The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Rum#History . Given that there appears to be some useful content here, but probably not enough for a stand alone article, this would appear to be the best course. Black Kite (t) (c) 17:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gunpowder Rum[edit]

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Article is entirely speculation, original research, commercial promotion, or tangential and irrelevant to the topic. Not a single reference cited includes anything about the topic itself Mark Asread (talk) 16:46, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There clearly was such a drink (1, 2, 3) but it doesn't appear to have been referred to in depth under the name "gunpowder rum", and it seems there are many commercial products of that name these days that this article is perhaps intended to promote.--Pontificalibus (talk) 17:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 17:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nice research finding this stuff, Gene93k. And fun to read about rum and gunpowder. The three sources you cite show it as a way of sealing a vow or showing loyalty to a rebellion, not as a beverage.

Here's my review of the entire contents of this article.

The section "Naval Uses of Gunpowder and Rum" has extensive information on the folkloric use of gunpowder to test alcohol proof for various spirits, but nothing specifically about Rum.

It then adds speculation about adding rum and gunpowder to drinking water as a preservative, using rum as a test of the burn rate of gunpowder, using rum and gunpowder to supposedly create create a waterproof fuse, using rum to clean gun barrels and using gunpowder "for sterilizing on ships when there was no alcohol to hand." Not one of these assertions are supported by any refrences or evidence, and some of these are patently ridiculous.

The section "Use and Reasons for Gunpowder in Beverages" begins with speculation that since one of the components of gunpowder (Sulfur) has been used as a preservative and another (Charcoal) has been used as a filtering agent for liquids "...Raw, over-proof rum, for example, could, in this manner, be made more palatable." The same section then speculates (again without any evidence) that gunpowder rum might have been accidentally created when used gunpowder barrels might have been used to store rum.

The next section, "Other Examples of Gunpowder and Rum in combination" mentions Haitian Voodoo uses of gunpowder and rum (not for beverage use). It then discusses the speculates (with no more prof than the words "It seems a fair supposition..." and "One can easily imagine...") that rum barrels might have been built with hidden compartments for smuggling gunpowder. :Finally it states (again with no citations or even examples) that "Gunpowder and rum were, in previous times, used in conjunction to create tattoos."

The penultimate section "Famous Users of Gunpowder Rum" claims that Blackbear the Pirate was a gunpowder rum consumer, apparently because "..He is sometimes depicted with his pigtails on fire like the fuses of a gun."

And finally, the section "Modern Examples of Gunpowder Rum" does mention a product that may, in fact, exist, "Smoke & Oakum's Gunpowder Rum" from New Zealand, but has no references to back this up.

The 5 references cited in the article are valid references to various topics (proof-strength testing, Rum in history, Blackbeard), none of which include Gunpowder Rum.

So there is nothing in this article that verifyably shows that gunpowder and rum were ever intentionally mixed together for beverage purposes before the Smith and Oakum's product. Maybe this article was posted by someone who wants to promote Smith and Oakum's product, or maybe it was created as a joke, but any claim of real, encyclopedic value for this page evaporates like spilled Rum on the deck of a sailing ship or fizzles into smoke like damp gunpowder. Mark Asread (talk) 17:16, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The material is sufficient& the summary above is enough to show that. Some trimming is probably needed. If there are multiple related meanings, meaning, the article can cover them all.Checkingfoor other references, Google Books shows [1]. and [2] DGG ( talk ) 22:50, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

comment Thanks, DGG, for finding those Google Book references. If the page stays around, We'll have to add them. I'm not sure, though how you concluded that the summary I wrote shows that the material in this article is sufficient. I think it shows that there's almost nothing on-topic from a reliable source (except the product mention). Here's my executive summary of my summary:

section 1: not about rum, unsourced speculation
- section 2: unsourced speculation, supposition, "imagine..."
- section 3: unsourced speculation
- section 4: product mention
- references: None having to do with "Gunpowder Rum."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but It seems to me that all that is left is two sentences: "Rum mixed with gunpowder (and sometimes tobacco or graveyard dirt) has been used in voodoo ceremonies and to seal oaths" and "Smith and Oakum, a New Zealand Company, sells a rum flavored with gunpowder, tobacco, and chili." These could probably be placed into other articles.

Mark Asread (talk) 17:46, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Rum#History There are certainly a few descriptions of this beverage in the above mentioned sources. DGG's even provided a source that went beyond a mere mention. That said, I'm not convinced this subject has enough in-depth content to merit its own articles. I think most of this information is more useful over on the main page for rum, specifically under the "History" header. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 23:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As my summary above shows, there are few or no verifiable pieces of information in this article that relate to anything called Gunpowder Rum other than the advertisement of Smoke and Oakum's product. There's not even any evidence that anyone ever referred to drinking something called "gunpowder rum." Most of the rest of the article is speculation, myths, irrelevancies , suppositions and bilge (this has gotten me in touch with my inner scurvy dog). The few flecks of verifiable information might be merged into Rum#History and maybe Haitian_Vodou. That said, I would love to try the Smoke and Oakum stuff (tobacco, chili and gunpowder!). Mark Asread (talk) 00:12, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, causa sui (talk) 00:12, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.