his death is certain, I'm not sure that it could've been declared official at the time this third part of the comic was published in 1981, while the Dirty War was still ongoing. Otherwise, this is a very interesting article about a subject I previously had zero knowledge of! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:40, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have rewritten the lead. Plot sections of articles about works of fiction do not require citations; it is accepted that the book itself is the source. That Oesterheld included himself as a character within the first two stories he wrote does not need to be referenced either, for similar reasons (he's not even the first author who uses that trick, see here). The hook, however, focuses on the real-life stuff about the character. As for his death, it is correct that his death had never been officially confirmed by the military, but his kidnapping was denounced by the family and other organizations shortly after April 1977, and informed by Cadena Informativa on September 1977. It's all in reference 1. A bit off-topic for this article (better suited for HGO's biography, or the second part), but clearly not a situation that Ediciones Record didn't know. They may be in the dark about the details, but not about their star writer being missing and reported kidnapped by the military. Cambalachero (talk) 01:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for everybody's patience. The lead has been improved. No problems with the plot! The ALT still needs to be tweaked. Again, he was, in all likelihood, dead by the time the comic was published. However, he seems never to have been officially declared dead, only presumed dead. It seems like splitting hairs, but it's the kind of thing other editors may potentially bring up once the hook goes live. So best to address it now by modifying the ALT with the qualifier "probably". —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: Buerge (2017)[22] p.33: "....when the Suquamish chief Kitsap organized a confederacy to meet a threat from the north."
Ibid. p. 41-42: "The most feared were the Cowichan ... Slave raids had led the Cowichan far from their homes in search of human merchandise ... by spreading havoc on the sound, they likely intended to eliminate rivals and make the HBC come to them"
Ibid. p.42: "The confederation Kitsap engineered stretched from central Puget Sound to the Columbia River, and Old Man House was its nexus."
Ibid. p. 43: "The attack likely took place around 1825 ... Kitsap and other Suquamish men took the lead"
Reviewed:
Created by PersusjCP (talk) and SeaTraff (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
@Daniel Case: is there a way to make the hook less hypothetical? The article says they might have been heavy enough to win without the weight but also that "it remains unclear if the men caught the fish the day of the tournament or on a prior day." This is such a goofy crime, that I feel there are probably quite a few ways to craft a compelling hook around it. The article otherwise checks out. It's cited, quotes are attributed, no close paraphrasing, meets NPOV, long enough, and expanded 5x. If you try out other hooks, feel free to ping me, Rjjiii (talk) 04:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that two anglers went to jail for hiding weights inside of fish that might have been heavy enough to win the tournament without added weight?
Also, I don't know how to get to NPOV within the space of a hook fact, but the bit where the dude loses a $120,000 prize boat after failing a polygraph test (which doesn't even work) about having sex with other women and farm animals is wild. Rjjiii (talk) 06:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that would work. Aside from the likely unlikelihood, as you note, that a hook based around that could fit into 200 characters, this claim is somewhat dubious enough to me as to not put it in a hook, since the only source for it in the article is a (admittedly reliably-sourced) interview with one of the anglers, not the one supposedly subjected to this test even, who was at the time merely suspected of cheating, and who has since admitted to doing so. Even the other guy ... if he has gone on the record corroborating it, I didn't find it. To say nothing of the tournament director. Daniel Case (talk) 20:30, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But then what's the point of running it on the anniversary? And didn't we have a rule saying hooks had to be clearer than that? Or that is another one we trashed so we could keep things running smoothly?
@Daniel Case, we do often run things on an anniversary without calling it out unless it's somehow important to the reader understanding the hook. We'll run a hook about a composer and not mention that it's the 200th anniversary of his birth, for instance. Often it means more to the nominator and a very small group of readers who are already aware of the anniversary.
That too many readers are not smart enough to realize that's a two-year anniversary date, and that including the date would be absolutely superfluous on any other date. Daniel Case (talk) 20:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rule is a bit nitpicky, IMO. It might have happened two years ago 'today' all day in the US, but much of the time it's appearing, the local date is not Sept 30. Meh. People watching the BBC in the am in the US and hearing the anchor mention an incident had happened 'early this afternoon' are able to understand. But that's been the interpretation of the rule. Valereee (talk) 13:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, another one that I hope will be appreciated as BLP-compliant:
I think if "quirky" is what we want, and based on your sniffiness about mentioning "today" in the hook at all above, let's just stick with Roy's idea of the catchphrase alone. That will probably get the most hits (maybe even more than "Wake Me Up When September Ends", slated for the same day. Daniel Case (talk) 18:11, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a review (and as much as I'm thankful for you reviewing three of my GAs, I still review oldest first!), but it took me a while to parse ALT0, as I wrongly assumed it was missing the word "who". I would suggest either "once described as" instead of "claimed to be" or taking out "a man claimed to be". (Also, you mentioned that The Cock Destroyers was a red link at Talk:Megan Barton-Hanson/GA1, and you may be interested to know it now has an article.)--Launchballer17:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Per DYK guidelines, there is a two day eligibility window following a week after creation so it should fall within this window. Thank you for the reviewer for your time in advance! ALT1 is a bit lengthy, so I am open to any ways for it to be shortened while keeping the hook-iness.
Created by Ornithoptera (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 40 past nominations.
"But unfortunately for him, these technological shenanigans work both ways – through he can read every button press on controller 1, controller 2 is a mystery to him. By plugging your controller into the second port, your movements are concealed, leaving Psycho Mantis as little more than a bug-eyed piñata."
"Gamers will initially find that Mantis can block all of Snake's attacks with ease. The only solution is to physically switch the controller from one port to another."
Banks, Jamie; Meija, Robert; Adams, Aubrie (June 23, 2017). 100 Greatest Video Game Characters. Rowman and Littlefield Publishers. pp. 155–156. ISBN 978-1442278127.
"After this, Psycho Mantis probes deeper by scanning the player’s physical memory card and commenting on select Konami titles; for example, “You like Castlevania, don’t you?”"
"He turns every scrap of information into a dirty little secret he dangles over your head, even going so far to bring up other games you’ve played: Castlevania, Suikoden, Vandal Hearts. A remake of the game is on the GameCube, and it’s particularly disconcerting to hear Mantis hiss, as if through clenched teeth, “So … you’ve been playing Super Mario Sunshine, haven’t you?”"
Reviewed:
Comment: Been a while since I've done a nomination, so I hope everything is alright with this nomination.
Improved to Good Article status by Pokelego999 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
This is not intended to be a full review and I have no plans of giving this a full review, but a quick look at the article suggests that this is in need of a copyedit. In addition, the current hook probably does not meet WP:DYKINT as not being likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing. A new hook will be needed here, in any case. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Catfurball, please be aware that the Guild of Copy Editors is taking over three months to complete most requests, and DYK has a two-month limit for a nomination to be approved. Regrettably, unless the article is adequately copyedited in the next month or so (prior to the Guild getting to it), the nomination will not pass. You will also want to address the hook issue now rather than delaying. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pings don't work if you add them after you sign. I can tell you that ALT0/1 is only interesting if you know what Timmy's Playroom/The Leapfrog Group are and being from a particular place isn't unusual or intriguing. (I should say that I haven't yet seen the article.)--Launchballer19:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Launchballer: AdventHealth Daytona Beach is the only hospital in Florida to win an A grade twenty-five consecutive times in row. And it is one of fifteen hospitals in the United States that have done this. Very rare for hospitals to win this many times in a row and most likely they will win another later this year. Catfurball (talk) 19:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have to either a) ping and sign in the same edit or b) ping in the edit summary, which is what I did. Again, for that hook to be considered unusual, you need to know what The Leapfrog Group is. Following that link shows me that there are probably about twelve different patient safety organisations in the US.--Launchballer20:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: "The Thirteen-ness of the Thirteenth Quartet" by Iain Strachan in the DSCH Journal (July 2024): "Shostakovich had apparently intended to make a mathematical version of his DSCH signature in the key sequence of his quartets. Given that the musically logical sequence of keys indicated that if the composer had lived to complete a sixteenth quartet, it would have been in B major, this meant that the major key quartets of DSCH would all have been on the quartets whose numbers were perfect squares, namely 4, 9, 1, and 16".
ALT1: ... that there is no String Quartet No. 16 by Dmitri Shostakovich? Source: "Shostakovich and the 'Sixteenth Quartet'" by Krzysztof Meyer and Henny van der Groep in the DSCH Journal (July 2014)
ALT2: ... that Dmitri Shostakovich's String Quartet No. 16 has three movements, including a lyrical middle, ends with a double fugue, and does not exist? Source: Ibid; "Fifty Years Ago: April–September 1974" by Krzysztof Meyer (translated by Bryan Rowell) in DSCH Journal (July 2024)
Comment: QPQ coming soon. For what it's worth, my preference for these ALTs are in reverse order, with ALT2 being my most preferred. Also, is it possible to run this DYK on September 25, for the 118th anniversary of Shostakovich's birth?
Created by CurryTime7-24 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 48 past nominations.
The article was new enough and long enough at the time of the nomination. It is properly sourced; as all the sources are offline I am assuming good faith on verification here. ALT0 has a sourcing issue: the reference backing it up comes at the end of the relevant paragraph; according to WP:DYKG, the supporting footnote should be at the latest at the end of the sentence supporting the hook fact, which in this case is the DSCH signature aspect. ALT2 is a rather complicated hook so I'm rather disinclined to approve it. My preferred hook is actually ALT1; however, the article does not actually seem to back it up. The article is unclear if the String Quartet was even started, or if it was started but simply unfinished: if it was the former, then ALT1 is accurate. To be sure, I'm pinging Kingsif and RoySmith regarding ALT1 as both are knowledgeable about quirky hooks and their suitability. If ALT1 is unsuitable, only ALT0 will be approved.
There is another major concern: the lack of a QPQ. Per a recent discussion, the guidelines have changed so a QPQ should now be provided at the time of the nomination, rather than up to a week afterwards. As such, please provide a QPQ as soon as possible, as the nomination may be failed without further warning if one is not given soon. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:02, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While I have some questions about the focus of the article and whether it should really be about Meyer's work and how it was inspired by an uncomposed Shostakovich, if the reviewer is happy with it as is, I have no problems with alt1. I would object to alt0 on being too difficult. Kingsif (talk) 11:41, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5: Meyer seems to imply in the transcript of his 1974 visit to Shostakovich and in his 2014 interview that the quartet was never even sketched. However, in the latter he also states ambiguously (emphasis mine): "[A]las, [Shostakovich] was not able to complete the project regarding the Sixteenth [Quartet]". Neither of the articles cited specifically details how much progress, if any, Shostakovich had made on this work at this point or ever. My copy of Meyer's monograph on the composer (in the Spanish translation) is also of no help; his mention of the work therein is even more fleeting. I've looked through the various books by Sofia Khentova, Shostakovich's official biographer, including her massive two-volume biography, which is far more exhausting in detail than any current English language books on the composer. It mentions various obscure odds-and-ends and aborted projects—but no String Quartet No. 16. Derek C. Hulme's Dmitri Shostakovich: The First Hundred Years and Beyond has an entire appendix devoted to such works. Again, no mention of this quartet. I've also not been able to find mention of it in the various Russian language sources in my personal library or in Levon Akopyan's editorial notes in the ongoing New Collected Works Edition of the quartets. For what it's worth, it's probably more likely that Shostakovich never went beyond working through the quartet in his mind. By 1974, his neuro-muscular disorder had made writing extremely difficult and exhausting for him. Consider that he had not even begun to work on the Fifteenth Quartet on April 11, 1974. (Meyer's visit and questioning may have been the catalyst to finally get work on that going: his first extant sketches are dated April 13.) The penmanship in the autograph copy of his last work, the Viola Sonata from July 1975, clearly evinces that it was a struggle just to get the notes to paper. (By this point, he could only write by having his left hand support his right.) Meyer is by far the most informative source on this cryptic work... but, unfortunately, he leaves a number of questions dangling. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5, Launchballer, Kingsif, and RoySmith: Pinging as a courtesy. Please let me know if any work remains to be done on this nom. I'll be happy to amend the ALTs further if needed. Would like this to get approved and be included on the DYK for September 25, the 118th anniversary of Shostakovich's birth. Thank you all. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 18:00, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As much as I really like the "doesn't exist" angle, it seems that the sourcing and circumstances just aren't strong enough to justify it, so regrettably it may have to be dropped. Maybe Theleekycauldron has some more ideas on how to move forward. ALT0 is probably acceptable, but honestly not as good and I doubt it would get as much interest from readers. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could ALT1 possibly work? The wording is also slightly more ambiguous than the other ALTs, which unequivocally state that the work does not exist at all. There really is no "String Quartet No. 16" insofar as a published piece of music is concerned, but the wording of ALT1 doesn't rule out the fact that unfinished sketches, etc. may exist. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 is actually the sticking point here. The accuracy of the hook depends on how one interprets "there is no String Quartet No. 16." If one means "it was never made", yes it's accurate. If one means "it never existed", then exactly what "exist" means is the issue. The finished product doesn't exist, but as you said there's ambiguity if sketches or work was made. If they did, it technically did exist, if in an unfinished/unreleased state. Even if not, one could argue that it did exist as a concept if not as a composition that was at least attempted, so the hook is too vague and ambiguous. Even if it were to be approved, I can see it going to WP:ERRORS and/or WT:DYK before being pulled. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:54, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5: Looking over ALT1 again, I'm thinking that perhaps this is simply a semantic debate. Because there really is no "String Quartet No. 16" insofar as there is no published score or any kind of tangible media directly related to it that is available. Even Meyer's derivative work is only based on his own conjectural idea of the work. That he, as a close friend and one of the great scholars of Shostakovich, did not utilize any of the composer's material is telling. It should be noted, too, that Henny van der Groep's title for his DSCH Journal interview places the projected work title within sneer quotes. Of course, I also have new ALTs for your consideration:
ALT3: ... that you cannot listen to Dmitri Shostakovich's String Quartet No. 16? (Source: "Shostakovich and the 'Sixteenth Quartet'" by Krzysztof Meyer and Henny van der Groep in the DSCH Journal (July 2014))
Yes the objection to ALT1 may seem like semantics, but semantics are actually taken seriously at DYK and can result in hooks getting pulled. Many of the issues raised at WT:DYK or WP:ERRORS are ultimately semantics, but given how much the project wants hooks to be accurate, semantics are important. Among the new suggestions provided, ALT3 is probably the best option and also accurate, but it needs to be reflected in the article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it possible to just use ALT0? While it is the blandest and my least favorite off all options, it appears to be the only one that isn't ensnared in potential semantical problems. As for ALT3, I'm not sure how to proceed without having to prove a negative. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 22:20, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it can't be returned, I have found 10+ sources, but I only used two just to make this article fast, maybe I can expand it? 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗05:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sebastian Zouberbuhler (double nom)Abortion in Africa (triple nom, see below)
Comment: Many thanks to Aibo22 for creating an article about a topic I had previously written an article about, but which was deleted at AfD 9+ years ago. Oasis Live '25 Tour is a 5x expansion of an article created less than a week ago.
A reviewer should check before ticking it off, but I've added a note anyway. As for adding an additional QPQ, there's probably just enough room for "that after Liam and Noel Gallagher's band Oasis announced for 2025 "the most controversial band reunion since the Sex Pistols' 1996 Filthy Lucre Tour", Noel's daughter Anaïs Gallagher criticised some fans for ageism and sexism?", so you might get lucky. I should probably write the third article first though.--Launchballer08:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that Jesse "JerAx" Vainikka was the first Dota 2 player to reach four consecutive Valve Major finals, achieving this milestone with Team Liquid and OG? Source: [26][27]
ALT1: ... that Jesse Vainikka, also known as JerAx, became the highest-earning individual player in esports in 2018 after winning two consecutive The International titles with OG in Dota 2? Source: [28]
ALT2: ... that Jesse "JerAx" Vainikka auctioned his Team Liquid gaming chair for €5,300 to benefit the charity, Save the Children, surpassing auction prices of signed jerseys from Lionel Messi and Wayne Rooney? Source: [4]
Reviewed:
Created by Jeraxmoira (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Responding to this: Per MOS:SURNAME: "After the initial mention, a person should generally be referred to by surname only [...] When a majority of reliable secondary sources refer to persons by a pseudonym, they should be subsequently referred to by their pseudonymous surnames, unless they do not include a recognizable surname in the pseudonym (e.g. Sting, Snoop Dogg, the Edge), in which case the whole pseudonym is used. For people well known by one-word names, nicknames, or pseudonyms, but who often also use their legal names professionally – e.g., André Benjamin ("André 3000"), Jennifer Lopez ("J.Lo"); doctor/broadcaster Drew Pinsky ("Dr. Drew") – use the legal surname." I checked the article's refs and they all seem to use the pseudonym, at least in their titles. But if we don't want to use the pseudonym, then the surname Vainikka should be used instead of the given name Jesse. (I left this comment here, because it affects this nomination's caption.) 2001:14BA:9C40:0:2898:CC7C:F3E7:9062 (talk) 19:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it affects the nomination's caption/hook, as I have used both his real name and his in-game name. Let the reviewer decide if the article/hook needs further clarity regarding the surname. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 07:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Partial review here: ALT2 seems the most interesting to me, seconded by ALT1; ALT0 is not as interesting without much esports context. Article is new enough, long enough, and written by the nominator. (Don't plan to review rest, just dropping in) Mrfoogles (talk) 06:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2 is above the 200 character limit and needs to be trimmed. Maybe something like:
ALT2a ... that a gaming chair used by Jesse "JerAx" Vainikka sold at an auction for €5,300, surpassing prices of signed jerseys from Lionel Messi and Wayne Rooney?
What about ALT2b: "... that a gaming chair used by Jesse "JerAx" Vainikka sold at a charitable auction for €5,300, surpassing prices of signed jerseys from Lionel Messi and Wayne Rooney?" Also fits within the character limit and mentions that its a charitable auction, which I think is also one of the interesting parts. Changes it from "someone really wanted this gaming chair" to "gaming chairs can be competitive in charitable auctions", kind of. Mrfoogles (talk) 18:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for doing that, Jeraxmoira! Unfortunately, you added a reference to the Tech Times, designated as unreliable at this RSN discussion, which prevents me from approving again for the same reasons. However, since this issue seems a lot more manageable than the last one, I'll review the other criteria in anticipation of you addressing it. As an aside, I would recommend installing one or more citation highlighting scripts if you haven't already; they will help you catch reliability issues before they rear their heads.
Overall: I've struck ALT0 as it is phrased awkwardly and contains too many technical or specialist terms to be interesting or accessible enough to a broad audience. ALT1 is frankly on thin ice as well, as mashing the thematically unrelated facts about the subject's earnings and competition wins is making the sentence confusing. We can workshop it further, or just strike it if you prefer ALT2a and ALT2b better. The picture will probably not be running with the hook, as it's already a bit unclear at Main Page sizes and nearly impossible to make out JerAx in particular. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I already use a citation highlighting script and it did/does not flag any sources in the article as unreliable, apart from the YouTube video. Based on your suggestion, I have removed Techtimes and AFK Gaming and FWIW, the facts in ALT1 are not unrelated, as most of the earnings came from Dota 2 Championships. Alt 2b seems fine to me, so I have struck the remaining. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 07:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jeraxmoira: I've gone ahead and removed the image as well. However, some of the sources you've introduced to replace the old ones also seem to have issues. What makes Esports.gg, Win.gg, and TalkEsport reliable? Esports.gg's about page makes no mention of editorial oversight — the typical mark of reliability for web content from Wikipedia's perspective — nor Win.gg's or TalkEsport's. This leads me to believe these are self-published sources, which are unsuitable for use in articles. Another way to demostrate the reliability of these sources was if they were used or approved by other reliable sources, which I haven't found to be the case with some quick searching. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 16:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are applying the standards of mainstream journalism to the esports field, which I feel is unfair. AFAIK, these events are not covered by traditional mainstream media, so it's unreasonable to expect a byline or editorial oversight on all the sources used. The claims made here are not exceptional ones that would require following WP:ECREE. I have added multiple sources to back almost all the claims made in the article, including the hook and have removed most of the sources you mentioned. If you're still skeptical, I would request that you leave it to an editor/reviewer who is familiar with evaluating E-sports sources/sources that aren't from mainstream news media. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 19:42, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no objections to a second opinion from another reviewer, but Wikipedia guidelines do not apply differently based on the topic area. I'm not saying that any of the information here is exceptional and requires featured article–quality sources; when it comes to web content of any kind, the absolute bare minimum for source reliability is an editorial review or attribution to a subject-matter expert such as a qualified academic (which likely wouldn't apply here). It's also important to remember that the biographies of living persons policy applies to the subject of this article, and self-published sources should never be used unless they were by the subject themselves. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 20:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that the Chinese sculptor Pan He used his Reunion to commemorate both the handover of Macau and his return to his beloved cousin?
Source: Jiang, Xinchen (November 26, 2020). "潘鹤:渔女之父的珠海情缘" [Pan He: The Father of the Fisherwoman and His Love for Zhuhai]. Southcn.com (in Chinese). China South Publishing & MediaGroup. Archived from the original on September 1, 2024. Retrieved September 1, 2024.
ALT1: ... that the Chinese sculptor Pan He created the Zhuhai Fisher Girl(pictured), an icon of Zhuhai? Source: Jiang, Xinchen (November 26, 2020). "潘鹤:渔女之父的珠海情缘" [Pan He: The Father of the Fisherwoman and His Love for Zhuhai]. Southcn.com (in Chinese). China South Publishing & MediaGroup. Archived from the original on September 1, 2024. Retrieved September 1, 2024.
Not a full review, but I'd recommend brainstorming new hooks. The second hook seems to namedrop names likely to be unfamilar to the reader, and the first hook runs afoul of WP:DYKFICTION. Bremps...01:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Moved to mainspace by Launchballer (talk), Ss112 (talk), MC-123 (talk), and Heartleap (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 250 past nominations.
Interesting: - Not a super surprising thing for a songwriter to say
QPQ: - Not done Overall: Recognize that QPQs are coming up, so this is a bit early; only issue is I feel like the hook could be a bit more interesting. Mrfoogles (talk) 17:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Proposing ALT1: "... that songwriter Gigi Perez first went viral for a song on TikTok, where she had begun to upload videos to cope with her grief?". Maybe Gigi Perez could use ALT1, and Sailor Song could use ALT0, if it is possible to add two DYKs with one nomination? Also, since I'm new, if anyone wanted to double-check my copyvio checking that would be appreciated (not that I think there is any). Mrfoogles (talk) 17:29, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. You can definitely split up a nomination post hoc - see Talk:Lucy Tun for one such example - however hook interestingness does not depend on topic, so if it isn't good enough for Gigi, it won't be good enough for Sailor Song. I've taken the liberty of renumbering your ALT0a to ALT1 as it introduces new information, and would suggest ALT1a: that the "Sailor Song" songstress Gigi Perez first began uploading content to TikTok to cope with grief? - but you will still need a new reviewer for that. I do however wonder if it's worth leaving 'not a democracy' out of ALT0 and running the rest, i.e. ALT0a: ... that the lyrics of Gigi Perez's "Sailor Song" received criticism from far-right conservative Christian communities?--Launchballer22:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Launchballer: Okay, you could have just asked: we're all volunteers here. I think that when I first reviewed you were only partway through the reviews, so I figured that it probably wasn't time yet. QPQs do look done now; going to leave this to another reviewer to pick the hook. Personally I think ALT0a sounds fine, but I like ALT1 a lot (the exact phrasing might not be perfectly, but I think it's interesting): maybe if it was split, ALT0a could be used without Gigi Perez bolded, and then ALT1 for the second DYK? Otherwise, if they are not split, ALT0a seems good. Mrfoogles (talk) 18:10, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that several characters from a webcomic Weatherday wrote appear in their album Come In?
Source: [29] "The album as a whole is set up like my webcomic which I sort of based things from the album on along with my own life. The character Agatha is from that comic and same with Oswald and Ines."
ALT1: ... that after the original run sold out, vinyl copies of Come In were put up for sale on Discogs for as much as $100? Source: [30] "Last year, U.S. indie label Topshelf, a crucial fourth-wave emo outlet, dropped a double-LP reissue of Come In, and the whole run of 2,000 sold out—if you want a pristine copy, be prepared to pony up $100 on Discogs."
ALT2: ... that Come In was recorded on a hands-free microphone attached to a pair of headphones? Source: [31] "I used the headphone mic because I didn’t have a better one and thought I could do without one."Album liner notes (viewable on Bandcamp) "Honorable mention to the hands-free mic attached to my headphones which I recorded this album on"
ALT3: ... that Come In was inspired by a webcomic that Weatherday wrote? Source: [32] "Mio is a character from a webcomic I made back in 2016-2017 [...] I used Mio on the album cover cause I drew inspiration from the webcomic when I was making the album"[33] "The album as a whole is set up like my webcomic which I sort of based things from the album on along with my own life."
Reviewed:
Comment: I created the page in the draftspace and OhHaiMark moved it into the mainspace. This is my first DYK nomination and first time building up an article, please let me know if I did anything wrong!
Moved to mainspace by OhHaiMark (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
... that Michael Sugrue became an "internet phenomenon" during the COVID-19 pandemic for his lectures on YouTube covering "the last 3,000 years of Western intellectual history” recorded in 1992?
Source: "Michael Sugrue, 66, Dies; His Talks on Philosophy Were a YouTube Hit
After an academic career spent in near obscurity, he became an internet phenomenon during the pandemic by uploading talks he had given three decades earlier.
The college lecturer, in a uniform of rumpled khakis and corduroy blazer, paces on a small stage, head down. “The lectures you’re about to see,” he says in introducing a series of talks, videotaped in somewhat hokey lo-fi style in 1992, “cover the last 3,000 years of Western intellectual history.""
Campaign poster for the 1917 Łódź City Council election
... that whilst socialists got 31% of the votes in the 1917 Łódź City Council election(campaign poster pictured), they only won five seats due to a curiae system implemented by the German authorities?
Source: Telma Tadeusz. Pierwsze wybory do Rady Miejskiej m. Łodzi, in Rocznik Łódzki, Vol. 11 (14). Państwowe Wydawnictwu Naukowe, 1966. pp. 134, 138-146, Antoni Goerne. Wybory do Rady Miejskiej w Lodzi w styczniu 1917, in Informator m Lodzi z kalendarzem na rok 1919. pp. 76-83
I'm not taking on the review, but just leaving a comment, as I'm puzzled. Without context, this may not be hook-notable I believe. The question left unaddressed is five seats out of how many. If it is five seats out of 15, this would seen rather non-notable. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:F804:C954:1D4C:5D11 (talk) 03:51, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I went back and forth on the wording of the sentence, but with the 200 characters cap it is difficult to get all nuances and factoids included. For me "only five" implies that it is less than proportional, but a rewording could be to replace "five seats" with "8%". --Soman (talk) 10:37, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Freely licensed: - The licensing is incorrect, at issue is not the photograph copyright but the poster itself (((PD-1923)) in the United States, not sure about Poland)—then you can use ((PD-scan))
Overall: The article looks mostly fine, but I'm not sure about the hook. Non-proportional electoral systems are typical outside of continental Europe, where proportional representation based systems are more common. First past the post can cause equal amount of distortion. (t · c) buidhe04:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the hook states that the reasons for the disproportionality is the curiae system, which is arguably something different from FPTP dynamics. The curia system would be very weird present-day, to explicitly discriminate in favour of the wealthiest. There are some alternate takes on the on the hook, like ALT1 "... that while 55% of the voters in the 1917 Łódź City Council election(poster pictured) were working class, they only got 10 out of 60 seats due to a curiae system implemented by the German authorities?" or ALT2 ... that the curiae-based electoral system used by German occupation authorities in the 1917 Łódź City Council election(poster pictured) disproportionally favoured the non-socialist Jewish parties? Now ALT2 would require a bit of a rewrite in article and need another image though. --Soman (talk) 19:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the clarity of image, I selected precisely because it had symbolism that was readable even at 100px. I don't think we'd expect people to read the fine print, but in 100px the number 5 is clearly visible (5 times) and the largest text is readable ('vote for our list'). The designer of the poster wanted that a reader catch the number 5 clearly even from a distance. --Soman (talk) 19:28, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My point is that many electoral systems intentionally or not result in disproportionate seats for certain parties at the expense of others, thus it cannot really be a surprising fact that this particular electoral system has that result. (t · c) buidhe19:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, this is not comparable to the issues from FPTP or STV electoral systems. Here was a case where an electoral system was explicitly designed to give a absolute majority to the wealthiest sections of society, with the explicit and publicly stated goal of ensuring a stable conservative majority. Now at the time the principle 1 citizen 1 vote was not universal by any means, but for present-day readers this is certainly something that would raise eyebrows. --Soman (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know a bit about how pre-German Revolution electoral systems worked in Germany (and as you've written here, applied to occupied territories), but the average reader doesn't. So I think if you are going to take that angle, it needs to be more clear in the hook. (t · c) buidhe22:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: Pirouzian et al. (2020), pg. 2: "The addition of the sugar particles promoted the formation of polymorphs with lower melting points. It was suggested that the sugar acted as a heterogeneous nucleation agent, prolonging the nucleation and growth of cocoa butter crystals since foreign surfaces acted as nucleation sites for crystallization"
Reviewed:
Converted from a redirect by Rollinginhisgrave (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
Source: In 2011, the company would change its identity twice. First to International Resources Enterprise Limited in April, and then to Nan Nan Resources Enterprise Limited in October.
Reviewed:
Comment: This is my first ever DYK nomination. Please give feedback to help make it better.
Created by DarthCloakedGuy (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
ALT1: ... that politician Teleke Lauti unseated a former Prime Minister, was unseated himself by a future Prime Minister, and later ran again to replace a former Prime Minister? Source: same for 'unseated a former Prime Minister'; lost to Latasi and Kausea Natano (future PM) in 2002 (could add another source verifying Natano as being a future PM if needed); Fenui News for running to replace a former PM (Latasi in 2018)
Comment: Open to other ways of wording. Would like it if it could be featured by the end of the month, prior to the end of the Wikipedia:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest (since I'm competing with the Tuvalu flag).
Created by BeanieFan11 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 246 past nominations.
... that the 48th Hong Kong International Film Festival canceled the screening of a politically themed film due to the "inability to locate suitable copies", despite the film being showcased 3 years ago?
^"國際電影節突取消放映《去年煙花特別多》 陳果感可惜:咩都可以發生" [[Hong Kong] International Film Festival Suddenly Cancels Screening of The Longest Summer — Fruit Chan Expresses Regret: Anything Could Happen.]. Ming Pao (in Chinese). 9 March 2024. Retrieved 7 September 2024. 原定在第四十八屆香港國際電影節中放映的《去年煙花特別多》日前突然取消,主辦方指「因找不到合適拷貝而未能放映」,改爲放映電影《墮胎師》。該電影由本港獨立電影導演陳果執導,他回覆本報查詢說,對於《去年》未能放映感到可惜,又稱近日才接獲電影節通知指沒有菲林拷貝而取消放映,不清楚是否涉及其他原因。《去年》於1998年上映,與《香港製造》及《細路祥》合稱「九七三部曲」,以香港主權移交及華裔英兵故事作爲背景,電影中亦穿插主權移交及解放軍入城等片段。 [The screening of The Longest Summer, originally scheduled for the 48th Hong Kong International Film Festival, was suddenly canceled. The organizers stated that it could not be shown "due to the inability to locate suitable copies", and the film The Abortionist will be screened instead. Directed by local independent filmmaker Fruit Chan, he responded to [Ming Pao's] inquiry by expressing regret that The Longest Summer could not be screened. He mentioned that he only recently received notification from the festival that there were no film copies available, and he is unsure if there are other reasons involved. The Longest Summer was released in 1998 and is part of the "1997 Trilogy," along with Made in Hong Kong and Little Cheung. It sets against the backdrop of Hong Kong's sovereignty handover and stories of Chinese-ethnic British soldiers. The film also features segments about the handover and the arrival of the People's Liberation Army.]
^"「找不到合適拷貝」 國際電影節撤播《去年煙花特別多 》" ["Unable to Find Suitable Copies": International Film Festival Withdraws Screening of The Longest Summer.]. Ming Pao (in Chinese). 10 March 2024. Archived from the original on 9 September 2024. Retrieved 7 September 2024. 第48屆香港國際電影節本月28日開幕,由獨立電影導演陳果執導的《去年煙花特別多》突然被取消放映,改為放映同由陳果執導的《墮胎師》。主辦方在電影節節目及訂票手冊中稱「因找不到合適拷貝而未能放映」。陳果昨回覆本報稱,對於《去》未能放映感可惜,近日才接獲電影節通知稱沒有菲林拷貝而取消放映,不清楚是否涉其他原因。翻查資料,《去》曾於2017年在香港藝術中心古天樂電影院放映,當年主辦方與今屆電影節主辦方同為香港國際電影節協會(HKIFF)。《去》2021年也曾在兆基創意書院放映室放映,播放的是35mm菲林拷貝。 [The 48th Hong Kong International Film Festival opened on the 28th of this month. The screening of The Longest Summer, directed by independent filmmaker Fruit Chan, was suddenly canceled, and it was replaced with The Abortionist, also directed by Fruit Chan. The organizers stated in the festival program and ticketing booklet that it could not be screened "due to the inability to locate suitable copies". Chan expressed regret over the cancellation of The Longest Summer, stating that he only recently received notification from the festival that there were no film copies available and is unsure if there are other reasons involved. According to records, The Longest Summer was previously screened in 2017 at the Hong Kong Arts Centre's Gigi Leung Cinema, with the same organizers as this year's festival, the Hong Kong International Film Festival Society (HKIFF). The film was also screened in 2021 at Lee Shau Kee School of Creativity, using a 35mm film copy.]
... that the physicist Alan J. Friedman walked through water to become the New York Hall of Science's director? Source: MacGowan, Carl (May 9, 2004). "1 museum $68M = Science City, Thanks to Alan Friedman, the future is bright at expanding Hall of Science". Newsday. p. G06
ALT1: ... that before becoming the New York Hall of Science's director, the physicist Alan J. Friedman walked through water to be interviewed for that position? Source: MacGowan, Carl (May 9, 2004). "1 museum $68M = Science City, Thanks to Alan Friedman, the future is bright at expanding Hall of Science". Newsday. p. G06
ALT3: ... that after the New York Hall of Science was renovated in the 1980s, all but three employees were fired? Source: MacGowan, Carl (May 9, 2004). "1 museum $68M = Science City, Thanks to Alan Friedman, the future is bright at expanding Hall of Science". Newsday. p. G06
Not a full review, but the interesting thing about the article is the fact that Jewish dairy restaurants even exist in the first place, considering kosher laws. I'd suggest proposing hooks that focus specifically on that aspect, as least as possible options for the promoter, as the mere concept of the Jewish dairy restaurant is the elephant in the room here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you elaborate what you mean? Dairy restaurants are kosher. That is the entire point of them. The laws say not to mix milk and meat, that's why there isn't any meat at a dairyrestaurant. Andre🚐12:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As a non-Jew myself, I just thought that the actual concept was interesting by itself. It might not be as obvious to observant Jews of course since they may take it for granted, but especially to people from places where Jews are not very visible it might be unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:02, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, yes, I see what you mean. Yeah maybe there could be an ALT1 like:
I do think the original hook is interesting, I only mentioned the suggestion above so that it could be offered as an option. It's probably best for a reviewer to make the final decision. I've slightly modified the original hook to give Trotsky's full name since not all readers may know who he is. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I will likely continue to develop parts of this article. Edit: there are other images as well that are square like this one File:US-$1-SC-1928-E-Fr.1605.jpg
Moved to mainspace by Bruxton (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 154 past nominations.
Intriguing hook, although the only mention in the article for chocolate is "the Rolling Chocolate in Heidelburg", which a) isn't the same thing unless you have another source saying they're sometimes called that for short and b) lacks an end-of-sentence citation.--Launchballer20:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that during the First World War the British army deployed companies of aliens to France?
Source: Although all eight were described as "Alien" companies, the originals were formed from the sons of foreign nationals, however from 1918 actual foreign nationals were used to form three companies , see eg: "the Director of Labour in France was informed that all Russians and other aliens whom 'it was not desirable to retain with fighting units' were to be sent to the Middlesex Regiment base depot at Etaples. Apart from the Russians, they were to be posted to the Middlesex Infantry Labour Companies ... This enabled three more Middlesex Labour companies to be formed." from: Messenger, Charles (30 April 2015). Call to Arms: The British Army 1914-18. Orion. p. 121. ISBN978-1-78022-759-7.
Although a "first" hook (a kind of hook that has been discouraged on DYK as of late), it is one that should be relatively easy to verify/support and thus not as an exceptional of a claim as most other "first" hooks. In addition, it's the highlight of her career, but more importantly, probably more interesting to a broad audience than just merely losing an election then winning/being appointed again later. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, ALT1 looks good to me; I've added a source already cited in the article at that sentence (in the body). She had some other "firsts" (first and only president representing a territory, first female deputy president, and I thought first female whip though I'm not finding a source on that right now) but only included the major one so as not to emphasize this too much per WP:FIRSTWOMAN. I wouldn't put it in the lead sentence, but it seems fine to me for DYK. If there are objections, though, I don't mind withdrawing the nomination. I also piped women to Women in the Australian Senate if that's alright. – Reidgreg (talk) 13:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This will not be a full review but DYK hooks need to be factual. If we run with this hook, we need to do something like ALT1: that according to legend, after obtaining the philosopher's stone, the monk Shin Iza Gawna caused gold and silver to rain down in Pagan, bringing great wealth to his followers?Bremps...06:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that photographer Charles Biasiny-Rivera and fellow members of the artistic collective En Foco drove around New York City in his Volkswagen Bus putting on art exhibitions in Latino neighborhoods?
... that despite still being the Memphis Tigers' all-time leading tackler over 30 years after his college career ended, Danton Barto never made it to the NFL?
... that an assistant to Texas chief geologist Benjamin Franklin Shumard named an oak species in his honor, but then foiled his reinstatement after he was let go by newly-elected Governor Sam Houston?
Source: in his honor: Buckley, Samuel Botsford (1860). "Description of Several New Species of Plants". Proc. Acad. Nat. Sci. Philadelphia. 12 (published 1861): 443–445 – via JSTOR.
see also: p.144 (p2 of pdf): Young, Keith (1994-01-01). "The Shumards in Texas". Earth Sciences History. 13 (2): 143–153.
ALT1: ... that Texas chief geologist Benjamin Franklin Shumard had an oak species named in his honor by an assistant in 1860, who then stymied Shumard's reappointment by Texas Governor Sam Houston? Source: same as above, trying different wording
Reviewed:
Created by ProfGray (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
Promising factoid, but with no provided citation to back it up here. Article was created 15 days ago (on September 3)—a week and change beyond the normal eligibility deadline—but became an AFC graduate on the 13th, so at least we're good here. Said article also has a ((more sources needed section)) banner, which fails WP:DYKCOMPLETE and might as well be addressed ASAP. To the editor now known as @PhoenixCaelestis: As far as your DYK skills are concerned, you're starting to get there, and with two go-rounds in this arena so far, I'll forgive you for that. Wishing you luck next time, and best of editing! --Slgrandson (How's myegg-throwing coleslaw?) 12:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
St. Stephen's Episcopal Church (San Luis Obispo, California)
Source: "Phoebe Apperson Hearst died on April 13, 1919.
She was one of America’s greatest philanthropists,
having given away more than $21 million to educa-
tional and charitable causes. She was instrumental
in the founding of the Parent Teachers Association
as a national movement. She also successfully pro-
moted kindergartens as an aspect of American edu-
cation. She helped many causes on the Central
Coast. She gave a pipe organ to her parish when in
residence at the Rancho Piedra Blanca: St. Ste-
phen's Episcopal Church in San Luis Obispo"
... that the Polish adventure and travel novel for the youth, From Warsaw to Ojców, was "highly regarded novel in its time", and inspired another novel by another writer half a decade later? Source: see Makuch (2013), Kuliczkowska (1959, 1973) as cited in the article
Reviewed:
Comment: QPQ pending.
Created by Piotrus (talk) and Oliwiasocz (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 522 past nominations.
Source: Overlaid with gleaming 21st-century filigree, this esthetic delight hints at pattern and order, embedded in randomness. “They are Henry Markram’s neurons – or rather, from his rat brains,” explains Segev, “and we at ELSC had the idea of this neuron trellis wrapping round the building.” https://www.jpost.com/Jerusalem-Report/In-sickness-and-in-health-540756
Reviewed:
Comment: I am trying to find a better image to illustrate the neuron screen
Created by Simxaraba (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
More of a comment than a review, but while I do think the hook is marginally interesting, I imagine theater actors being offered roles in plays they'd never seen before is actually not uncommon. As such, I wonder if additional hook angles could be proposed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:07, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5: that's a reasonable point, though this was what I deemed to be the most interesting "factoid" in the article. And even if it really were the case (that this is "actually not uncommon"), how many times have such hooks appeared on DYK? It sure can't beat the river-related hooks of yesteryear 😆 KINGofLETTUCE 👑🥬14:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that June Franklin was the first African American in an Iowa major political party to be elected as the Assistant Minority Leader of the Democratic House?
Source: "In recognition of her demonstrated leadership skills, she was elected during the 63rd General Assembly to the position of Assistant Minority Leader of the Democratic House. Franklin is the first African-American to hold such a leadership position in either major political party in Iowa." - Silag, Bill (2001). Outside In: African-American History In Iowa 1838-2000. State Historical Society of Iowa. pp. 349–350. ISBN0890330131.
Not a huge fan of the hook angle given that being an assistant minority leader doesn't seem as impressive being an actual minority leader. There do seem to be some other possible alternatives in the article so here they are:
ALT1 ... that Iowa politician June Franklin worked as an insurance agent and a real estate agent prior to entering politics?
ALT1a ... that Iowa state representative June Franklin worked as an insurance agent and a real estate agent prior to entering politics?
ALT2 ... that Iowa politician June Franklin wrote to 10 members of the US Congress urging them to declare Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday a federal holiday?
ALT3 ... that state representative June Franklin addressed the nation from the Iowa State Capitol following the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.?
Comment: For this week's factoid, you can thank Thriley (talk·contribs) for influencing me.
The initials of this block's home network once stood for "The Learning Channel", but as you shall soon see, there's a reason they also stand for "tender loving care".
Yet another revamp of yet another long-neglected kidvid article (after last month's stint on The Book of Virtues). And by "long-neglected", there are no kind words for how much this got dragged across the mud over the first 18 years of its existence, suffering the slings and arrows of IPs and vandals with no substantial improvement--or serious research--in sight. To the point where TenPoundHammer (talk·contribs) and Liz (talk·contribs) put the old version out of its misery by May 2022 per WP:NTV. Quoting the former:
"Tagged for notability since 2013. Program blocks are far less likely to be notable on their own, and I see no reason for this one to be so."
Not for long, though.
One night last week, I came across Kenny the Shark's status report at this page on TV Tropes--which had me wondering about a demographically related Discovery property, the one I've nominated right now. Looking up Ready Set Learn!InPrivate, I was astonished there was no article on the block, only to learn it had been deleted some time ago. Plan of action: Search it up at WP:LibraryProQuest, invoke WP:THREE at WP:RFUD, and hope for the best. And you can easily guess what happened next till this Monday and beyond--complete with official exclamation mark, and proof of its CableACE win back in 1995. (Rehabbed through the AFC process.)
Don't know what to say next...other than I may need another cooldown from WP eventually. (Besides, I'm trying to get a long-gestating NaNoWriMo project of mine rejuvenated off-WP today or tomorrow.) Or maybe not, as my AFC queue will quickly prove; I feel like taking a stab at a couple of pre-queue efforts before this week's over. Once again, see you back soon with another kidlit pick.
From one of this block's fellow viewers in the Commonwealth of Dominica back then (through the Marpin cable service).
Source: Pages 568–569 of this dissertation includes a long quote from Garrison's piece in the Newburyport Herald reacting to American Writers, including: "A word of advice to Mr. Neal before we part. If he venture to place his foot again on our soil, we say — Critic! gardez bien! or you may reap that reward for your vile labors, which you so richly merit."
... that Veto was a Polish collectible card game inspired by the history of Poland, published from 2004 to 2017? Source: see Mochocki 2017 and 2024, cited in the article
Reviewed:
Comment: QPQ pending. This is my article translated by another editor from pl wiki.
Created by Piotrus (talk) and Oliwiasocz (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 520 past nominations.
Article is new enough and long enough. The sources do seem to suggest the subject exists. The article seems sourced and presentable. The proposed hook seems quite bland, stating only that a historical card game exists. It doesn't even convey the fun concept of the liberum veto I assume the game is named after, although the article does not mention this either. Some new hook options are needed. As an administrative point, there is now somewhat of a consensus that QPQs should be included with nominations, so there is a need to carry it out here soon. Best, CMD (talk) 20:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: "Mr. Irwin Smith [...] has demonstrated conclusively that all the apparent exceptions to the "Law of Reentry" be explained and justified in one way or another. His thesis, which I take to be unexceptionable, provides the clinching proof that Macbeth is not the Third Murderer" — The Third Murderer in Macbeth
ALT1: ... that the law of reentry is cited as an explanation for a character's abrupt exit off the stage in Richard II? Source: "Almost the only “rule” in London theater that was still faithfully followed was the one we now call, for convenience, the law of reentry [...]. Thus, in Richard II, John of Gaunt makes an abrupt and awkward departure purely to be able to take part in a vital scene that follows." — Shakespeare: The World as Stage; also discussed in Their Exits and Reentrances, p. 9 and Shakespeare's Hand in "The Second Maiden's Tragedy" p. 5
ALT2: ... that because of the law of reentry, characters in Elizabethan theatre could not leave the stage at the end of a scene and immediately reenter in the next? Source: "Finally, a word may be said about Prolss' "Law of Re-entry" as it bears upon the matter of act-intermissions. Briefly the law is this: Characters leaving the stage at the end of a scene to reappear at another locality are, to avoid confusion, not permitted to re-enter immediately" — The "Act Time" in Elizabethan Theatres
ALT3: ... that some scholars believe many scenes in English Renaissance plays include "speeches or even scenes otherwise unnecessary" to avoid violating the law of reentry? Source: "Neuendorff considers Prölsz's Law of Re-entry (that no character shall leave the stage and immediately re-enter if the scene is meanwhile supposed to have changed) at some length, and finds it of the greatest influence upon dramatic construction. It accounts for the many scenes beginning or ending with a monologue, and for the insertion of speeches or even scenes otherwise unnecessary." — What We Know of the Elizabethan Stage
Reviewed:
Comment: Since this article deals with something governing the way characters exit and enter the stage in English Renaissance plays, I'm not actually sure if any of these run afoul of the "must focus on a real-world fact" thing, so I've provided a lot of hooks.
5x expanded by TenTonParasol (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
Source: "Doder, who was known for his scoops, was reporting for The Post in February 1984 when he noticed hundreds of lights blazing at the Soviet Defense Ministry in Moscow. He surmised that the Soviet leader, Yuri Andropov, had died. United States officials, dismissing the suggestion, said that Mr. Doder was “smoking pot,” as he and Ms. Branson wrote in a 2021 memoir, “The Inconvenient Journalist.”
“Soviet television and radio Thursday night unexpectedly changed scheduled programs to classical music,” Mr. Doder’s dispatch read. “The unusual change came against the backdrop of the illness of Soviet leader Yuri Andropov.”"
ALT1: ... that the title of the 1968 album The United States of America was intended to be a political statement akin to "hanging the flag upside down"?
Source: Path Lit by Lightning: The Life of Jim Thorpe (Thorpe said "[Archiquette] was my football idol and in our scrub games with the homemade football I always tried to emulate him") / Carlisle Vs. Army ("[Thorpe] was particularly taken with the team's star runner, an Indian boy named Chauncey Archiquette ... One day, Thorpe told himself, I'm going to be as tough as Chauncey ... [Thorpe, after watching practice] raced back and forth over the empty field, zigging here, zagging there, trying to emulate his idol.")
@BeanieFan11: Although Thorpe was a highly accomplished and iconic athlete of his era, I'm not actually sure if most Americans today know who he is or at least recognize his name (speaking as a non-American). In addition, I don't know if Thorpe is a name that is known internationally. As such, the hook as currently written may not be broadly interesting enough to meet WP:DYKINT. Additional hook suggestions are probably needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll probably have to cite WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE here: don't assume everyone worldwide is familiar with your subject. And for what it's worth, I made a bit of an informal survey about this on Discord, and the three editors who responded said they didn't know who Thorpe is. Note that my thoughts about the hook are independent of the survey; in fact, I made the survey because I wanted to know if American editors might find the hook interesting and to check my own thoughts. As for the nomination itself, the safest option here is probably to try a completely different angle. While ALT1 is arguably a better option, as you said, it loses some of the punch with the additional context. Thorpe is no Lionel Messi or Michael Jordan to warrant the angle, methinks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm rather stunned at the idea that Thorpe isn't well known enough. I don't really see any other good options with the article as well. Would changing the hook so that it does not mention Thorpe, but still has that aspect, work? – I.e. something like ALT2 ... that the "greatest athlete in the world" was inspired by Chauncey Archiquette? (I'd need to add the quote to the article, but Thorpe has widely been called that.) BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a better hook, but I'm not sure if it will pass scrutiny. DYK usually wants quotes in quote hooks to be attributed whenever possible, but adding an attribution to the hook would probably weaken the article's punch. It might be a good idea to seek opinions from other editors who are experts on wordsmithing like RoySmith, Theleekycauldron, or Launchballer. In any case, I'd suggest dropping any hook that directly mentions Jim Thorpe per WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE and either having only ALT2 for consideration for now, or trying a different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that the Ansorge Hotel's(pictured) pressed tin siding likely saved the hotel from burning in 1911?
Source: Kettle River Journal 7/15/1911 "The Ansorge Hotel across the street was badly scorched, but owing to the metal covering was saved."
The Spokesman-Review 7/14/1911 "The Ansorge Hotel, across the street, was badly scorched, but owing to the metal covering was saved. The heat broke all of the windows and scorched the casings"
ALT1: ... that a red light in the corner bay window of the Ansorge Hotel(pictured) told rumrunners of revenue men in town? Source: "Ansorge hotel". Ferry County Historical Society. "When the "revenuers" were staying at the Ansorge the propriators placed a red light in a second floor corner window to notify the bootleggers that barrel retrieval in town was not safe."
ALT2: ... that the Ansorge Hotel(pictured) may have hosted Henry Ford on the night of July 31, 1911? Source: Ghost towns of the Pacific Northwest pg65 "The Ansorge claimed Henry Ford as one of its guests in 1917" Exploring Washingtons Past pg32 "The Ansorges greatest glory came in 1917 when Henry Ford chekced in while visiting relatives who lived in the area." NRHP catalogue page 5 of nomination form "The guest register for july 31, 1917 bears the signature of a "Henry Ford, Detroit Mich." and local residents agree that this was the Ford of the Ford Motor Company"
Source: "In March 1943, the Political Warfare Executive at Woburn Abbey began broadcasting from two radio stations, Deutscher Kurzwellensender Atlantik and Soldatenseder Calais. These purported to be authentic German transmitters, but in fact had been developed to undermine German morale, and in particular to target U-boat crews ... The objective was to subvert the discipline of enemy submariners by providing continuous first-class music, news, and feature programs every night between 1830 and 0800. Interspersed with German dance bands and singers recorded in the United States, Atlantik spread rumors, issued depressing news bulletins, and generally sought to destroy the seamen's faith in their leadership by contradicting what they had heard from Germany on official channels." from: West, Nigel (2010). Historical Dictionary of Naval Intelligence. Rowman & Littlefield. pp. 90–91. ISBN978-0-8108-6760-4.
... that Alfredo Arreguín has been called the "dean of Latino art in the Pacific Northwest"?
Source: Marmor, Jon (September 2001). "For Alfredo Arreguin, art blooms from adversity". University of Washington Magazine.
ALT1: ... that Alfredo Arreguín has represented both the United States and Mexico in the international art world? Source: Brown, Quinn Russell (2023-05-07). "Alfredo Arreguín, Painter of Myth and Memory, Dies at 88". Hyperallergic. Retrieved 2023-05-09.
Reviewed:
5x expanded by ProfessorBeaver (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
Comment: Very popular Georgian trans model who has been murdered the day after the country's parliament passed an anti-LGTBI propaganda law, shocking the country. Article was created 3 days ago and is short, but have 2,027.
Created by Alsoriano97 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
... that rebel fighters pursued their fleeing enemies during the Battle of Kembogo because they wanted new boots?
Source: Kainerugaba, Muhoozi (2010). Battles of the Ugandan Resistance: A Tradition of Maneuver. Kampala: Fountain Publishers, p. 133, quote: "'Our men were all intent on physically laying hands on the enemy' continued Kavuma. Somebody had put out the word that Special Brigade had recently been supplied with new boots; it became the personal mission of every soldier in Mobile Brigade to get a pair".
ALT1-a: ... that, in hopes of gaining good luck, six girls from the Alantaya area were married to Khun Tan, a layman who claimed to be the future Buddha?
I don't see the hook in the article. It is OR to interpret labelling one's enemy "Amalek" as applying biblical command to "spare no one". I haven't checked the sources, but the article does not support the hook. Srnec (talk) 17:14, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the original hook I was thinking of is ALT1 below but I wasn't sure if it would be accepted either.
I'll take a stab at this. I trust Buidhe to be the subject expert and do good research, but I concur that the section on "Justification for violence" here is a bit underdeveloped for the hooks proposed. I can't find the text of the article clearly confirming ALT0. As for ALT1, I'd ask "justification for what"? Carrying genocide? But that is not clear from the short quote about Pope Urban in the 11th century and then... Martin Luther? Did Luther called or tried to justify some genocide? I'd ask for that section to be expanded, clearly stating who said what, and in particular, who might have tried to justify genocide. The second paragraph in that section is more clear, and perhaps an ALT2 about "Genocide in the Hebrew Bible being used by Israeli leaders to justify their actions in the Israel-Hamas war" might be fine, and would probably draw more views too. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here05:06, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bini at Billboard Korea's Billboard K Power 100 event
... that the Filipino girl group Bini surpassed Taylor Swift after two years as the most-streamed artist on Spotify Philippines?
Source: Inquirer.net"American singer-songwriter Taylor Swift has had the Philippines enthralled for two full years, almost three, with the Grammy-award-winning artist staying at the No. 1 spot on Spotify's Daily Top Artists Philippines Chart. On June 16, a P-pop girl group came from behind and snatched the throne from her."
ALT1: ... that the music video for Bini song "Cherry on Top" reached over 2 million views within 24 hours and hit number one on YouTube Philippines for music and iTunes chart? Source: ABS-CBN News
ALT2: ... that Bini upcoming concert "Grand BINIverse" sold out within two hours, breaking records, and will be held over three days? Source: Daily Tribune
that the Filipino girl group Bini dethroned Taylor Swift after two years as the most-streamed artist on Spotify Philippines? I'm not familiar with the DYK nomination process, but a suggestion and comment, wouldn't it be better to replace "dethroned" with "surpassed" for a more neutral tone? AstrooKai (Talk • Contributions) 07:36, September 22, 2024 (UTC)
Comment: DrThneed wrote the bio but she's a tad busy, hence she's asked me whether I would like to see this through the DYK process. I'm only too happy to oblige as Jeya Wilson is such a fascinating person. If you have time, I suggest you watch her opening speech at the Oxford Union debate, which is linked from the source above. And if you want to be in for a treat, wach David Lange's speech (second-to-last speaker) – an absolute stunner of a performance. Almost every New Zealander knows one of the lines that he delivered in that speech.
Moved to mainspace by Schwede66 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 162 past nominations.
... that Marine chaplain Francis W. Kelly(pictured) was known as "Father Foxhole" for his insistence on being on the front lines of the Pacific Theater?
Hi Darth Stabro, review follows: article moved to mainspace on 23 September and exceeds minimum length; article is well written and cited inline throughout; I don't have access to all of the sources but they look to be reliable and I didn't find any issues with overly close paraphrasing on a spotcheck of ones I could access; for the image do you have any evidence it was taken by a serving US military person, other than the setting of it? Its immediate source is a US newspaper. Hook is interesting but the nickname is only mentioned in the lead and that it was awarded for "his insistence on being on the front lines" isn't mentioned.
Thanks, give me a ping when you hear back and I'll pop back to complete the review. As you say the photo is almost certainly taken for official purposes but good to have confirmation - Dumelow (talk) 15:26, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... that the front façade, gateway, mosque and minaret of Barquq Castle in the Gaza Strip were still standing until 2024?
Source: Abu Khalaf 1983, p. 182: "Nowadays the Khan is almost demolished, but the front part, which consists of the fac;ade including the gateway and the Mosque with its minaret still stands."
... that part of the site of Granville Colliery in Derbyshire, England, is now used as a dry ski slope (pictured)?
Source: "The area has been much landscaped in the construction of the South Derbyshire Ski Centre" from: "Monument record MDR7950 - Granville Colliery (No. 1) Swadlincote". Derbyshire Historic Environment Record. Derbyshire County Council. Retrieved 22 September 2024.
ALT1: ... that a mine worker was "shattered to fragments" by a 1911 explosion at Granville Colliery but his horse survived being thrown high into the air? Source: "The national press reported that his body was "shattered to fragments" by the blast ... There are those, however, who witnessed Bodycote's horse and cart hurled high into the air, the horse being practically uninjured." from: Kreft, Helen; Lodge, Matthew (30 October 2021). "The tragic story that led to the name of a Derbyshire road". Derbyshire Live. Retrieved 16 September 2024.
New enough: - The nomination on was 22 September, but the article was created 5 July. It also looks like most of the prose came on 5 July too, so it wasn't expanded 5x in that time. The newness criteria was not met.
Overall: Hi Launchballer, many thanks for expanding this great article. Are you OK to share credit with User:Gr8gibsoni, given that their original creation is within the 7 days so also qualifies? On the hook, I am fine with either of the top two hooks. On the first, the Guardian source seems to have been written before the show aired – are you sure they formally decided to dispense with rotating presenters? And on the second, I couldn’t see the 20 years mentioned in the Guardian article, and I don’t have access to the Telegraph article – would it be possible to bring a quote? Onceinawhile (talk) 06:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Guardian refers to the British version dispensing with guest hosts in 2002 and that piece was written in 2024. Regarding the Telegraph, if you're quick, you can just use Ctrl+A --> Ctrl+C to copy the article elsewhere before reading it or you can use archive.ph to archive it. However, upon rereading it, I don't see where it spells out that it was in fact broadcast (he could conceivably have been given a preview copy) so I've added one that does. I have no objection to sharing credit.--Launchballer10:06, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK thank you Launchballer. Let’s go with ALT0 re guest host / permanent host. Please could you add a sentence into the article to make this crystal clear – to my read, someone clicking through to find out what the hook was referring to will struggle to piece it together at the moment. Ideally the new sentence would be supported by a source which states explictly that the show will have a permanent host (this is implied in every source I have read, but not quite spelled out in most cases). Onceinawhile (talk) 11:48, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Latenighter.com, which I've just added, writes that "Have I Got News For You, CNN’s highly-anticipated new comedy program, has found its host in The Daily Show veteran Roy Wood Jr.", emphasis mine. (It's a shame that UKGameshows.com probably isn't reliable.)--Launchballer12:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source: "Hidden down an alley in one of Edinburgh's most upmarket suburbs lies a Wild West-style ghost town ... The street, also known as El Paso, is in a lane off Springvalley Gardens, and is accessed through an opening in a block of tenement flats." from: "The Wild West-style ghost town hidden in an alley". BBC News. 10 March 2023. Retrieved 23 September 2024.
... that Ye Gongchuo(pictured) worked for emperors, warlords, and republicans, before leaving politics to focus on art?
Source: Mostly supported by Powell, J. B., ed. (1925). Who's Who in China. Shanghai: Millard's Review.; leaving politics is supported by Andrews, Julia F.; Shen, Kuiyi (2012). The Art of Modern China. Berkeley, California: University of California Press. ISBN978-0-520-23814-5.
ALT1: ... that Ye Gongchuo(pictured) dealt duck head pills in Shanghai? Source: Yan Jiasen (严家森) Ma Xiao (马潇) (5 August 2003). "[祖孙篇 叶衍兰 叶恭绰] 进则为达官,退亦是名士" [[Grandparents and Grandchildren: Ye Yanlan and Ye Gongchuo] If You Advance, You Will Be a High Official; If You Retreat, You Will Be a Famous Scholar]. Southern Metropolis Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 12 August 2022. Retrieved 23 September 2024. (他曾极力推动成立上海博物馆,后来还把重金购得的稀世珍品——晋朝王献之的《鸭头丸帖》真迹,慨然捐献给了上海博物馆。; "He had strongly promoted the establishment of the Shanghai Museum, and later donated the rare treasure he had purchased at a high price, the original copy of the "Duck Head Pills" by Wang Xianzhi of the Jin Dynasty, to the Shanghai Museum.")
ALT2: ... that, when China needed to standardize its railway terminology, it sent for a poet? Source: Powell, J. B., ed. (1925). Who's Who in China. Shanghai: Millard's Review.; Yan Jiasen (严家森) Ma Xiao (马潇) (5 August 2003). "[祖孙篇 叶衍兰 叶恭绰] 进则为达官,退亦是名士" [[Grandparents and Grandchildren: Ye Yanlan and Ye Gongchuo] If You Advance, You Will Be a High Official; If You Retreat, You Will Be a Famous Scholar]. Southern Metropolis Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 12 August 2022. Retrieved 23 September 2024. (via Guangdong Library)
Fisheries in the Philippines, Aquaculture in the Philippines, Municipal fisheries in the Philippines, Commercial fisheries in the Philippines, History of fisheries in the Philippines
Comment: Emi Shinohara is two reviews. Also reviewed were Pabhāvatī, Grupo Mexicano de Desarrollo, S.A. v. Alliance Bond Fund, Inc., and Verna Mersereau. This nomination combines five articles into one hook for administrative ease and to not repeat the same topic on DYK, although I can suggest individual hooks if desired. There's a fun fact about the death of Hirohito. Due to the interrelated nature of the articles there is duplicated text between them, however there should be a DYKs-worth of unique text in all. As always, open to other hook suggestions.
Created by Chipmunkdavis (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 5. Nominator has 47 past nominations.
... that the 1128 Battle of Axspoele(participant pictured) was a rare case of a mass cavalry charge in western Europe in the High Middle Ages?
Source: "in the west battle was uncommon and mass cavalry charges were rate ... only at Axspoele on 21 June 1128 was there anything resembling a mass cavalry charge and here numbers were small" from: France, John (15 May 2017). Medieval Warfare 1000–1300. Routledge. p. 60. ISBN978-1-351-91847-3.
ALT1: ... that before his victory at the 1128 Battle of AxspoeleWilliam Clito(pictured) ordered his knights to cut their hair and remove opulent clothing as a sign of penance? Source: "before battle he had all his knights cur off their long hair, cast off their rich garments and do penance for their sins as if they were expecting death" from: Crouch, David (15 October 2006). The Normans: The History of a Dynasty. A&C Black. p. 332. ISBN978-1-85285-595-6.
Comment: After creating this I realised the subject was already covered in a very short orphan article at Battle of Thielt (1128) which I have since redirected to this article. The new content is more than 5x the content here in any case.
Moved to mainspace by Dumelow (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 884 past nominations.
Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: Hold criteria; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: Six week limit.