Retrofitted with dynamic transclusion of User:Jerzy/Past Archive Phases. All New: 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 Orphaned: 500 1001 1501
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Deceptively Short, Fake, Overview Mini-ToC |
1 Welcome to the Page for "Talking" to Jerzy 3.1 Topical Archives |
Follow this link to this page's Table of Contents. You may find a section in it where a message from you, intended for my attention, could fruitfully be placed.
But the end of this page is always a good place to leave messages to me, especially if you start a new section by
The material between here and the ToC consists of
(These are some people's top priority, but most will prefer to jump to the Table of Contents, or add a message at the end.)
Years ago, i got stuck in my brain the idea that there's something wrong about modern English singling out the first-person singular pronoun to be spelled with a capital letter. So i spell it without the capital -- except at the beginning of a sentence, or when i'm not the sole author. If you follow my example, native speakers will just figure you're ignorant of the basics.
(I also say the above, and a bit more on my User page.)
These phases can be used not only for their text, but also for verifying the date & time when specific edits occurred and what registered or "IP" user at Wikipedia made the edits, via each phase's edit history.
Notes re history irregularities.
These all concern one area of interest, sometimes orient toward an article or articles with the same subject matter, sometimes otherwise connected
These are more chronological than my Topical Archives listed in the immediately previous section.
Somehow i left four msgs placed here in March 2007 undisturbed until January 2009, even tho they were placed out of order. They are now moved to #Forrest Gerst - proper location, in accord with the first time-stamp, 15:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Please present at Talk:Pope Stephen whatever evidence you have for your change there and at List of people by name: Step. Don't repeat it, as it merely sows confusion even if you are correct in thinking a change is needed.
--Jerzy•t 02:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy, I have no idea what exactly you tried to explain on my user talk page [1]
Anyhow,
--Francis Schonken 22:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Jerzy. Thanks for the comments and encouragement. You are right. I am brand new at this, but find it addicting. Since my first article was a biography, I found my way to the WikiProject Biography and followed the "11 Easy Steps to Producing at least a B Article" instructions there. I then visited pages of noteworthy people in similar industries to see how good articles were constructed and learned the formatting conventions that way. Poxie 18:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Either someone has changed the speedy deletion policy again or the previous shortcut "vanity" for "Unremarkable people or groups. An article about a real person, group of people, band or club that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject" has somehow changed. - Skysmith 14:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
The delete tags were clearly not invalid and the ((hangon)) text allows for deletion in such cases; criterion R1 (redirect to nonexistent target) applied in this case. (ESkog)(Talk) 15:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy. Thanks for letting me know. I've no objection to the edit, and it's a credit to you that you felt the way you did about it. I actually didn't intend the description to be heavy-hitting (I thought it was just the natural way to describe him) but I can see how that kind of thing taken in general can lead to edit wars and overly-verbose descriptions.
But the "extra-neutral" policy for LoPbN does cause some logistical issues. There's no trouble with calling Kabuga a businessman, and that's even sort of connected with his more unsavoury role. But for some of the genocidaires, there's just nothing especially remarkable about them other than that. Any ideas? I guess "Rwandan man" will do. --Saforrest 05:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
I really don't see the harm of putting images on the LoPbN pages. Errabee 09:55, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi! Thanks for your comments on my page about the politician. The reason I made the edit was not to upset you, but simply because I have never heard the phrase "American Puerto Rican", specially among those that were born in the island. If a person is Puerto Rican but born outside, specially when it comes down to the United States, they are nicknamed "Newyorrican".
I didn't try to make a point of view. It's simply that you hardly ever hear native Puerto Ricans, even those who vote for the PNP, describe themselves as "American" and even those born in the States usually identify themselves as Puerto Rican, even if they know they are widely known as "Newyorrican" in the island.
I hope this doesn't hinder our friendship. I didn't try to make a point of view.
Thanks for letting me know on my user page and God bless you! Your friend, Antonio Flying Man Martin
replied on my talk page. —Charles P._(Mirv) 06:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the nice message on my talk page. I'm not quite sure how that revert managed to not catch all the vandalism. as you can see here [2], it reverted one of that IP address's edits, but not both of them. my only explanation is that i had just put in a new javascript revert button and it didn't seem to be working properly at the time (i didn't actually write that edit summary, it was automatic). It's working fine now, so I'm not sure what the problem was originally. Anyways, thanks for noticing and fixing the problem. I'll be sure to double check next time i make a revert where there are two edits by the same IP address since the last good version. Cheers, --B.U. Football For Life|Talk 12:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Jerzy, I noticed that our friend is still around and still hasn't grown up. Should you or others want to, feel free to update User:Isomorphic/Minions of the Church. Isomorphic 04:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I almost moved your msgs to your shorter talk page, so we could keep it all together there, but on second thot, let's leave it & keep it all together here; i'll leave you a msg on yr tk to look here.
--Jerzy•t 22:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Jerzy, thanks for editing & disambiguating Crawford Castle (and all the other related projects you found that I had touched). Please let me know how I attracted your attention so I can get such trusty help again. What was "mock" combat when David Lindsay won "a single (mock) combat with the Englishman Baron Welles"? Also, shouldn't a period be inside an end quote when it occurs at the end of a sentence? It seems to me Americans (who are not trying to put on heirs to be more like their UK brethren) put the period inside the end quote and Brits put it outside. I have several American grammars that insist the period goes within.--Lawnmowerman 07:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Jerzy, perhaps you can help me understand something about WP. Why are footnotes used infrequently? I used them in my article on Crawford Castle for an obvious reason - I have no personal knowledge of those events and wanted everyone to know where I got the information in case I was in error or to further someone else's research effort. In addition, I much appreciate the work you did, but I do not know where your information comes from. I now know (or think I know) that there was some "mock" battle but don't know where you have that from. I also know something about John de Welles, 5th Baron Welles (1352–1421) but have no idea where you got that either. Bibliographic references should not be good enough for the WK project, we need footnotes. Clearly there are many recurring phrases in WP that are lifted directly from some other published text (and I want to know precidely where). Best regards, --Lawnmowerman 08:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Being a lawyer, I thought I was good for something (e.g., research, writing) but not I see I am not nearly as good as I thought. I really need your help retracing the steps you went through to find the dates and the "mock" you added to the following sentence in the Crawford Castle article - "In 1398, Robert II gave the castle and the title of Earl of Crawford to David Lindsay, who had won great praise in 1390 for bravery in single (mock) combat with the Englishman Baron Welles." I have now spent almost 2 hours at work (I bill $320 hour) trying to figure out where you got that information on google using pre and post edit information and still have not found it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't make me keep trying but I am intrigued at how and where you found that information. Can you take a few moments to do either or both of the following, the first being the quickest but the latter being the more important: (i) send me the link to where that info comes from, and/or (ii) tell me how you found it. Best regards, --Lawnmowerman 15:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Why did you replace the contents with List of people by name: Gar with those of List of people by name: Gam-Gaq? What does your cryptic acronymic edit summary mean? JIP | Talk 08:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Jerzy, I need some help. First, where do I go to request help with a disambiguation? Here's where I'm at. I wanted to create a page for CANMORE - its a database maintained by The Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland but there was a page redirecting me to Canmore, Alberta - a city. I deleted the info on the redirect page but can't seem to get rid of the page itself. Can't create the CANMORE database page til I hear from you. Thanks --Lawnmowerman 20:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
A Dab is not a form of redirect, as you seem to assume in yr edit summarized as "Redirect bypass from William Burges to William Burges (architect) using popups". If yr popups enforced that summary, please don't use that tool in that way, and tell me where you got it so i know which toolmaker to complain to. Plz don't confuse your colleagues with false terminology.
--Jerzy•t 06:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jezy. I also left this question on Wikipedia:WikiProject Categories. I have an idea and was hoping someone could give me some guidance on whther its a good one, whether its permitted in WP, and if so, tips on how to do it. I have recently begun helping my children write some articles and stubs on WP. I would like to create a notation for articles that denote them (or flags them, if you prefer) as having been written by a "young author." I see WP as a fantastic way to educate my children in significant ways and hope perhaps the movement will catch on. In connection with the effort, I would like to have a special page for the "young authors project" etc. I would define young authors in some very generic way so as to protect identities. What do you think? Do you have any tips on how to do this or an "administrator" that would be particularly knowledgeable about how to do this? Thanks in advance for your help. --Lawnmowerman 14:45, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
_ _ Not remotely feasible -- in contrast with your concern abt documentation, which merely has no clear path to reality, even tho you may help it take place as the nature of WP evolves.
_ _ I recommend you concentrate more on studying WP documentation & looking at how experienced editors handle the situations you encounter in yr own editing. (In particular cases, recognize them by looking at least at their earliest contribution (for the date), and perhaps learn to use the edit-count tool tho you should take the cautions & reservations seriously; there are also 2K+ of experienced eds listed at WP:1000.)
_ _ In the long run you may find a role in improving verifiability standards, but Young Authors is the smoking gun re what was already my opinion. (That doesn't make me prescient; it's virtually inevitable for someone with so little experience in this unique environment.) Namely, you have far too little insight into the WP process to soon have any role in the kind of ambitions that you're feeling about the future of the project. And at this point neither you nor i has the remotest idea of what your long-term prospects for that are. But i hope you'll stick around and find out.
--Jerzy•t 15:22, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello, sorry for late responding. If your kind offer to block any potential use of the Buldozer username, I would appreciate this. Re: John Fisher descripions, if that has nort been corrected yet, I'll do it right away. Many tahnks for your valuable advice, offer and comment. Buldożer 10:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Those edits were certainly not mine. Well, OK, let's leave that as it is. Many thanks for your interest and help, but it looks that we just can't do anything with it. Cheers, Buldożer 21:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Thank you very much for moving Islamofascism (term) to Islamofascism. You've made my day. -Silence 03:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Er, should this article really be called Peter Abélard? Pierre Abélard, fine. Peter Abelard, also OK (I'm sure the MoS tells us which). But Germanic first name, French second? Uh-uh. Do you mind if I fix this? Cheers, JackyR 21:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I've been looking over the "short pages" list, and I see that User:EGGS has tried to nominate some pages for deletion. They seem to have no content, so why do they need to still exist? Thanks, Ardric47 06:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow! Whatever happened to assuming good faith!? Regardless of your personal suspicions, bandying phrases like "disingenuous", "troll" and "nationalist PoV vandal" around are very unlikely to achieve anything, and I resent your using them.
Getting back to the main point, though: insisting on keeping the listing at "Owen Glendower" instead of "Owain Glyndŵr" is untenable, I think, since the article is at Owain Glyndŵr, and which is also the name used almost universally these days (much has changed since Shakespeare's time). Having a duplicate listing might be tolerable, but if everyone were listed at every possible spelling of their name, the list could get very cluttered indeed (e.g. Shakespeare, Shakspear, Shaxpir, etc.). I assumed there was one listing per person, and moved "Glendower" to "Glyndŵr". I thought you must have overlooked the second copy when you reinstated the "Glendower" listing. There must be, at least, a listing at "Glyndŵr"; any further spellings are optional. That said, the current situation is fine by me. --Stemonitis 06:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, shit happens. I did look into some recent history, but recent users like AndriuZ (talk · contribs) were not at all vandals. Fortunately there are many of us here. `'mikka (t) 20:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
By the way, don't you find that having this huge name list in two places leads to troubles? I suggest to leave it only in the "List of..." article. `'mikka (t) 20:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
For fixing that dab page Just Like That! JackyR 21:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed that you moved the disambiguation page to Nin proper, but what happened to the article on the Croatian town? It isn't linked and I can't seem to find it. --AHrvojic 03:20, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi, you may like to check Wikipedia:Vandalism#Types_of_vandalism. Spam is vandalism. HenryFlower 11:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, if you want to wade through a hundred spam edits and weed out the spam part, more power to you. I'm not that fluffy. HenryFlower 12:22, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Apologies for speaking somewhat loosely. My concern however, is not with the effectiveness per se of talk page spam, as with its temptingness. Since it works (or rather, since they think it works) it will happen if we allow it, so we shouldn't allow it. If you're volunteering to lovingly edit any future talk page spam, then I'll happily point you towards it rather than dealing with it myself. HenryFlower 10:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Simple_talk/Archive_2#bottom_line - I have written an answer. Yes, a little bit late, but if you're interested. -- Amtiss, SNAFU ? 16:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Hiya. Doing "speeling petrol" on 'descendents' and variants (like 'decedents' !) I came across some templates you were (are?) experimenting with (I think you noted a problem with too many names on your user page). Anyway, if you get back to it, the word is 'descendants'. One example I found was Template:List of people Cons descendents.
And if you might get irritated at the nit-picking, take a look at the link from my user page to Simple. I'm amazed anyone can learn English. Its tu mush, y'no? Shenme 01:15, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Apologies for the red link deletions on the LoPbN. I was merely following the general "rule" of most Wiki compendiums of people. I understand your point. However, with "red" links there is also the issue of people vandalizing the page and adding people who are not the least bit notable - as a few of the names I deleted were (i.e. "Joe So and So (born 1987), student and musician"). It becomes rather difficult on such large lists if there is not a biography to sort out who is indeed noteworthy and who is not if there is no reference.
Also, these lists tend to become extremely cumbersome, with people adding nearly everyone who ever existed who may have marginal ties to the Wiki subject. But, I do understand your point and will only delete names in that section that I am sure are non-notables or vandals. Sorry, once again. I also did add a number of names of individuals with Wiki bios to the list. Cheers. ExRat 07:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy, I'm about to do that stub about the astronomer John Carroll. All the refs I can find for him call him "John Carroll", rather than "John A Carroll": do you remember where you got the format of his name? (I suspect it's just a US back-formation from his full name, in which case I'll entitle the article by the form he would have used himself, ie no "A".
Btw, I'm hoping to make a page move: Margaret Rumer Godden to Rumer Godden, which is the name she published under (and was generally known by, as far as I can tell). The latter is currently a redirect to the former: what should I do? Many thanks, oh sage one... JackyR 22:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
_ _ Hopefully you're already aware that WP autobiographical articles are held to especially high standards. I confined myself to very routine chgs to yours, but there may be some of that "merciless editing" coming up, from others who undertake judging notability and relevance more fluently than i -- perhaps even from comedy fans. But i suppose you're used to hecklers. [grin] _ _ Let me add to your welcome, to what i hope will be a broader role as a colleague here. --Jerzy•t 14:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your welcome. I'm addicted. At least with WP I can add myself to the heckler chorus!!! :P
"Basil White sucks" should be cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of suck. basilwhite 15:05, 03 May 2006 (UTC)
Looks like we landed in the same place, which I think is good -- I have learned to be meticulous about checking referring pages when creating new pages (especially for names). A question, however -- since you deleted the original article John Herbert, why did you re-create it instead of just restoring it? Restoring seems a nice solution that doesn't destroy edit history. Thanks, Cleduc 00:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. You'll note the only edit I've made to the article was to remove the link to Brandon Crisp. It seemed like a clear vanity edit by an anonymous IP. The edit summary was mainly to avoid a lengthy explanation of notability to the IP involved. I am not about to undertake a campaign to remove redlinks :-) Gwernol 05:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
The template syntax of separating words of a user's name as different parameters has been obsoleted by a new function called ((urlencode:)).
In addition to converting exotic letters, it also changes spaces into "+", which is interpreted the same as an underscore (a literal plus sign becomes "%2B"). — May. 26, '06 [10:04] <freak|talk>
Hi Jerzy, this is regarding your recent renaming. I decided to set up a vote to move it back, and I don't want to do it behind your back. Please reconsider. Cheers. ←Humus sapiens ну? 00:38, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I've done all the T pages with mergenames. And didn't make many changes for the last dozen or so - it even handles the non-heading separators I dislike. Now I'm going to meditate on the result for a while (and do some editorial cleanup / manual editing) before figuring out what to do next. --Alvestrand 15:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I thought I had read all the relevant sections for testing the validity of creating a page, and I would like to dispute your contention that J Brill is a worthy deletion candidate. What I am continuing to build sources of material on John Brill and his Bardia Mural. With the publication of the letter from his mother and his being referred to in the Daily Mirror, I believed I had proven "broad interest" and showing the other websites that show tours to his Mural as well as interest in him and his mural I thought the case was proven. Can you help me understand what I missed. My fear is that this is the thin end of the wedge the next step will be to have the Bardia Mural Page proposed for deletion.
Libya is only just reopened as tourist destination so in terms of "previous potential" interest in John and his Murak, there cannot have been any.
I am not a relative of Mr Brill and have no intent to try and promote him. My goal is a simple one to help enable Wikipedia to be the most usefull complete Web Source of Knowledge.
What are the reasons for your proposed deletion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 40.0.96.1 (talk) 16:17, 2 June 2006
Hey, what's up? I thought I was being a good little Wikipedian by reading and heeding the recommendations spelled out in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates of birth and death and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dashes), and duly converted many of my previous edits painstakingly to include the en dash. Then you come along and get rid of the "edit-impeding n-dashes" on List of people by name: Hua-Huf. Is this a new movement among some editors, or is it just a personal preference? -- Muffuletta 07:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
As a past participant in the discussion on how to handle the Georgia pages, I thought you might be interested to know that there's a new attempt to reach consensus on the matter being addressed at Talk:Georgia (country)#Requested_Move_-_July_2006. Please come by and share your thoughts to help form a consensus. --Vengeful Cynic 04:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
no, they are the the same. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=candelabra%20. doens't make a difference to me.
Jon513 16:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the informative comments to my talk page, as well as your contributions to the talmud/tractate issue.
I think that LoPbN is an important project, and so I've been contributing to it in spurts. In terms of formatting, I've tried to follow your lead, since you obviously have some seniority in the project. I did take a look at the various talk pages for LoPbN, but they are so very long that I guess I didn't have the patience to sift through them all. I appreciate your clarifications on my talk page, which I'll try to keep in mind in future edits. --Eliyak T·C 06:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I've created a template for LoPbN name entries. My main motivation for it was the annoyance involved in copying large numbers of names twice so that they show up correctly (last name first). I thought I'd get your approval before actually using it in the list --Eliyak T·C 22:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Apparently I made a mistake again. Sorry! --Sangak12:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
If you find support in the Dab documentation for a ToP Dab on Dee L. Brown, pls let me know. (For the sake of fixing my understand, or fixing the documentation.) My argument is that people who want Dee L. Brown will go to Dee Brown but not (to any extent worth the clutter) the reverse. Thus Dee Brown must be a Dab or have a ToP Dab, but Dee L. Brown may have one only it if is to help reach other people named "Dee L. Brown" (including e.g. Dee Lamont Brown).
--Jerzy•t 20:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
There is some discussion currently taking place about lists of people by surname on the surname pages at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)#Hndis needs its own Manual, if you are interested.
-- JHunterJ 12:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I was removing those ToCs directives so that one does not need to scroll down for every other page esp. when there are only a couple of entries. I understand the presence of empty pages, but felt that the ToC dirctive is unnecessary (because I think that wikipedia adds a ToC automatically when the number of sections increases beyond certain number). Anyhow it doesn't make a significant difference and I will try to aviod that next time. YashKochar 05:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Did you by chance mean that WP:V is not part of WP:PROD instead of WP:CSD? I didn't mention verifiability in the speedy delete nom; I just used ((db-group)). I realize now that I shouldn't have put it in the ((prod)) tag, but I was ennumerating some of the many issues with the article (and was admittedly frustrated that the speedy tag was removed). I'll be more careful in the future. Thanks! -- Merope 02:09, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Well I looked it over and spent some time trying to find proof of his notabilty and couldn't but with two others thinking he might I decided to prod it. If I'd seen it before the speedy was on I would have probably deleted and then waited for someone to yell at me (again). Sorry I couldn't give you better news. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
For this. Best. notafish }<';> 11:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for the reference to "The Naylor Sonnets"" in the article on James Naylor. However the article on Kenneth Boulding doesn't mention his poetic and creative side, or his remarkable wife. Hope someone can do something about that!Vernon White 22:27, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Jerzy, I must thank you. My edits concerning the three painters was - simply put - wrong. I'm pleased that this error was caught. I've reverted. Again, my thanks. Victoriagirl 16:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
This was the version I worked on September 21, 2006. No vandalism, no weasel words, sourcing, and no copyright violations. This edit war with Lmz00 has gotten to a point where I refuse to answer to the user. The user cannont resolve this dispute without using inactive comments toward myself and others. It's just simplified just to compromise a fair look at the article without using too many links and notable likeness. And for the user to use 50 instead of 50 Cent, that just another way of saying a number said this instead of a rapper. Just look at the current version. The last time I edit this article was about at least a week ago. I asked for a protection to inactive users who choose not to compromise, and refuse to work as a community. I hope this version (I left above in the link) is used on this article.
This is the current version that User Lmz00 left after I ceased the edit war. And yes, this is what is on the article (and you can decide)!
Multiple use of name of Sean Combs. Here the list of words, Diddy, Puffy, P. Diddy, Combs, Sean "Puffy Combs is located throughout the whole article. All I suggested was to used was mogul or rapper, to cease the constant use of the person's name. (Inproper use of proper names)!
Mase still claimed the status of a pastor. The album contained no curse words and was not derogatory in any way towards females. (Weasel words)!
'50 was in talks with Diddy to buy Mase from Bad Boy in order to sign him to G-Unit. However, those talks fell through, prompting 50 to make a diss record towards Diddy titled "The Bomb" (which accuses him of stalling said negotiations). In addition, 50 also mentions no longer wanting to make a deal. (Inproper wording of proper names, weasel words, and not neutral in explaining feud with rappers)!
Mase's desire to leave Bad Boy is primarily due to his third album not selling so well. (This is an example of weasel words)!
This has been discredited however, by the wider hip-hop community. Mase has also been called a hypocrite by former G-Unit member, The Game, who called out the pastor (as well as other G-Unit members) on his anti-G-Unit DVD, Stop Snitchin', Stop Lyin'. (Another example of weasel words)!
Ok that it. Thanks. LILVOKA 15:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello, pardon for typing in this editbox. Do not know how to add the comments proper way. Have a suggestion to make about the diode bridge rectifier. Having arrows on each alternation (where current leaves and enters in diagram)for students getting it first time helpful. Otherwise nice article and can be expanded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.91.201 (talk) 10:01, 3 October 2006
_ _ An editor undertook what they described as an intervention, and attempted to sustain it in the face of my insistence they go away. While there is no support in the WP community for such behavior, and i chose not to permit the distraction to continue, my personal outlook and WP's outlook both support the idea that recording controversy and keeping it accessible is better than suppressing it, when information-disrupting effects like distraction and clutter are not, or are no longer, an issue.
_ _ So here's
followed by
--Jerzy•t 19:55, 3 November & 20:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
_ _ Dude, I am looking over your extensive edit history, and I want to share some guidance that no one else may have the guts or, more likely, care enough to do. You are quite obviously a very, very, very sick person. I can't even begin to imagine the scene: you sitting in your closet of a house editing this site all day with intensity and your eyes glued, looking for the next battle and declaring these little wars over nothingness. What posseses you to waste your life this way? Do you get laid? Do you need further explanations as to why you are wasting oxygen and DNA with your efforts? Do you have anyone who knows you waste your life like this? Please don't be offended. But please just stop. You have a very serious illness. See a psychologist but, for God's sake, peel yourself away from this web site and do something with your life before it's over and you are forgotten for the nothing you ever did and the nothing you ever became. You need to end this now, cold turkey.
_ _ Please respond, and not defensively, here. No sane person would look at what you do, day and night, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year and not conclude that you need a massive intervention. I have to think you are a very lonely, unhappy person, so no one probably knows of the depth of your sickness. So it falls to a stranger like me, I guess. You are so engrossed that I can't envision you just admitting what has become of you, but I am willing to start to introduce you to reality. Let's start with this question: How many hours of your short life have your poured into this wasted foolishness at the expense of actually living a life?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.101.12 (talk) 15:20-:34, 4 October 2006 152.163.101.12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
This is the most "contructive" thing that can ever be contributed as it relates to you and your involvement here: Please stop and think about the depth of your sickness, sitting there, with your face glued to your computer screen, uncompensated day after day, week after week, for YEARS, tinkering with the biographies of people you don't even know, who actually are out living real lives while you are imprisoned by your addiction. You have literally wasted years of your life with this lonely, self-destructive addiction and illness, which has been at the expense of living your own life. The depth of your mental illness must make it difficult for you to see the extraordinary insanity of your actions and how your addiction has stripped you of the life that was given you.
I know a few others have evaluated what you do here and laugh at you and your sickness. It's something of an inside joke, and I guess few share it with you because they consider you hopeless. That's not right either, and I'd ask them to please stop that and try to help you. Don't laugh at this person behind their back and then just communicate with them on routine matters. That lacks all caring for a person who has an obvious and very serious illness. Something is very wrong with him/her, and while it may not be for us to diagnose the exact problem, we should pause to help with advice. Please share with him/her what we all know. It's only humane to do so.
I will do so now too:
Jerzy (or whatever your name is--consciously concealed, I'm sure, to keep your illness as private as possible), please consider some uncomfortable facts: Years of your life have now been totally consumed and absolutely wasted by your deep, deep sickness and obvious addiction. Please don't make excuses for yourself. You cannot go on like this any longer. You need to stop, and you need to stop today. Reject this advice, and I worry that your sickness will probably only deepen and your addiction will waste whatever is left of your life. Please stop. It's over. Enough. Move on. I do wish you the best and hope you will take this friendly advice seriously. It will be the first and last time I share it, and I hope you know that I share it only with your best interests in mind. It's sad what has happened to you, but I wish you good luck and hope this advice is helpful. But please take it--and do so today. You cannot go on like this.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.101.12 (talk) 18:26-18:33, 4 October 2006 152.163.101.12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
James Leach -- Leach -- Leach (disambiguation) --James Leach (soldier)
Thanks for your comments on the Leach dab page. I was in two minds about deleting at first, but I spent quite a lot of time looking him up, and also saw the news article you mentioned. I would point out that the subject of the project page is one James Hess Leach, still alive and well, and did not die of AIDS. As proof, he bough Malbone Castle & Estate in 1995, five years after the other James Leach died.
User:Jhleach was the originator of the article, which was very poorly written and already tidied it up considerably by yours truly. You will be aware that he attempted to hijack the 'James Leach (soldier)' article.
No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the subject appears to be a little rich boy who was left his fortune (and a company) by daddy, and does not seem to have set foot outside of New England. He is a member of boards and associations in Providence, which may or may not underline his claim to be a philanthropist. Due to the mistaken identity, I can inform you that he certainly did not give $200k to Stanford. However, I tagged his article for lack of independently verifiable information, and even if he were notable, I still challenge someone to justify his using the label "Philanthropist". Ohconfucius 03:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't know why there should be a POV tag on this article. Which part of the article? If someone is questioning a sentence or paragraph, he/she should tag it with ((fact)). I don't see it anywhere.KaElin 00:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC) Illegitmate use of tag converted to mention.Jerzy•t 03:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:Lincher
Thank you for experimenting with the page List of people by name: Mo on Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. --Jerzy•t 06:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I went through reverting your edits removing these activists and candidates and the like from this category. I've added a reason on the category talk page but I thought I'd leave a personal message here to let you know in case you don't watch these pages. Briefly, these people are politicians, whether they've achieved office or not - one of them is a sitting councillor by the way, I assume his removal was a mistake - Wikipedia's definitions must be the point of reference for this, however failing to class these people as politicians is also massively counter-intuitive. Sorry to be a stickler for this, mate. Driller thriller 22:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC) P.S. What's with the dummy edits?
Thanks for taking some time with my Seymour Knox dab page. I pretty much agree with your suggestions. I feel I might want to add something about the Warhol however. I do think that a visitor to the Albright-Knox Art Gallery might ask "Is the Seymour Knox on display" Likewise, a Knox admirer might attend a Warhol exhibit and ask the same question. I do not see anything explicit against the portrait. TonyTheTiger 18:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Additionally, placing this on the dab page with the proper wikilink disambiguates which Seymour Knox is the subject of the portrait. TonyTheTiger 19:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your thoughts. I guess you are saying that a dab page should disambiguate all likely wikipedia uses of a phrase as opposed to all likely uses by wikipedians of a phrase. Is that it in a nutshell.
Also, you imply that there are high standards for portraits. It annoys me that such common bands can get albums pages that aren't deleted and you would tell me that an Andy Warhol of a notable wikipedia article subject from a family of likenamed notable wikipedia article subjects does not in your opinion belong on a wikipedia dab unless an article is forthcoming and that such an article is likely to be unnotable. What are the standards for paintings? Would a Warhol Campbell's Soup Can or Warhol Marilyn Monroe get deleted? Do you know of this having happened? What about similarly significant work? Do you think there is enough info on the following page to generate a lasting wikipedia page Portrait of Seymour Knox TonyTheTiger 22:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Great explanation of the purpose of a dab page. It will make me rethink most of my dab pages. Your inference that Portrait of Seymour Knox should get equal treatment with the "Campbell's Soup" and "Marilyn Monroe" did not mean I felt it was equally notable, just worthy of similary notability consideration. If neither of these has an article or even article section, neither should "Seymour Knox". However, if neither of these is absent because it has been unsuccessful in an AfD discussion, then I am not sure what conclusion to draw. I think that as you mentioned
In your response you mentioned G-tests on
Warhol "Campbell's Soup"
762 of about 85,800 (which means 85K pages, with 76% of the most significant thousand differing significantly rather than appearing to be clones of another of the first thousand)
Warhol "Marilyn Monroe"
803 of about 538,000
Warhol "Seymour Knox"
17 of about 21 (which means that there are about 21 pages, 17 of them looking unique)
I am not sure I understand precisely although I get the picture. Please elaborate.
Also, you mentioned They are also useful (without compromising that fundamental mission) where XYZ is likely to be casually used as a title for article 3, even tho there is a better title for article 3; in that case we are likely to include the title of article 3 on the Dab page, often in a "See also" section. That is the case here as I explained. The question is merely of the notability of article 3 in this case.TonyTheTiger 17:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
<<But am i clear in having illustrated that some works by the same artist are much more significant than the one we are disussing. (Trivia: your guy's portrait is not the bottom end of the scale; Warhol, presumably before his breakthru, painted a signed LP-record jacket for a recording of Swan Lake; i'll bet that's not verifiable on the Web.)--Jerzy•t 19:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)>> I have always been of the opinion that "Seymour Knox" is less notable than "[[:Image:Warhol-Marilyns.jpg]" (probably because he is slightly less sexy:-) and "Image:Warhol-Campbell Soup-1-screenprint-1968.jpg". This is not a point of contention. This is no different from the fact that Seymour H. Knox I is less notable than his cousin Frank Winfield Woolworth. If you told me that people have posted articles on Woolworth that have not survived AfDs, I would not have tried to post Knox I. However, if you said no one has posted a Woolworth article and I don't think it is a topic worth posting I would contend otherwise and try to post Knox or both. I really want to understand why something that is artistically notable like "Marilyn Monroe", is not wikipedia notable in terms of being likely to survive an AfD.
The bottom line is this. I believe I could post a Marilyn Monroe that would survive an AfD. Less sure about "Seymour Knox".
<<_ _ In your response you mentioned G-tests on
Warhol "Campbell's Soup" 762 of about 85,800 (which means 85K pages, with 76% of the most significant thousand differing significantly rather than appearing to be clones of another of the first thousand) Warhol "Marilyn Monroe" 803 of about 538,000 Warhol "Seymour Knox" 17 of about 21 (which means that there are about 21 pages, 17 of them looking unique)>>
I have a masters in Statistics and still do not understand what you are saying. I do understand you are teaching me something someone who has a masters in statistic should know about search engine technology today. When I put Warhol "Campbell's Soup" in Google, I get: 1 - 10 of about 86,300 for Warhol "Campbell's Soup". (0.24 seconds)
The bottom line is this: Where does the 762 and the 76% come from?—Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 23:25-:27, 19 October 2006
I will probably attempt a Campbell's Soup can article next week. I will let you know when I do. I will then possibly follow with Knox and possibly Monroe if it survives. TonyTheTiger 18:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I have decided that I will likely just do Warhol Campbell's Soup and Portrait of Seymour Knox. I will not likely get to Marilyn. I have seen Campbell's Soup Cans at both the Museum of Modern Art in NYC and the Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago in the last 6 months. Thus, I find them more relevant. I don't actually recall if Marilyn was at the MCA or the MOMA. You can see I have marked off my Warhol turf. I just clicked through your redlink on my discussion page to create the page. I am considering retitling it "Warhol Campbell's Soup Cans", however. I warn you. I am no art scholar. I will do what I can. I realize Marilyn could use some attention. I guess I liken it to the Coors family. I think their whole family should be cleaned up. I prefer Bud to Coors. I almost always drink Bud or Bud Light if available. Thus, I chose to do the work to clear up the Anheusers and Busches, but not the Coorses. I may get back to the Coorses if I can find the info and I might get back to Marilyn. I guess like all good wikipedians I will just have to prioritize my work. TonyTheTiger 21:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I am off and running on Campbell's Soup Cans. I will let you know when I have exhausted my own limitations. TonyTheTiger 16:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't say I am done, but the page is probably 80 or 90% finished. I would like to find an image from the 3rd phase of his Soup Can work to represent this series more completely. Let me know if there is anything specific you think I should address. Also, give me your assessment of its viability as a stand alone article. TonyTheTiger 21:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Great response. If that is a common technique for wikipedians, googlers or internet users you should cut and paste that response into an article or at least a section of an article. You should then disambiguate it from the G test article. TonyTheTiger 18:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I recently redirected your recent creation List of people by name: name Rob to List of people by name: Rob. But looking at your contributions you seem to be very active on lists of people, so I don't quite understand what it is you're trying to do. Also I don't understand why you would delete info such as "backstroke swimmer" to have only "swimmer" or why you would have Roseanne Barr as an actor rather than an actress. Thanks. Pascal.Tesson 05:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Jerzy, please read my reply: talk:Jose Rizal#NPoV.
KaElin 15:07, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the download link, copy of my post to Talk:G Linnaeus Banks re: download of The Manchester Man
Coppied from here everything is derived from that and thus falls ander the derivativew works section of copyright law. You may want to review this WP:AN#Plagiarism_Detector_Bot.
Geni 17:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Looking at yr recent List of people by name: Hen work, i continue to like what you've been doing with ((LoPbN Entry)); not sure if the optional piping is new or if i just was too cursory in looking before. You might like to look at ((List of people sequence Oh)) (What lks there); i can imagine integrating the ((Inv-prfx)) functionality into ((LoPbN Entry)), tho it's low-priority for me compared to LoPbN tasks like getting rid of the few remaining non-bio lks, completing the addition of the "Access to rest of list" sections, maintaining stylistic consistency, and perhaps aggressively participating in adding entries from Category:Living people (and probably fixing unpiped names first). Hope you'll not be too discouraged by my distraction from your good work/ideas.
--Jerzy•t 04:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your advice. I will try to fix the article cats piping. Regards, --Carioca 22:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
You changed "actress" to "actor" (in the case of an actress).
Thanks.
Orbicle 08:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey, first of all, thanks for responding back! :) I know we'll make mistakes and it's totally understandable. I replaced the (prod) with (db).
There's another article (Kristina Abernathy) in which I intinally slapped a (db) tag, due to the same reasons as Dave Schwartz and Warren Madden, but it was challenged, so, I replaced it with a (afd). If you don't mind, at your conveinece, take a closer look at the article and vote on the linked section I just posted above. In my opinion, non-notable people doesn't warrant a standalone article. I doubt it that she is known ouside the circles of TWC.
Much Thanks Again! :)
--Moreau36 23:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the category suggestion (Modern Paintings). I found similar categories to what I believe you intended: Paintings Category:20th century paintings TonyTheTiger 18:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I was a little unsure on the categorization. Although the original 32 canvases are 1962 paintings some of the other Campbell's Soup Can paintings are from the 1960s. I guess you suggest to categorize based on only the original 32 and then only at the most detailed subcategory. Is this correct? TonyTheTiger 19:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for catching my mindless overlooking of name piping in the cats for Col Joye. Tvoz 18:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC) Whoa, first comment on your user page, I better get that heading capitalization right.....Tvoz 18:32, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I think I may faint- have I actually encountered someone on Wikipedia with a sense of humor?? What a relief! So many are either overly earnest, too in love with their own (mediocre) words, or about as mature as a two year old, no offense intended to little children. Tvoz 03:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
(By the way, that last was my way of saying 'thanks for your note'...) About trolling for piping errors and the like, I actually don't mind doing that kind of work either, for similar reasons to what you mentioned on your user page about wandering into biogs - do you have any tips on how to spot problems or is it just a matter of opening the edit page article by article and looking ofr missing ones? Tvoz 16:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! OK, deep breaths, I will go back a little later and read that again. If you happen to have the shortcut handy, yeah, that might help!Tvoz 17:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! Actually, I wasn't doing too badly following your instructions, but I ended up reading some interesting stuff about how to alphabetize Dave Brubeck in a record store - anyway, I'll read the link you just sent me. (Btw, pop-up tools sounds neat - I haven't come across that one yet. Will look - anything to make it faster.) Tvoz 18:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh God, I think I understood that. Now I'm getting worried.....Tvoz 18:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, and thank you for welcoming me to Wikipedia. Allow me to summarize your comments to make sure that I have it all clear, and then I will get on to my response.
Eritrean people articles should be alphabetized according to last name, first name convetion.
This is a very interesting point. To be honest I did not even look up other cutlures when I went about fixing the Eritrean names throughout all the pages. I find that the Eritrean naming convention is in fact quite similar also to the Arabic name convention and so I looked up famous people whose name would qualify under that. They are all categorized in a manner you are suggesting.
However, as another user once told me, Wikipedia should be "descriptive" not "prescriptive". This brings a sort of challenge to mind though because amongst Eritreans who speak English and are educated abroad, when it comes to our names we still file and organize by our first name and progress through the system. For instance, when I go to the Eritrean Consulate in California and they are to look up my file they ask for my name (Merhawie). When they find that under the M's the move on to my father's name if there would be more than one file. The naming convention is very similar to the Pakistani naming convention, except in marriage the woman does not change her name.
However, I imagine the people in the American Embassy would not. So then we have to ask whose fashion of organization should take precedent. I cannot answer this question although I am sure it has certainly been discussed before. If you could let pass on such a discussion to me I would appreciate it. Otherwise I think we should consider starting a discussion at the Village Pump, because this issue really goes to the international core of wikipedia.
Thank you for reminding me and bringing my attention to this important subject. -- Merhawie 23:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello. Am very sorry for the apparently excessive speedy tagging, and will cease immediately. I feel it is probably the result of my current emotional problems. Once again, I am very sorry, and thank you for alerting me. Until now I would consider myself a positive contributor, and wish to remain so.
Thank you for your much-needed advice. Makron1n 04:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
It looks like all these pages are now unused, replaced by categories. Can these be deleted? —Centrx→talk • 03:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate your attention to the Petchara Chaowarat categories. I would like to be able to point you towards a better explanation as to why Thai names need no sorting tweak, but I can't. It's just the way it is, I've been told by other editors of Thai articles. And, living in the country, I've come to accept that that's the way it is. Even in record stores, albums by all artists are grouped according to the artist's first names. I leave this note here, just to say I'm willing to try and help answer any questions. -Wisekwai 11:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
You people really get mad when others mess around with Wiki?
Seriously, how often does somebody make a vanity page? Or adds a little BS here and there for fun? Probably every Friggin' minute of every day! Doesn't it ever just drive you crazy! So then why worry? Why threaten? Don't you ever just ignore it?
I mean seriously!
You people are on the ball, EVERYTIME!
I can't have something up for more than ten minutes.
Just let it slide. We will all be happier! Geesh!
Hello Jerzy Thanks for cleaning up the Turner section of the List of People by Name. I took a stab at it earlier when I updated the disambiguation page for Jack Turner. It's so nice to see people like you who help to standardize things and make them even more like an encyclopedia. :-) I did have a few questions as to why you made certain changes. I'm not arguing, but attempting to understand for future edits.
Again. I'm not arguing, and with the exception of adding back Jack Turner (writer)'s hosting work, I totally agree with your edits. I'm just trying to learn and become a better Wikipedian. Have a great day! --Willscrlt 00:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
There were only 2 edits: the first was a complete copyvio, the second was tagging the copyvio. So I don't think there's much point in undeleting that. The text was taken from www.wearesmarter.com. Good job creating a new article! --Fang Aili talk 14:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
This seemed like a pretty obvious g7 in that the article was created, and all revisions had been made, by the same editor, whose last edit was to put a prod tag on the article. Are you saying that in all g7 situations (99% of which are like the above, where the author is the only editor), I need to type out why the deletion is a g7? That seems like fairly pointless formality. NawlinWiki 13:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Please stop harrasing people who make valuable additions to Wikipedia. Without the freedoms of a user-friendly site, Wikipedia will lose the grip it has on the internet at this time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.171.233.27 (talk • contribs) 04:39, 2 December 2006.
Hi. I have commented on your recent editing on the talk page of Don Carlos. Perhaps you would like to have a look? The original introduction was not ideal, as you know, but I don't think your solution is going to work, especially as it would create an awkward precedent. Many operas exist (and are performed) in multiple versions, treating them all as separate works would not be helpful. - Kleinzach 18:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry I have no experience with that particular set of articles. I was just confused as to why a relatively obscure musician and a bunch of fictional people were singled out for inclusion on the main Hamilton page when there are plenty of more notable people. Your reasons for not including fictional people are fine but I would contend that the musician is not notable enough to display on the main page. And perhaps change the wording of the link to reflect that the article doesn't only include people with Hamilton as a surname? Axem Titanium 20:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I've added the "((prod))" template to the article Philanthropist, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Philanthropist. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. — Sebastian (talk) 03:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about that mess. I realised my mistake and reverted it, but from the look of Wikipedia:How to fix cut and paste moves, that may have made things worse. Thanks for fixing it, I'll be more careful in future. Thanks, — User:JohnAldis 17:44, 10 December 2006 (GMT)
Tomorrow, I will be self nominating for admin. I am notifying you that our lengthy debates about artwork are a major part of my controversies essay. You may recall that these inspired me to produce Campbell's Soup Cans and Haystacks (Monet). If you look at me at [4] you can see these are two of the most important articles during my editorship. Don't be alarmed that you are named specifically.
--TonyTheTiger 16:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
<<On the topic of ((hndis)) you said: For a while, i diligently replaced the tag by ((Disambig)) when i encountered it, and i continue to question the idea of treating human-name and ship Dabs as special cases. >>
--TonyTheTiger 19:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I've added the "((prod))" template to the article Robert Larson, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Robert Larson. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. TheRingess 07:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I generally don't have great consideration for the edit summaries I write upon deleting references/links to articles that have been deleted, mostly because I do it too often and I'm lazy to add a fully explanatory justification for my removal. :-/ Usually it's just WP:COI that was spread along with the (deleted) article, so I don't think many would really bother if those non-notable mentions were simply removed. Regards,--Húsönd 03:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi - I've just speedily deleted Template:Stub-group - it was identical to a previous template which was deleted after it proved to be an absolute nightmare for stub sorting about a year and a half ago. Please use the standard stub templates rather than creating one of these things again! Also, in future, if you wish to create any stub templates of any kind, it'd be good if you proposed them in the standard way at WP:WSS/P. Grutness...wha? 09:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I noticed you removed my move of Gary Roberts from Gary Roberts (ice hockey player) to Gary Roberts (hockey). Having looked at the article again, he definitely plays ice hockey, not hockey, so surely my move was correct...? robwingfield «T•C» 11:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about that! It was a good faith mistake. Thank you for catching my mistake. I de-orphan article and i usually hone in on key words (mostly words that are the names of other articles) In this case, i just misintepreted the relation between the two. The word was in the article, and i understand it was used in a dergotaory sense but I had not seen it used before in that context. Hence, why I linked it. Again, I appreciate you catching that! Thanks. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 21:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
100px | The Editor's Barnstar | |
I, Chrislk02, award you this editors barnstar for reverting my mistake to the article on Mephistopheles, and how cool and calm you were in handling the reversion! You are an asswet to wikipedia -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 14:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC) |
I usually like to put awards on the main page but you did not have an award section so i put it here. Pelase feel free to move it wherever you desire or even delete it if you feel so inclined. Thanks again! -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 14:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I have no problem with you handling all of the process. I am not an admin. I think that you will be fair in how ever you handle it.
--Kevin Murray 01:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I just wanted to alert you to this. Happy new year! <KF> 00:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Jerzy, just wanted to wish you and your loved ones a Happy New Year. Tony Jr. hasn't been doing much lately in Wiki because he's colaborating with articles in "Ringside" magazine, which at times are featured in HBO Boxing. It takes a lot of his time. As for myself, I write for various cultural magazines, but I always keep an eye on my stuff in Wiki. I took a look at the issue and expressed my opinion. It was nice hearing from you. Take care. Tony the Marine 06:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Are you aware that it can be considered disruptive to consensus to "lobby" for keep in an AFD, as you did recently for the second nomination here? You may have made your task harder going forward, if it looks like this has tainted the natural balance of the discussion. -- nae'blis 20:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
OK I'll bite, having had my first/only wikipedia edit remodified by you on the LoPbN Hamilton page.
It is arguable that William Rowan Hamilton be called British since, during his lifetime, Ireland was part of the British empire. However what is to be gained by saying that? Britain at one time held dominion over 2/3 of the globe. If we say that all those people were 'British' we arrive at some stunning incongruities: Ghandi as British; Ben Franklin as British. Just because no Irish passports were issued doesn't mean that Ireland didn't have a national identity. Italy didn't exist until the 19th century, but Leonardo Da Vinci is listed as Italian.
What is to be lost, however, is precision, which I would think would be one of the primary goals of a wikipedia article. I'm not going to remodify the page since you clearly are quite an active member of the community however I do invite you to actually click on the links of the people named on the page. Click on the main William Rowan Hamilton page and you'll see him identified properly as Irish.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.23.27.114 (talk) 13:32, 3 January 2007
Greetings. I've added a little more to Talk:List of people by name: Sti and I would be grateful for your thoughts. Thanks. Greenshed 01:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Uh, what was that? - I have no idea like this took place, whether it was a fault of me or a bug by the AWB, but since it seems to have happened only one times, I suspect the first case. However I will watch the AWB in any case if I use it again. Thanks for the correction and the notice. By the way I was very surprised as I read the German word 'schmutz'. I did not know that it has found its way into the English language. Greetings ~~ Phoe talk 11:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC) ~~
I have a conference in town this week and have to reformat my HD next week. I have been quite limited on WP time of late with the holidays and all and will be so for the next week. If it O.K. if I don't get to the merger for a week or so I will do it. It is only tangentially of interest to me, but I would undertake the task as a learning experience in much the same way I produced the 3 art articles. BTW, I just put Campbell's Soup Cans up for FA after going through PR and GA review. TonyTheTiger 14:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Jerzy- While you clearly have more experience as a wikipedia user than I, I feel it is unfair of you to propose to delete my work based on an assumption on your part that happens to be incorrect. Steven Leyba is a legitimate painter, performance artist, published author, and musician. He is well known in many circles, and for you to say that creating an article about him and his work is akin to "self promotion" is completely unfair and also completely untrue, as I am not him. Perhaps Leyba doesn't interest you on a personal level, but surely you must know that others have differing opinions and tastes than you. Now, on the other hand, if my formatting is incorrect (i.e. not citing sources accurately, etc) then that is another matter. I admit that I am still learning and fine tuning my wikipedia skills, and I am more than willing to rectify any technical mistakes. But to write him off entirely as unworthy of an article, etc, seems unjustified. Furthermore, your harsh manner is confusing and seems wholly unnecessary, in my opinion. rebecca 07:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I would have voted to keep unmerged in the John Frederick Brill debate. I think the artist is fairly interesting and mildly notable for his combined military service and artwork. TonyTheTiger 21:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy - I've been working on the various Awards categories for a while now, and have proposed to merge Category:Recipients of formal honors, Category:Prize winners, and Category:Award winners together. It looks like you're one of the very early editors of the Category:Recipients of formal honors, so if you have some thoughts about the proposal please join in. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 9#Category:Prize winners and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 9#Category:Prizes . Best, lquilter 04:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the information you provided on El Malcriado. You are correct, it was the newspaper of the United Farm Workers. Would you please tell me where you came across the info? It will be helpful in writing the article. Thanks, --Rockero 05:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The way you've laid out your argument makes it very hard to follow. It would be a lot easier if it was just in plain prose. Tyrenius 18:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The books that I employ contain only one Wilhelm Schmid who was born in 1859. As I wrote his bio, I may have hastily placed a link to an improper page. I tried to straighten out the links by erasing them. Currently, there is a very popular philosopher with many connections to Internet URLs. His name is Wilhelm Schmid, too; he was born in 1953. He has no bio in Wikipedia. There is also a Wilhelm Schmid, born in 1892, who was an artist. He has no bio in Wikipedia. SA Men lists a Wilhelm Schmid (a soldier in WWI), but information on him is unavailable. One or two others may have existed in the 17th and 18th centuries. I was surprised to find so many of them. GhostofSuperslum 21:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Well at last, I get a message from the one and only Jerzy, the chief custodian of the LoPbN, a lonely and honorable profession! Thanks for the helpful comments regarding months and making distinctions between similar list entries. Yes, you get the gist of my "project", just skimming down the list of all articles and adding all entries that look like people. For a reason, I have a lot of free time on my hands now, and figured this is a good way to spend (a portion of) it, as it needs doing. I sure don't expect to get most of it completed any time soon, but as this seems to be a task that does not extend itself well to automation, it falls to someone with the will and general lack-of-life (humble moi) to take charge and populate the list. Thanks again for the help, and for your hard work! --Slyguy 01:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
One method of random sampling might be:
1. Clicking on "Random article"
2. Seeing if the article that comes up is a bio
3. If it is, use it as a data point
4. Do this until 1000 (or however many) bios are sampled.
Obviously, this is not efficient and labor-intensive.
I think that, after reading your thoughts, and seeing others add entries without tagging them as minor, that I will drop marking my adds as minor. After all, as you wrote, every entry adds substance. I doubt anyone will complain.
--Slyguy 14:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
With regards to the many, many names I have been adding to the List of people by name: Morr, are we only supposed to add names if they have a bio article? In the case of those three you removed, I only added them in the first place because the names exist as redirects to those articles. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other, but it would be useful to know. Incidently, I spotted a couple of red links on that very page - I take it they're a definite no no? PC78 16:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
If got no idea what you're talking about, but "Wikify" refers to changing the appearance of an article to reflect Wikipedia's Manual of Style. It's uncommon to see it in edit summaries, but seeing as how edit summaries aren't requires in the first place, I highly doubt that anyone cares. --Captain Wikify Argh! 21:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Jerzy said: Please take another look at your deletion of Brad Listermann, Bollywood newcomer producer & returned Californian.
The prime reason I followed through with the Speedy request is that - on top of the speedy deletion tagging it received - it looked like an autobiography, and it's very difficult to keep the Speedy deletion patrollers away from something like that.
If you want to restore the article to its previous state, you have my okay to do so, and if you feel it necessary to take it to AfD following this restoration, I'll leave that up to you. Bobo. 06:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I know it sounds really corny to say this, but it's awesome to finally get in touch with the first person whose userpage I ever visited on Wikipedia, all that time ago in 2004 when I was so scared of taking the plunge and joining. Your essay about non-native speakers, despite being one myself, got me interested in the real open-ness, visibility, and collaborative nature of this project. Thank you. Bobo. 06:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed analysis of the progress I've been making on the LoPbN. To be honest, though, (as you know) I am (for now) skipping over some tracts of names that are non-Western and difficult to alphabetize. To give a ballpark figure, I've probably included 75 per cent of names that I've come across so far, so you can factor that into your figures. Eventually, I may go back over the ones I've skipped, figure them out (for example, by seeing how they are alphabetized in categories they are in), and then include them. (I am keeping track of names I've skipped -- e.g. "Abu"s, "Aga"s.) I believe it makes little difference at this point, since with the sheer volume of people to add, 75 per cent of a zillion is still a zillion. :-)
Thanks for the info on the transclusion reduction. I'll tell you if I notice any difference in response time. --Slyguy 15:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Are you kidding, how would I remember that? To be more serious, no, I'm not sure. I would assume very strongly that the two George Peels are one and the same. As far as I know, the names and dates given by me are from the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Sadly, my copy of the Norton is 100 miles away at the moment, so I can't look it up. john k 05:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Hrm, that's very odd. The 'bot should have skipped that, since it's now checking for "live" category membership, as well as "category:" in the wikitext; and it shouldn't even have been looking at it in the first place, since the list it was working from was all (supposedly) uncategorised in the last db dump. Mystery upon mystery. I'll certainly see what I can do to prevent this, but currently I'm baffled as to why it'd do it in the first place. What was the other such article you noticed? Alai 10:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm curious about this edit you made, with the edit summary "fix broken link." I tested the link before I saved and it worked, and I tested it again via the diff page after you made your change. Why do you say it's broken? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Matchups (talk • contribs) 02:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC).
How bad an idea would it be to run PockBot against Category:People, in light of
OK, thanks; better to know than to continue mulling over whether you're likely to have implemented outputting the difference between two Cats' descendant sets. (I'm now lighthearted enuf abt it to think of it as Undead Mode, since it could be used to find descendants of Category:People who are descendants of neither Category:Living people nor Category:Dead people -- something more useful than it sounds like it should be.) Thanks for your attention, and keep up the good work.
--Jerzy•t 07:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Several matters that may be worth covering on or lk'g to from User:PockBot:
--Jerzy•t 23:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey uh, just wanted to say thanks for picking up my typo and that you are, by a large margin, the best a blowing things out of proportion that I've ever seen. Thanks again Electriceel 13:06, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Each and every time that I place a name into the lists, it means that I am looking at a biography of the person in New International Encyclopedia. I use the lists to fulfill the "What links here" part in the toolbox. I am trying to grasp how to place a name into the lists so that it fits without generating any objections. The lists of people by name is a sideline activity that I perform whenever I'm otherwise unoccupied. My main use of the lists is the creation of Red Links which will conveniently serve to satisfy the "What links here" requirement after I have started a biography of a person. I noticed that years are not written (0000-00) but are written (0000-0000) using four numbers for the YOB and four numbers for the YOD. Henceforth, I will follow that model. Also, I will keep the descriptives short. No more of the "Chancellor of the German Empire 1894-1900" types. By the way, "Politician" is a word that is commonest in the United States. Other nations may not use the word. Please leave my Red Links in place because I may (or may not) create an article that makes use of them (sooner or later). I don't know who removed my Red Links from the name Jones but I was frustrated after having typed them in only to find out that they had been obliterated. My Red Links were destroyed! GhostofSuperslum 01:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your message on my talk page, which I found after I had finished my reply at Talk:Matt Beaumont. All the best, <KF> 00:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi there, you left a message on my user talk page saying that I made wreckless edits to wikipedia articles (List of people by name and List of people by name: Sd) however I did not make any changes to the first article mentioned above, if you do not believe me then please sheck the page history). I admit that I made some changes to the List of people by name: Sd and I admit that I made a mistake there by changing it'sd title so it sdaid disambiguation at the end and I spelt it wrong first time so I had to correct it and at the time I believed that all dismabig pages need to have disambiguation in brackets after the title so I can undersatannd your reversion of that but you also said on my talk page that this was one of my first page moves, well clearly this is not the case per the user move log under my user name This was also not my first edit, I have made of 6,000 contributions to wikipedia and have been here for six months. Aswell as this I do not edit under any other user accounts or anyonymous IP addresses as you mentioned on my user page; Tellyaddict is my only user and edting name on wikipedia. Finally you seem to be in violation of WP:AGF (to make this worse you seemed to think I was new here therefore in strong violation of this). You also warned me saying I will be blocked without further warning if I vandalise anything else which I haven't anyway you have then skipped to a Template:test4 when you are meant to start at a Template:Test1 and move up appropriately depending on the severity, even though I didn't vandalise anything and my edits were in good faith, I am quite annoyed at this matter, sorry for the long message but I needed to sort this out. If you've anyother comments please leave them on my talk page.TellyaddictEditor review! 12:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
In reference to your edit in the List of People by Name for this person, he is a computer forensics person and not a computer scientist or a programmer. Perhaps you are not familiar with what computer forensics is. --Kimon 12:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your detailed note that you left for me. I appreciate your suggestions and tutoring. My learning curve is steep ... this is the first effort for me in Wikipedia ... and I want to get it right. I left a posting on the "Talk:Wong and McKeen" page responding to another editor, and outlining my intention to create a proper biography for Wong, for McKeen, for the "Wong and McKeen" partnering (they are a team in the Rogers and Hammerstein tradition) and ultimately to create a page for "The Haven Institute" which they co-founded. I understand the necessity for rigour in such matters .... I will bring myself up to speed on the proper approaches to documenting the articles. Meanwhile, thanks for the human touch and the information. William Meyer 21:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you pruned that article rather substantially. I've put an afd, if you'd like to weigh in with an opinion. Joyous! | Talk 23:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome. I noticed there was definitely something amiss when the names suddenly jumped from Harvard, John to Harvey, Brian, under the Harva heading. Now, usually when there are comment brackets around a name (or, more rarely, a group of them) it's meant as a signal that the name shouldn't be added to the list, but that obviously wasn't the case here, so I took the liberty and closed the comment.
Thanks for the census list of common names -- I've actually looked at it before, a long time ago, but it's always interesting to look at. I never thought it would take so long to go from the Alberts to the Alexes, but there were a lot of Spanish and Slavic variations of Alexander (Alejandro/a, Aleksander, Aleksei, etc.) between them. You've probably noticed I'm using the LoPbN template now -- I haven't noticed a significant improvement in the speed of entry from doing that, but it should probably be done that way, as it makes the data more "structured".
--Slyguy 19:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Please see if you can fix "Andrade e Silva, Jose Bonifacio d'" which has two pages (one is a stub). The entry needs to be worked over by someone who is capable of repairing it. I cannot fix it. He is either "Jose Bonifacio" or "Bonifacio Jose" d' (Astrada or Astrade) e Silva. A redirect exists. GhostofSuperslum 03:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree about martial artist vs. martial arts practitioner, now that I've read your reasoning. It's actually one of the many things I've wondered about how to phrase -- I've actually listed people as m.a.p.s in the past, but then I switched to m.a. because it was more "compact", but since you've pointed out the ambiguous nature of the term (which I never really considered in depth), m.a.p. appears preferable even though it's a bit of a mouthful.
Feel free to take your comments on my talk page and incorporate them into the Talk:LoPbN pages any time -- I certainly don't "own" them and they're useful for the general public.
Hey, I have a question. When using the LoPbN template, I can't seem to make it work well with article titles that include info after the family name -- i.e. John Smith, Jr., or Mike Jones (architect) and Mike Jones (politician) -- because if I entered it in that way ({LoPbN Entry|Mike|Jones (politician)|(etc.)}), it would show up as "Jones (politician), Mike" (etc.) on the list, and we obviously don't want the (politician) to show up in that spot. Is there any way around this? Or should I just enter it the old-fashioned way, as I have been doing for such cases?
Thanks for the extensive commentary -- what I like about your remarks is that they give lots and lots of background and you present such a good, solid case for why things should be put in the way you think they should. Are you a rhetorician, by any chance? :-) As I write on my page, I appreciate hearing constructive suggestions.
--Slyguy 15:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
See my comment. Should Elite be reinstated now? Tyrenius 04:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Jerzy, I'm Lini, a member of the Biography Wikiproject. First I'd like to ask, were you aware that "Adding one's (biography) article to LoPbN" is included in Step 9 of WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article ?? :) So, I have begun checking some of the biography articles that I am interested in, for a link from the LoPbN.
As you probably noticed, I recently edited List of people by name: Sf-Sg, adding the description "Empress of the Holy Roman Empire" to the entry for Sforza, Bianca Maria. I see that you have since then changed the description to "Italian-born royal-family member". After carefully reading What Belongs in an Entry besides the Link?, I would deduce that your rationale is that "royal-family member" is more general than "Empress" (as in the politician vs. president example), and that "Italian-born royal-family member" better fits the standard of <nationality> <occupation>. So, that is probably enough to go on to better inform any future contributions that I might make to the LoPbN. However, I would ask you to clarify your edit summary notation "lo-res trmnlgy".
Also, I am interested in adding the members of the Este noble family to the LoPbN, for example Ippolito d'Este. I've checked, and believe that they are not yet listed either under D Prefix or under Est-Esz. In your opinion, on which of those two pages should they be, or on both?
A final comment; having discovered the LoPbN, I am impressed with the work that has been involved, and, being an organizer, and a "list/index type of person" :) myself, I like it very much.
Cheers, Lini 01:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In the process of checking Est-Esz for the presence of members of the Este family, I noticed the absence of author Eleanor Estes, so I decided to add her name. On the Estes dab page, I found several people with surname Estes. I've added them all to the Est-Esz section. There are now 32 names in that section. Would I normally need to alert people interested in the LoPbN that a section may now be too long? Do I take steps myself to split it? In Talk:List of people by name/Intra-page structure, I see some mention of 25 items as a threshold for splitting, for both lists of people and TOC entries, but did not see a confirmation that this number, was definitely decided upon, or that the Experimental Bullet-List Heirarchy was definitely going to be adopted. Also, where do things now stand as far as the "Great Leap Forward"? Thanks, Lini 03:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I've completed the addition of the d'Este names and my attempt of the split of the Est-Esz section on the LoPbN Es page. As a learning experience, if you have time to look it over, I'd appreciate your feedback either as comments on a talk page, or directly, as edits of the Es page (with edit summary remarks). Note: I've discovered (by Search) at least 6 more d'Estaing articles which could be added to the Esta section - so that section need not remain so small (currently only 3 people). I will plan on adding the d'Estaings to the page, but that is a task for another day. Cheers, Lini 05:23, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the encouragement to list Alexander as both "Heek, Alexander Hegius von" and "Hegius, Alexander" in the same section. I do agree that this is in line with the intended usage of the LoPbN.
Along the subject of duplicate entries in general, in the process of working on comprehensively adding LoPbN entries for Jacques Lefèvre d'Étaples (with the multiple variations of his name, both French and Latin), I discovered a duplicate article (Jacobus Faber), which had already been listed under Faber. ( I posted "merge-to" and "merge-from" tags, intending to perform the merge after leaving it open to discussion for 7+ days; however, actually another editor has already taken care of it :) Anyway, I share this anecdote because for me it illustrates one aspect of the value of the LoPbN! Cheers, Lini 11:59, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd appreciate your opinion. I started to clean up Dale (a dab page), (see the Feb 26 version to see what a mess it was), ended up creating Dale (origin), Dale (part of place name), and unloaded a bunch of stuff to these backwater pages. There are a zillion Dale given names, so I put a pointer to the Special:Allpages. I put a link to LoPbN for the surnames, after augmenting them from 9 to 30. I know, big mistake; later on, I read the archive 26 of the talk page for MOSDAB (August 2006), and I see how shaky a LoPbN pointer is. To fix this, I plan to do Dale (surname) or put the section back in the main Dale dab page. While I was on the LoPbN, I added a bunch of Daleys and then boosted the Dalys fom 4 to 60. I tried to read up on resubdividing and it is over my head, at least on first reading. Did I mess up by adding about a hundred names to it? I wrote some code in an external editor so I could format the LoPbN entries from an excerpt of each article's opening sentence. Should I stay out of these LoPbN, or learn how to resubdivide? Any other thoughts or suggestions? I read the Talk pages on LoPbN, impressive amount of thought behind this, but couldn't find any succinct guidelines on what to do and what not to do. Chris the speller 04:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
_ _ OK, yr talking abt Dale, Dale (origin), Dale (part of place name) but not Dale (name), Dale (given name), nor List of people named Dale, AFAI can see. And you created Dale (surname) subsequently. You also mention MoS:DP NTBCW, a funky name for WP:MOSDAB. And i see that your Special:Allpages lk has something in the half-thousand ballpark of relevant articles and Rdrs. I didn't track down that WP:MOSDAB talk archive.
_ _ Reply is on your talk.
--Jerzy•t 20:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought I should tell you Campbell's Soup Cans is up for FAC2.TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 23:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
You might like to know that I slapped together a program, using an external editor, for checking the alphabetical order. It can check even the largest LoPbN page in a second, once I copy and paste the page source into the editor. It handles LoPbN Entry template lines, too. If you have any large pages that have seen a lot of activity, and you're suspicious, no sense getting eyestrain, just drop a request on my talk page. I've already found and fixed a handful. Chris the speller 04:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I finished sequence-checking the whole thing, having made corrections to the alphabetization, or made some other improvement on about 430 pages. If my efforts had instead been applied to cleaning out stables, the Hercules article would have a "See also: Chris the speller". I might take a break from LoPbN for a while, but will gladly take requests for pages with high activity. Thanks for all the education I picked up on the way. The most notable person that I added was Cicero (yes, the Roman). That I could add 5 dozen people named Daly shows how much more work is left. Keep up the good work! Chris the speller 01:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about making more work for you. I will do more research and better describe that research, before I remove people in the future. Clerks. 13:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I've thought of a question relating to LoPbN that, as far as I can tell, isn't addressed in either the talk pages of the list or your talk pages. I thought it would be a good idea to raise the issue on your talk page instead of the list's talk page, to avoid cluttering up the latter before any final decision is reached. What should the policy be regarding American vs. Commonwealth English spelling variations? What specifically brought this issue to mind was my adding people to the list who were labor leaders, and referring to them as such in the descriptions. A couple of recent examples I added are Alexander Bustamante and Alexander Barkan. (First of all, I hope you think that "labor leader" is an appropriate description.) Should it be spelt labor, or labour? This section of the MOS gives a few guidelines in this regard, but for our purposes, some of those guidelines are in conflict. The MOS suggests the same spelling system should be used throughout, but then again, since there are "strong ties to a specific region" (for example, Bustamante was Jamaican, which is Commonwealth, whereas Barkan was American), we should "use that dialect" (labour for Bustamante, labor for Barkan). And I'm sure that similar situations will arise with other terms besides labor, though I can't really think of any good examples at the moment. As an American living in Canada, I often feel conflicted about which variant to choose when writing -- usually it depends on who I think will read what I write. Now, I've done Google searches on the LoPbN combined with labor/labour and found that most descriptions use the American spelling, but there are a couple uses of the Commonwealth spelling. It seems that, so far, people have just been allowed to use whichever spelling they want, no big deal. Do you think this is important enough to make a guideline for, or just keep things the way they are?
--Slyguy 17:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
The following was originally placed out of order at #Forrest Gerst. I have made it, hopefully, more accessible overall by moving it here (and placing a lk to here from where it used to be).
--Jerzy•t 03:46, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
You recently deleted a link referring to my name and possible biography.[5]I was slightly offended in the verbage you used in calling my editing attempts an "experiment" and that my "test worked". I would like to inform you that I am very serious in my attempts to create a biograpy concerning myself and should you delete anything in the future that you are more succinct with me and simply inform me that my addition has been deleted. Thank you.--Fg1234567892000 15:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
March 28, 2007--folowup Your accusations of "vandallism" are compleatly unfounded. I am in no way intending to undermine Wikipedia's validity and find that your claims are compleatly invalid. I can see your point of view if say, maybe I deleted all of an article, but come now--vandallism? You need to reconsider my notability and worthiness--I of all people need to be on Wikipeda. I don't ask for fame or fortune. I don't ask for anything I am involved in to receive any promotion or attention. All I ask for is to be a part of the website.--Fg1234567892000 14:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
April 2--
Although you may continue to assert your opinion of my work as "vandallism", in my opinion, it is not. However, this is only an opinion and I am sure that many would argue against me. However, I would like to clarify the fact that I do not wish to have an autobiography written--I would like a biograhpy. I am forced to attempt an autobiograhy simply because it's people and administrators, not unlke yourself, who feel that I am not good enough for Wikipedia. I am more than noteworthy, and intend to pursue more acceptable means of meeting my goal. I understand that vandallism is wrong, however, I must say again that I was driven to it by people who constantly barrate me and continously delete any attempt I make at modifying the site. The only reason I continue my crusade is because I want my voice to be heard and I don't want to be put off like some uneducated dumbo who doesn't know what he's doing. I thank you for your constant feedback and critisism, however negitive it may be at times, and I want you to know that I try my hardest to do the best I can.
April 3, 2007 Understood.
Thanks for the words of encouragement on Gim-Giz. I feel pretty confident about most splits, except when the page includes a lot of patriarchs and popes, monks and monarchs (sounds like a song title). My sequence checker now also highlights piping flubs. Of course, some eyeballing is also needed to detect and allow intentional misspellings (like Penn Gillette for Penn Jillete). But I have been putting missing portions back into the piped description, as in "John Lewis Gervais|Gervais, John", changing it to "John Lewis Gervais|Gervais, John Lewis", following the reasoning that if the article is correctly titled after the most common form of the name, using anything less in the piped description is not really helping the reader. On the other hand, adding information, as in 'Anne Louise Germaine de Staël|Germaine de Staël, Anne Louise, "Madame"' doesn't hurt, and may very much help, so I leave those alone. If I see "José" piped to "Jose", I generally put the diacritical marks back into the piped name. If you see a problem with any of this, let me know. Chris the speller 21:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I placed some names at BROWN that are still broken (red) links. After I submit as many articles at those broken (red) links as I possibly can, I shall henceforth refrain from introducing broken (red) links into the lists. It generates too many discombobulations within the lists. The lists are far too complex for me to understand. GhostofSuperslum 01:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Campbell's Soup Cans was promoted today. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 19:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
See Talk:Tim Anderson (Ananda Marga Three). Guy (Help!) 09:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the help on Alexander Wong. Looking back, I should have at least seen that he was a jurist, although the bio doesn't exactly make that immediately evident as recommended. (Am I too lazy/uninterested to fix that right now? Yep! :-)) When I read about his work in scouting, I probably (though I can't remember) considered calling him an activist, but so far I've usually associated "activist" only with political activities, however I'll take your recommendation and expand the scope of the term.
--Slyguy 17:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Re the LoPbN entry for John Hickman: Thanks for second guessing me in this case :) It was debatable to me, whether to remove his entry or not; I did take a look at the weblink - he did not necessarily seem "more notable than the average college professor"; also tried Google but maybe gave up too easily bc it returned too many different John Hickmans. (It appears that you were more patient and persistent with the Google searching than I was :) The final factor was that the editor who made the entry had very few contributions, and there seemed to be a tie-in with another user name that also had few contributions, the same one that had added the entry for the fictional character, Yuma Hickman. Common factor: both were editing Yuma and LoPbN for Hickman, on Apr 9-10, and had not edited much else. So, I questioned the reliability of the editor, and therefore his/her entry in this case.
But I approve your strategy of keeping the entry in LoPbN, and adding the comment to the John Hickman talk page, because he is a real person, and may be notable enough for Wikipedia. And I view the process - my decision to remove, and your subsequent decision to keep and your providing feedback, as a learning experience - gives me one more example on which to base decisions about the threshold of what to keep in LoPbN, in the case of possibly questionable notability.
Thanks again, Lini 22:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
See my talk. --Stemonitis 06:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the toast! Yes, it's been a long road... but still barely begun. Alexander and all its variations was definitely the largest block of similar names to date -- but, just think, now we have what is arguably the world's most centralized, extensive database of notable people named Alan, Albert, Alexander, etc.! A notable achievement in itself.
My pace has slowed since February, but I still have every intention of keeping it up (at least a couple hundred names added per week). Right now, I'm branching out into other things, mainly reverting vandalism, but updating the LoPbN is what I work on first in my sessions.
Thanks again, and cheers!
--Slyguy (talk) 19:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I take your point, but I didn't put the "re-creation after deletion" line; that was already placed on the speedy deletion tag on the article, and this confused me too; I simply added this statement to the talk page. I think I get what you mean about the difference with the notability/no claims of notability tag. I'm new to new page patrolling, and I just saw that this article seemed unnecessary and tried to get it removed by an admin as soon as possible. Thanks for the advice, and I'll be more careful next time. :-) --J. Atkins (talk | contribs) 15:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy. After reading your past contributions/concerns regarding the article on adultism from a few years ago, I would like to hear a current opinions about the current condition of the article. I would particularly be interested in reading your current thoughts regarding redirecting the article. Thanks. - Freechild 19:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, it looks as though the exhaustive page index was vandalized, with someone removing entire sections. I reverted it, and preserved your additions of the "Rus" and Russ" links.
--Slyguy (talk) 17:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_people_by_name
--Slyguy (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi - a stub template or category which you created has been nominated for deletion or renaming at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion. The stub type, which was not proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals, does not meet the standard requirements for a stub type, either through being incorrectly named, ambiguously scoped, or through failure to meet standards relating to the current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Wikipedia:Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first. Valentinian T / C 07:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you left a set of comments about Arguments for the pardon of Leonard Peltier in 2005. I am attempting to expand the article and fix things up in general. Watch this space! --Edwin Herdman 06:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Matters related to the 2007 May closed-as-Keep AfD/MfD of LoPbN, the closed-as-Reverse-and-Delete DRv, and the deletion of the pages of the Tree
Hi Jerzy. This removal of the entire LoPbN took me by surprise. I just added some of the most common Dutch family names to it (Jansen, de Jong). Had I realized they were after the pages again (I suppose I would have had to have the discussion page of the LoPbN main page on my watchlist; but who would have guessed) I would have voted a very strong keep, though I agree that the format of the list was becoming unsatisfactory. I would say that the absence of people sorted by surname (and alternative surname, pseudonym, etc), is one of the major oddities if not plain weaknesses of wikipedia. The self-important and uninformed commentary on the deletion discussion page make for some very depressing reading. Your argument that the previous N requests for deletion had all been defeated, but as long as they keep coming (perhaps even by sock poppets) the page will of course at one point lead to its deletion, no matter how narrowly, was a very astute one (and one that you have made before probably). Administrator Srikeit (doesn't that sound Orwellian) just created 156528 red links.
Carcharoth, who also had not seen this coming, has made a nice, and amazingly calm argument today on WP:ANI -using both my "van" and "x" list as examples of information that can't be obtained elsewhere (I know ;-) - but all he got were some links to (already outdated) wikipedia mirrors and google caches. I hope you will find a way to undelete the information and have it perhaps transformed into a less expensive and more manageable format.
You saw this coming probably. Did you store a local copy? Keep me informed on any progress.
Afasmit 04:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to both of the condolers.
--Jerzy•t 21:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Add my belated condolences, too. I just recently found out that the LoPbN project has been now destroyed. I would have voted strong keep, had I known that a deletion process was in progress. It is a sobering experience to see thousands of one's edits vanish and to read the same uninformed "Delete. unmaintainable" votes by newbies who have not even bothered to read the earlier 6-7 AfD discussions. Must have been a surprise for the closing admin to find out that there are nearly 1000 more pages (that were never marked with any deletion tag to begin with) to delete. And to only realize this after the closure! I'm beginning to think that the deletion review process is getting out of hand. As you know, it used to be called "votes for undeletion", with emphasis on overturning an occasional wrongful deletion. Today, it has become a general appeals court with its own regular voters who, in many cases, don't even follow AfD that much but still insist to participate to the "final round". We need a wiki supreme court of deletion (not!). Oh well, please let me know if you have any ideas to salvage LoPbN content or get the DRV overturned somehow. jni 07:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
_ _ Re Afasmit's question on preservation of LoPbN content: source & rendered versions of deleted pgs are accessible by admins, and in light of deletion not revoking its GFDL status, i presume providing either to anyone would be no problem; also, preventing that is IMO antithetical to WP ideology. I think the two feeding-frenzy processes are less than definitive, and perhaps irrelevant, re creating a Wikipedia:List of people by name tree from deleted source, but i'm not ready to start that without significant prior discussion.
_ _ BTW, i would argue that we've got (anywhere short of repudiation of the deletions) enough of a clean slate that the page- and section-titling scheme illustrated by simple:List of people by name: Aa - Ak... should be retrofitted onto WP:LoPbN. Note that for years we were using pages like List of people by name: name Smith for people named "Smith" and WP:List of people by name: Smith as the parent of, e.g., pages like the one with James Smithson on it.
Old way:
New way:
That would let us avoid the hazards of users misreading or being confused by the doubled word.
--Jerzy•t 23:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I hope you managed to retrieve the deleted pages. Did you get in contact with Carcharoth? He appeared to have plans to create a new surname index extracting (hopefully all) information of the LoPbN. Afasmit 21:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the comment. The trouble is that I'm sure all WSS/P and SFD participants do consider that they're considering such things on their merits (albeit one also sees some expressions of annoyance at the lack of proposal, or at other aspects of unproposed creations), so that suggesting that the motivation for such discussion is "not invented here" has distinct AGF implications. Even where they disagree sharply on said merits. Of course, it's not impossible that there are some nominations that are inspired partly out of such annoyance, etc, but it's rarely (if indeed ever) going to improve the quality of the discussion to assert that's the case. Alai 13:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Sd (disambiguation), by Mschel, another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Sd (disambiguation) is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).
To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Sd (disambiguation), please affix the template ((hangon)) to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Please note, this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion, it did not nominate Sd (disambiguation) itself. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot. --Android Mouse Bot 2 00:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on A Grizzly Murder, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet very basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add ((hangon))
on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 15:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on A Grizzly Murder, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet very basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add ((hangon))
on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Editus Reloaded 15:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Back in 2004, you started the Presidential Range (Green Mountains) article. Is "Presidential Range" the official name of this section of Vermont's Green Mountains? I don't see it on the topo map, and peakbagger.com doesn't have it. The USGS GNIS database doesn't have anything named "Presidential" in VT.
Maybe it's an unofficial name? Obviously someone did name those mountains after presidents.
—wwoods 16:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm finally following up my plans that followed the deletion of "List of people by name". In case you are interested: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#Sortkey and birth/death categories standardization project. I'm also contacting the others on this page who left notes about LoPbN, but if you know of others that might be interested, could you please let them know? The ultimate aim would be (if people remember to use DEFAULTSORT) to have something like this, but for all people, not just living people. That wouldn't have the subtleties of your list, or the annotations, but it would be a start in keeping things organised. eg. Lots of Mac... names. What do you think? Your input would be appreciated. Carcharoth 14:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Jerzy. I've replied to your post on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, trying to clarify, here. Bishonen | talk 18:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC).
Hi, Jerzy. I just determined that you are the editor who authored the definition of "Politician" for Category:Politicians -- which has remained unaltered for the last 2-1/2 years -- and I thought perhaps you might like to contribute to a little discussion about Category:Atheist politicians which is under way on my talk page. I'd be very interested to know your views on the subject. Cgingold 22:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
In May, there was a MfD on the List of people by name article (and its subpages). The consensus was to delete. Since anything related to LoPbN now would be rendered pretty useless, could we delete your subpages as housekeeping (there's no reason to take them to MfD also)? Singularity 17:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
The article Tom Smith (filker), which you have contributed to has been listed as being considered for deletion. Please add your comments to the discussion. Shsilver 12:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Can you explain why we need this? I think the proliferation of ((User...)) templates needs to be cut down, not increased —Random832 17:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
It sounds like something i've occasionally used, but without research i have no answer for you. Warum mich? I.e., why are you asking me? (Hmm, red lk. "'Hello, Dr. Jones. ... Um,' he said, 'should I free-associate or give you background material or just what?' // Dr. Jones said, 'Perhaps you could begin by telling me who you are und warum mich--why you have selected me.' ")
--Jerzy•t 18:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy, just thought you might be interested to know that I found the old page which you created People with Zack as given name and moved it to Zack (given name), which I was going to create anyway (leaving Zack as a pure disambiguation page). So, it wasn't wasted, and a little bit of page history ends up where it should be! - Fayenatic (talk) 19:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just noticed that a template you created, Template:Deln trk LoPbN Entry, is unused and appears to be abandoned. I've marked it as deprecated, meaning it'll be deleted in two weeks' time if nobody objects. If there's a reason to keep it please leave a note at Wikipedia talk:Deprecated and orphaned templates and feel free to remove the ((deprecated)) tag from the template. Thanks. Bryan Derksen (talk) 10:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I did a lot of subcategorizing in this category. But the Category:Surnames page needs some work. It lists some subcats twice. For example, Category:African surnames is listed in the "subcategories by region" and then again in the "subcategories" section. I assume that the ideal would be to get rid of the "subcategories" section. But I don't know how to do that without removing it from the subcategory page. Any suggestions? --Brewcrewer (talk) 04:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Could you merge the histories of User talk:Moe Epsilon and User talk:Save Us 229? Moe Epsilon is my old account. Thank you. — Save_Us_229 06:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
--
Hello, I posted a response to the message you wrote. It is on my talk page. Shannon bohle (talk) 20:36, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I have replied to your msg on my talk page. Thanks for visiting me. NoSeptember 23:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for fixoring the talk pages/disamb stuff and moving my comment. :) Gront (talk) 09:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Gary the Rat, Ren and Stimpy Adult Party Cartoon and Stripperella are gone and they're not coming back. Get used to it. AdamDeanHall (talk) 16:44, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
"voodoo lounge strings arranged by david campbell" on the search engine of your choice. Stan weller (talk) 00:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Jerzy, thanks for fixing that wikilink at MOS. Yes, I accidentally altered the link. There was a system anomaly that upset my editing at the time, and I did not correct it properly. Considering that I wrote a good deal of both affected sections at Apostrophe, I should have checked better. :)
– Noetica♬♩ Talk 20:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your response, I have replied on the Watson page, but I did remove the bit about me ranting as I considered it a personal attack (all personal attacks can be removed per WP:NPA). Thanks Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 14:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I have nominated Sophia Danenberg, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sophia Danenberg. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Guy (Help!) 18:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Mark Bowen (writer), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the ((dated prod))
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to the top of Mark Bowen (writer). --Dweller (talk) 15:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Mark Bowen (writer), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Bowen (writer). Thank you. Dweller (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Template:General Index only requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.
If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>((transclusionless))</noinclude>).
Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Template:OPbN Entry requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.
If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>((transclusionless))</noinclude>).
Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:10, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the note, though I'm not quite sure how to interpret your remarks. I don't think the MOS takes a position on split infinitives, and referring to split infinitive isn't very helpful, since it doesn't dictate Wikipedia's style. I'm a bit puzzled by your reference to "slow-paced edit warring." I don't think reverting an es-less anonymous edit to improve readibility qualifies as an edit war. Yes, it was 3 days after the change, I was a bit behind. I think it would take some sort of statement from those in opposition to qualify as a "war." I'd say this was just Being Bold.
I worry that trying to pre-empt an argument by citing split infinitive would just have the appearance of throwing up weak arguments to support a bad position. In fact it's a subtle stylistic judgement on which people can disagree, and there's no one right answer. I wouldn't want to give the appearance of pretending otherwise. jhawkinson (talk) 20:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Jerzy - Thanks so much for stepping in and halting the non-consensual changes of the Buddha page. You are like an "invisible hand" making WP work thoughtfully, progressively. Your stabilizing influence definitely helps prevent non-admins (such as myself) from becoming demoralized at times. Thanks once again so much, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 01:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I bolded Trunk and Trunks, mainly because I've seen most dabs do this. Was the colon supposed to be in bold as well? Please respond below, Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been noticing you've been doing quite a bit of dab cleanup recently, mainly to articles I’ve recently tagged for cleanup. Which I applaud because the list never seem to manage to be to zero. Though there are just a few things, with some of the pages you've edited, namely Leave and Cerberus (disambiguation), that don’t fit with what’s in WP:MOSDAB and common DAB formatting practise.
I've noticed you like to remove item descriptions and/or shorten them one or two words. Though MOSDAB states “The description associated with a link should be kept to a minimum, just sufficient to allow the reader to find the correct link”, one word usually doesn’t suffice. I look to the following examples on the page as to the general length and amount of detail that should be included. This usually means a short sentence fragment. Just this bit more information makes it clearer for the reader, and there isn’t much harm in added a few more words and it doesn’t clutter the pages as long all fits on one line. For instance in Cerberus (disambiguation), the descriptions I had before [6] your edit, would have been following more by Dab convention. Though I admit some of them were overly long, and do need shortening.
Also, it’s unnecessary to add lots of spacing between sections, simply for consistency purposes. I know it's something the MOS specifies but it's just common practice to only use one space between sections.
Finally, titles should either use section headers or bold subject area headings. (:
Hope I'm not sounding insanely nitpicky. I'm by no means an expert, so feel free to address anything you disagree with. Meanwhile, keep up the disambiguating. France3470 (talk) 21:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
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Thanks for catching the extra 'see also' section. Yup, it was a cut-n-paste overlook. I appreciate it. Gwguffey (talk) 14:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
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Hello,
can you please kindly undo your move of Watershed (South African band) to Watershed (African band) for the following reasons, in no particular order
I would undo this move myself, but it seems to require administrator privilages.
Faithfully
Rfwoolf (talk) 15:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
---
Your crucial point is almost certainly the first one, since none of the assumptions you hypothesized was present in my mind, let alone the basis of the change i made. If
I considered immediately changing the dab'g suffix from (African band) to (Africa band) (without prejudice to any different change, or to a change back to either of the immediately previous titles), since it would seem to me to ameliorate the 2nd and 3rd points you cite (which i assume you find bad as sources of confusion). But if my inevitably poor response time until the US polls close on Tuesday is frustrating, perhaps it would ease the process more if i restore your preferred version (likewise without prejudice to other outcomes), at least until that eve.
My view, based on occasionally reading relevant portions of the pgs i cite above (but never carefully checking them in this regard), and thinking a lot, in the context of both policy formation and experience with individual cases, about what underlying model in my colleagues' minds seems to exist, is that the stated purpose and the examples given on the pages i cite, of titles with dab'g suffixes, supports the common-sense approach that the purpose of a dab'g suffix is to dab'ate with the most quickly readable text that will do the job. That makes me want to reduce the words devoted, beyond name and the fact of being a band, to one if feasible. If a band played in both Belgium and Luxembourg and had equal numbers of players of those nationalities, i wouldn't title its article Watershed (Belgian-Luxembourgish band); if it played throughout Belgium, i'd go with Watershed (Belgian band); if played equally in both countries, i might like Watershed (Luxembourgish band) -- but only bcz those would respectively stay short while catching what was distinctive (not a perfectly accurate statement). I don't mean to equate your request with the presumably promotional intentions that lead some editors to something like Watershed (white South African alternative-rock band). On the other hand, that differs only in degree from what i removed. Both provide
The expansion of the dab't sfx is a bad way to provide additional information (the article content has that job, and is organized to get the most important info first), and anyone who concludes that Watershed is a black band is only likely to be harmed by that if they know the band they are looking for is white but don't realize it's from Africa. But a sensible reader says "that's ambiguous" and looks at the article content, not the mechanics of dealing with duplicated names, to get info.
Mistakes get made all the time as a result of editing boldly, and AFAIK, a WikiProject is likely to get confused about what its scope of decision making is, and set up a standard, contrary to the sensible overall guidelines and policies, for, say, dab'g band names, in an effort to provide more info, or less ambiguous info, or the same amount of info in multiple instances. Your expectation that
continent names not be Dab'g sfx's sounds to me like that.
On the other hand, the full policies and guidelines are probably too much for most admins to have straight in their heads. I infer the approach i've described to you from the general thrust of how we do things, but i'm prepared to hear evidence that i'm mistaken. Tell me, or tell the talk page for the article in question, if you like, what your assertion is based on, and what evidence you find that the broader policies intend to leave that room. I've been wrong before "and it could happen a second time" [wink]. So i'm open to being convinced.
--Jerzy•t 06:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
---
You have asked me to supply evidence to simply say that the current wikipolicy does not encourage a "shorter is best" naming convention and you know that this is not possible - but of course there is the ignore all rules policy, and there is no policy specifically covering band names, but I'm afraid this all seems to be moot, since I could not find the policy that encourages the "shorter is best" naming convention in the first place. Perhaps you have misenterpreted the policy as saying "short is best" instead of "shorter is better". While shorter is better, surely accuracy and how the band is known as plays a significant part? Would it help you if I sent you press clippings and links to places describing Watershed as "South African band, Watershed, blah blah blah" ?
I find your implementation of the apparent policy (if the policy is true) problematic, at least in this case. The ignore all rules policy even part of the Manual of Style page for Disambiguation Pages found at WP:D states that there will always be articles where the application of its policies is inappropriate. You renamed the Columbus, Ohio band to just Ohio band (a state), therefore, should the South African band be renamed to the state that they're from? How well known do you think the state/province they're from is? (that state is "Gauteng". Very few people especially their fans in Germany where the band had a chart topper there) would have ever heard of Gauteng. Also, is the South African band even known as the band from that province? (whereas the band from Ohio is known to be from Ohio). The answer is no, Watershed is not known as the band from Gauteng, and nor are they known as the band from Africa. They are known as the band from South Africa.
Finally, I'm afraid the "shorter is betterbest" policy would be wrong in principal if it outright shortened all disambiguation names, simply because a) it ignores what those articles may be "known as" (e.g. Watershed is not known as African band) and b) while the new shorter disambiguation name might technically be "correct" you can easily lose accuracy. (e.g. "South African band" is more accurate than "African band". The reverse can also be true, you could disambiguate a band by the city they're from when the state or country they're from would actually be accurate enough and its popular name.
Rfwoolf (talk) 12:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Your last is long, and i'm going to reproduce each portion, in italics, in order to respond to it, creating gaps, often within 'graphs, to comment in. And if (in the belief that this is your definitive position) i ignore any points you made in previous edits and don't feel i've implicitly answered here, please bring them to my attention again.
In your most recent, i see no point in responding to the long initial paragraph, whose principal virtue in this matter is that we are free to regard it as irrelevant here, so that
--Jerzy•t 09:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Serendipitously, i just ran across this new guideline (apparently resulting from the acceptance as a guideline of an essay on m:Voting is evil), in a vain attempt to find the previous versions of the 2002 "simplicity" discussion. It probably says better what i was trying to get at in our discussion of consensus.
--Jerzy•t 10:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy. I'm back after taking off some time to focus on some intense work -- I'm now taking an "upkeep" day. Again, looking at a strictly disambiguation point of view, I can certainly see the value of being short and simple, but considering the article (Watershed (band in Africa)) and just the article, I still cannot agree to its title, again because of another factual inaccuracy (what makes the band "in Africa" -- are they trapped there or something) and because again, an article's title is part of its definition and classification and therefore you should not be classifying this band because it is "in" Africa when it would be more accurate to classify them as South African.
Another issue here is that I think we have actually gone backwards: you went from "African band" to "band in Africa": you went from simple to less simple, inaccurate to more inaccurate. Now they aren't even an African band - they're some roaming nomadic band in Africa!
Whatever guideline you have adopted for your disambiguation naming -- whether enshrined in wikipolicy or not -- is certainly myopic, if it causes accurate article names to be inaccurate, and changes the final name of an article to something that seems out of sorts with an encyclopedia.
In closing, through this discourse we have managed to express our views, understand eachother's position, and considered changing position. Perhaps now it would be appropriate to open the issue to a request for comment, as you have suggested earlier. As an admin -- "mop and bucket" and all -- I am open to other forums that you may suggest - and I know we've already discussed that but I'll re-iterate it. Let's proceed with that. Thanks Rfwoolf (talk) 16:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy. I have set up a RfC at Talk:Watershed_(band_in_Africa)#Request_for_Comment_-_Proper_title_for_article. Please note that I do have a bias here (that the article should be called Watershed (South African band), so your views might not be fully reflected. I hope I've setup the RfC correctly, I chose the policy RfC portal. Let's see what other editors think Rfwoolf (talk) 10:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Just a very minor note (not purely sure why I'm giving it to be honest): Even though you are mentioned in the RFC, you are not obligated to post a reply (as perhaps your own part of the RFC summary where you outline reasons why the article's name should by x or y), but of course are welcome to do so. :) Rfwoolf (talk) 04:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I understand your want to provide a response, but right now it looks like more of a debate - instead of providing reasons for the change of article title, you have instead provided rebuttles for all my reasons, hense for want of a beter word, a "debate". I was expecting you to perhaps add your own subsection like "Reasons why the article should be renamed", or at least a concise comment. Of course perhaps you do want to rebuttle some of my points, but right now it would be good if you demonstrated reason TO make the change. Granted, I was not overly concise myself in my posting of the RfC -- I could have simply put the first section "This issue in brief", but it is my experience in these discussions that people need more or else the RFC runs amuck with no direction.
You will note that it has already been almost 24 hours without a single response. Of course RFCs can run for a month, but right now I'm worried nobody's going to be eager to chip in on this. Perhaps after a few days or more I can try the village pump (where gets a lot more traffic and people don't seem to be bothered if you go there as a first resort). I will then - in fairness to you, make my post a bit more concise and to the point, and get independant thinking. Rfwoolf (talk) 11:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello. I notice you haven't placed any objection under the requested move section on the article's talk page. Are you still objecting to the proposed move? If so perhaps we should think about what other steps can be taken to reach consensus; if not I'll make the move since it's gone five days without comment. Cheers. Olaf Davis | Talk 14:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Kevin Taylor, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Kevin Taylor seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.
To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Kevin Taylor, please affix the template ((hangon)) to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 23:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I see you have a history of working on the article Ware Group. I am looking at it from the project Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles where it is one of the longest ((unreferenced)) tagged articles that does not meet at least the barest minimum of verifiability. It has been tagged and completely without references since June 2006. It would be extremely helpful if you had some references you could add to the article to help support its verifiability and notability. Thanks for any help you can give. BirgitteSB 17:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I commented on your response to my Milo & Otis edit here: Talk:The Adventures of Milo and Otis...hopefully we can reach a compromise. --The lorax (talk) 03:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Jerzy, thank you for the note. I deleted the J11 code from the dab page, and added a citation for Bruno, which I knew of before I used the erroneous J11 code, to the Museum of Man and Nature. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 02:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your attention to this matter. MusiCitizen (talk) 12:13, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I've dabbed that page properly now. As it is I think it is valid ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 11:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
There is an alternate method. Please look at this discussion. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
For the reversion on Jackson County Courthouse, and not explaining better. I was afraid anything I said might come out snippy, and I try very hard not to be uncivil. It's why I asked others to chime in, who could explain the whys and wherefores better, and more politicly than I was afraid I might do. I should have discussed it first, I admit, but it's easier to just hit the undo button, ya know. I'm glad the results turned out well, fortunately for all. Continued happy editing from now on, eh? :)
Btw, have you considered archiving your talk page? It's kinda long. I use MiszaBot III, which does it automatically. Just a helpful suggestion, I hope. Cheers! :) --Ebyabe (talk) 19:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Where should this link be placed on DMZ? Couldn't find a place for it. Please reply on your talk page. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
would have or should have each further inhibited you from both of those steps, and eventually made you abandon them, even tho you weren't obliged to choose to distract yourself from your goals, by taking the effort to retarget the Rdr. BOLD has to be much more permissive re addition of material than re its removal.
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Supplement (publishing), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: Supplement. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 18:14, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm confused. 1) That qualified as a speedy anyway, as one of those "Recently created redirects from implausible typos or misnomers"; and 2) Sesshomaru asserted that it was a non-controversial housekeeping delete, since while it was actually a redirect, its title said it was a dab page, and it linked to only one place. --Orange Mike | Talk 04:15, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello
The local account has now been usurped.
On a side note, please keep in mind that until bugzilla:14330 is corrected and go "live", it is not advised to merge if any account to usurp is left.
DarkoNeko x 08:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
The user has been notified. He now has seven days to object. If he doesn't (and we'll be very surprised if he does), the usurpation will proceed. Sir Wolf (talk) 10:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I tweaked it again. I was fixing it when you edit conflicted me. Check Mel Gibson and see what you think. IP4240207xx (talk) 02:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Thought about archiving your talk page? IP4240207xx (talk) 02:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Template:Tuck surnames has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. MBisanz talk 21:01, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I replied at nl:User_talk:Erwin#Usurpation request: Jerzy. --Erwin85 (talk) 13:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I have accepted your usurpation request on Polish Wikibooks. You now own the name b:pl:Wikipedysta:Jerzy. --Derbeth talk 09:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Jerzy got your message.
Johnny Come lately as I said in my response is a tag which would be put on every club that is successful. Has that discussion been put on every club page?
Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc
You say I am disruptively editing the PFC page, when In fact I am correcting it.
I have substantially more knowledge of what going on at Portsmouth than 99.9% of fans so I leave it entirely in your hands. Ban me if you wish but it is to your detriment not mine. I need not reveal my sources for such info and correct it as I see fit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FMPR (talk • contribs) 14:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
You added a section to this talk page labeled Tribes but it does not explain what the list is or how it would improve the article. Perhaps this is something that should be at Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America but I really don't understand what it is about. Rmhermen (talk) 15:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi! I've replied on your Commons discussion page. Regards, Maire (talk) 00:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd tag it for cleanup, but I need a second set of eyes. It appears there was some edit warring recently. Thoughts? Please reply below, Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice man. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm still hanging around a little. Just to make sure, you're talking about the time I copied and pasted the Twelver article from the Ithna'Ashari to the newer location? I do recall that, and that was when I was not aware of how to use/get the 'move' feature. Or are you speaking about another move that is going to occur? I am really sorry for the time I did that, I realize is pretty awful. --Enzuru 00:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I must have accidentally grabbed the version before my previous edit when I made the change that magically resurrected this, shall we say, odd word. Very careless of me! - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jerzy,
Just a pointer on your recent edit to the hatnote on cruft. Using the provided templates for hatnotes keeps them short and consistent; in this case, I've converted your version to use two templates, which saves us 80 bytes (not a big deal, but hey, it's a saving) and gives an identical output (but one which will be automatically updated in future if the project decides to change the way hatnotes are displayed). Even if you can't find an appropriate combination of templates, wrapping the note in ((dablink)) automatically adds the italics and indents it, which is better than manually doing so. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I thought I was blocked for a month but, on second look, now see it was shorter.
You blocked me for "Tendentious response to follow up of previous block". I have looked up WP:BLOCK. Your reason is not a reason for blocking. It is abuse of power. Please do a defacto block of yourself by not editing Wikipedia for 24 hours.
Making a comment of how carelessness can cause hardship beyond what was intended is an appropriate comment. That's what I did but what you blocked me for.
Saying sorry is potentially only lip service. Please respond here that you have read this and then cease editing or using any type of editing, moving, or other function for 24 hours. By taking responsibility for your actions, you will become a better administrator, worthy of admiration. HRCC (talk) 22:33 &:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
You may be worthy of admiration because after you edited my statement above, you did a reply to someone else and stopped editing (this is not quite the same as being blocked because when you are blocked, you can't even finish up a few edits like you did). Whether you are busy or not doesn't matter. You are not editing. Keep this up for another half day and my opinion of you will change. HRCC (talk) 14:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Jerzy, I am certainly aware of BLP concerns -I mostly work in those areas. And I agree that BLP still applies here. But I don't see at all that my edits were any kind of violation of BLP or anything else, and in particular don't agree that my edit summary was misleading - maybe too short, but not "misleading". My edits were based on discussions that took place on the talk page of the article and on a subpage that had been taken to AfD and ruled a Keep, but recommended and eventually agreed to merge back into the main article. The text that was there was part of the merge discussions. Specifically, my recollection of talk consensus was to include Springsteen's comments and not Limbaugh's - I don't necessarily object to having Limbaugh included, but I do very much object to the removal of Springsteen, and the characterization by another editor - ignoring discussion - with edit summary that said removed Sprinsteen paragraph, the latter is no journalist and his inclusion is irrelevant - that was never agreed to, that logic is wrong, and that editor had no business replacing Springsteen with Limbaugh without consensus. In fact that was what he had argued earlier on talk, and it had not been agreed to - so coming in now and just changing it to how he wanted it is just not ok. So, my edit summary may have been truncated, but indeed I reverted because the changes were not reflecting consensus, and some original text was part of the merger that had been hard fought. And some other changes were inconsequential - I tried to just return the article to where it had been before the non-consensus changes were made - if a few small things were moved back, I didn't think it made much difference. Hope that clarifies - what do you want to do now that you've reverted mine? I am pretty much ready to bail on this article - too many people have been using it as a battleground for their own politics and I have enough of that on Barack Obama. Tvoz/talk 06:37 & :55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate you sharing your concerns, Jerzy. In hindsight, it might not have been a bad idea to put it through an AFD, just because it's not quite the same sort of unnecessary disambiguation page that usually gets deleted. Actually, (I don't know if there's precident for this, but I'm going to do it anyway), I'm going to undelete it and put it up for an AfD. It may turn out the same, but it may not, and perhaps others will have good ideas on how to make it a more useful page. Thanks for calling me on my quickness to the trigger. As for the deletion summary (and, thus, the rational for deleting it), it seemed that all the articles that could legitimately be on Kiwi (disambiguation) were there, and the rest listed at Eponyms of the kiwi just happened to have "Kiwi" in the name, and be about New Zealand. I tried to think of a way that it could be a set index article, but it didn't seem like one. Here's the AfD - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eponyms of the kiwi. -- Natalya 11:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Thought you might like to reread your [most recent post] at Talk:Tim Russert. It was probably not quite as civil as you might have intended. Thanks, --Clubjuggle T/C 11:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Jerzy, redirects like this one are unneeded. Don't you recall this discussion? There are other ways of doing this you know. Only reason why I haven't marked Freeze (song) (disambiguation) for deletion is that I forgot about it. Point being, Ten (album) should either be turned into a set index article or be merged with Ten. Exactly how many other "bad redirects" have you been making? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Rather that adding "Ugg" banners to articles in a hit an run accessment; you might consider actually spending 5-10 minutes actually fixing them. Adding abnners to the TOP of a page is arrogant, self righteous, pointless and annoying to a n'th degree. Ceoil sláinte 21:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Please avoid tagging articles without providing an explanation of the issues you allege, as you did here. Instructions for correctly using the cleanup tag can be found at Template:Cleanup#Placement and Template:Cleanup#Usage; I don't see indications of a "major cleanup" needed at that article, nor did you start a talk page section detailing your concerns. I did notice one incorrect dash and one incorrect ellipses, which can be fixed faster than adding a tag. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Jae (given name), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: Jae (disambiguation). It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 06:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh how ironic that I almost titled this talk subject "Bell Hooks". Anyway, please check the debate again, because I feel that there is no argument against it that is valid. The new updates to the MOS with regards to capitalization state:
Some individuals, such as k.d. lang, do not want their personal names capitalized. In such cases, Wikipedia articles may use lower case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources. If multiple styles have regular and established use in reliable sources, use the orthography preferred by the individual.
So for both reasons stated here, the move should take place. There is regular and established use - as seen on the covers of books, how she is listed in catalogs, and in news sources. If you consider the very few instances where her name is capitalized to constitute "multiple uses", then the second rule applies, as we should use what bell hooks herself prefers - and that is her name in lower case. I make further arguments on the talk page with regards to how the lower case is symbolic of bell hooks' personal philosophy, and it is therefore not only a courtesy to title the article in lower case, but reflective of the subject of the article itself. Godheval (talk) 20:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Geez, man...you really need to work on being more clear and concise. I seriously have no idea what you're saying here, and I'll try to point out the troublesome parts. I underline in red the parts I don't understand and follow them with my questions (in parentheses and bold).
What discussion, what text? Be specific.
a point was made (at the end of quoted phrase): (By who? Where?) that the obvious approach to adopting such a version (what version, of what?) does not keep the proper name lower case, in situations where a common noun would be upper-cased. (Lost, because I don't know what you're referring to in the previous phrase). I don't know what you think about the sent(ence?) in the article that starts "Hooks", but you are arguing that (whatever effect it has at the start of sentences) the guideline means that lower-cased personal names differ from common nouns in their treatment when used in titles.
Where am I arguing that proper nouns and personal names should be treated differently? Nowhere. I am arguing that they should be treated the same where necessary, as in iPhone (proper noun) and bell hooks (lower-cased personal name).
For you to be right, that issue has to (in light of the wp-tk phrase about start-of-sentence being an exception) have been discussed further on in the WP-talk page for the guideline, and have resulted in a consensus that is not properly reflected in the guideline.
I just plain have no idea what you're referring to here, i.e. which talk page or which issue. In any case, I am not arguing anything about "start of sentence" rules, only the title of the article. I am fine with "bell hooks" becoming "Bell hooks" at the start of a sentence.
I am prepared to be shown you are right, but nothing in the bh-talk page section on this suggests that anyone but myself recognizes that the guideline (what guideline are you referring to?!)' does not mean that (Aggggh! Does not mean what?!) unless it says that, so i'll be surprised if the WP-talk page should turn out to be consistent with that meaning.
Again, what guideline? The argument did not start with a guideline, but with the fact that the author writes her name, and it is listed in most other media, in lower case. Because Wikipedia is such a rule-bureaucracy, supporters had to cite some guideline somewhere in order to give the argument more weight. That was done, thanks to the recent revisions to the MOS.
There was nothing hasty about the consensus. The point was well-argued, and there is ample evidence that the move should be made - found in the mass consensus on the issue (as per publishers, booksellers, newspapers, bloggers, and bell hooks herself), the Wikipedia consensus on the bell hooks talk page, and the arguments that I myself have made with respect to how the naming convention is more than a courtesy, but reflective of the content of the article, i.e. bell hooks personal philosophy of suppressing egoism. With all this muddled language you use - no offense - I feel that any delay to go forward with the move must be some perverse semantics argument that I don't care to make sense of, since semantics is not the basis of my argument.
A whole bunch of pronouns that are not clearly associated with their original subjects - you know, like the way that relates to this, according to those rules? - a whole bunch of mid-sentence tangents (did I mention I like cake?), and a whl bnch of shrthnd makes you very difficult to understand. So let's reduce this discussion to the basics.
Reasons to move Bell Hooks to bell hooks:
1. MOS provisions for this exact kind of change, cited several times throughout the discussion. Specifically, the MOS says that "Wikipedia articles may use lower case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources." The underlined condition has been met, as demonstrated in the vast number of sources - not including the author herself - that print her name in lower-case.
2. The MOS goes on to say "If multiple styles have regular and established use in reliable sources, use the orthography preferred by the individual." This means that if we see the name both upper and lower cased in different sources - and we do, as there are a few sources that do not recognize the lower-casing - then we use the style preferred by bell hooks, which is to lower-case her name. Sources showing that this is her feeling on the matter have been cited in the discussion.
3. If the above isn't enough, there is also the point - well-cited in interviews with the author - that the reason she lower-cases her name has to do with the suppression of ego, which is part of her personal philosophy, and ties directly into the subject material of her many books. Since the content of the article is about the author, her philosophy, and her writing, and the latter two are irrevocably tied to the lower-casing of her name, the title of the article (as the header to said content) should be lower-cased as well.
4. Please note that the argument in favor of moving the article has nothing to do with whether or not the name should be capitalized at the beginning of a sentence. The two arguments - the latter of which I am not making at all - are mutually exclusive. The iPhone article lowercases the first letter, and most sources that talk about the iPhone recognize that lower-casing. However, at the beginning of sentences, "IPhone" will be used. This naming convention is done merely with respect to Apple's chosen orthography. So why in the world would we not extend that same respect to a human being, especially when the reasons for honoring her chosen orthography are far more extensive and significant to who she is and what she stands for.
5. The simple and obvious fact that there are no sustainable arguments against the points raised above. Any resistance to the move is out of some strange and inexplicable obstinance. There may actually be an explanation, but I am not yet ready to launch that particular accusation.
Reasons not to move the article:
Oh noes, oh crapz! There arez nonez!
Case emphatically and explicitly closed. Godheval (talk) 00:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
No offense, but I really - truly do not care. I won't edit even a letter, because I said it the way I meant it. Come what may, I don't edit or censor my speech for anyone, especially not some online encyclopedia. It's just not important enough. I couldn't care less about the editors or administrators or "crats" or Jimmy Wales himself. You're all just people - in the latter case a person who has done something extraordinary for certain - but no one that I will make any special provisions for. You have to earn that.—GodhevalT C W 05:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)