The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Keep. Please discuss on the article talk page whether the albums should be merged with the artist or vice versa, or whether they can both have articles. (non-admin closure) Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  19:46, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Deyo[edit]

Jeff Deyo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Source searches are not providing qualification for an article; does not meet WP:BASIC or WP:MUSICBIO. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:52, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:02, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:02, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep being the lead singer of Sonicflood is a significant thing; some sources and text they could support below. More sources visible in proquest news archive search.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:19, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Here is one source I found, a feature/profile (^[1]) Feel free to add it to article. More sources are out there.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:44, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Deyo was born in Minnesota. He left Sonicflood in 2000. He is the married father of four children. He works as a studio arts professor.^[2]

• "Deyo, who was named one of Radio & Records magazine's Top 10 Breaththrough Artists of the Year in 2002." He lived in Nashville as of 2003.^[3]

• Dayo became the "lead worshiper" in the Jeff Dayo Band.^[4]

• His faculty bio at North Central University can also be used to source basic bio, and should be added to "external links".E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:41, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy Keep - it's hard to imagine how having three album articles does not mean the subject is notable. WP:NOTINHERITED applied the other way around: an album is not immediately notable just because the subject has an article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:23, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment – Please revisit both WP:Speedy keep & WP:GNG. - NitinMlk (talk) 19:38, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect- Redirect to Sonicflood. Having articles about albums doesn't necessarily make one notable and I'd likely support deleting them if they get nominated. SonicFlood is notable, but I don't see Deyo being that notable on his own. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:51, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose Sonicflood as target for a redirect. Reason is that while Sonicflood broke up within 2 years of Deyo's departure. Deyo formed a new band that toured and got press coverage, including at least some (looked minor) press coverage for the albums. My suggestion is that the post-Sonicflood albums be redirectted to this article, while this article continues to be linked from Sonicflood.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:46, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Perhaps you want to unbold your response so it doesn't look like another !vote. Since SonicFlood charted on their own, I don't see why they'd be a redirect. They pass WP:NBAND Niteshift36 (talk) 15:03, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Done, But As I understand it, No one is proposing to redirect Sonicflood. Niteshift36 proposed to redirect Jeff Deyo to Soniclflood.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:21, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• I believe that, in this case, case. Deyo's main notability comes from his association with Sonicflood. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:12, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• revisiting, double-checking myself I ran a gNews search and immediately hit upon in Christianity Today, datelne 2014: "The age of worship rock that started with Jeff Deyo turning In The Secret (I Want to Know You) into a power-pop song in 1999 has officially ended—and it's about time. That sound stayed around far too long."[1]. Perhaps that's why he took a teaching job, but he really does look WP notable.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:37, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Keep it or don't keep it, I don't care — but this is an unsourced BLP as it stands, so there needs to be a reference added, at a minimum. Carrite (talk) 17:59, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Sonicflood, per WP:ATD-R. The subject is nowhere close to meeting WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. E.M.Gregory has found few sources which give a passing mention of the subject. But we need in-depth coverage in multiple independent reliable sources for a standalone BLP. We could've merged few relevant bits to Sonicflood, but the BLP is unsourced. - NitinMlk (talk) 19:38, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Sources. The sources I list above are not mere "passing mentions," additions WP:SIGCOV includes:

• Interview With Jeff Deyo, 11 July 2013, [2].E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:12, 27 August 2017 (UTC) - This ran in http://worshipleader.com/[reply]
• Jeff Deyo: The one time lead singer of Sonicflood reaching saturation point , 1 July 2002, [3].E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:34, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This ran in a Cross Rhythms (magazine) or Cross Rhythms website.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:53, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment – These two interviews of the subject were published in the sources of online communities. One of them is a charity which promotes Christian Music and the other one is an online community. Sometimes these sort of sources can be used to add non-controversial info in BLPs, provided there is editorial oversight. But they can never be used to prove notability. As already stated, he is known for Sonicflood, and his relevant details are already covered in that article's history section. At best few other relevant sentences might be added there. - NitinMlk (talk) 17:18, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• A charity is an NGO, and many of them have publications. Granted worshipleader.com [4] is a small organization, but, in principal, it is in the same category as all other non-for-profits. The other article ran online in Cross Rhythms (magazine) or Cross Rhythms or one of the other affiliates within Category:Cross Rhythms, a rather large outfit.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:53, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Beliefs aside, Worship Leader takes user submitted articles and appears to lack editorial oversight. That will pretty much remove it from bein a RS. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:18, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Among other things, these religion-promoting sites are blatant violation of one of WP's three core content policies – WP:NPOV. That's why these types of sites/charities/NGOs aren't considered as reliable enough to add encyclopedic content in BLPs, let alone proving their notability. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - As an unsourced BLP. Ping me if this gets fixed, but this is a deletionworthy state of affairs. Carrite (talk) 02:12, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Irrelevant since sources exist and have been brought ot this page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:58, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Sources brought to this discussion above include profile articles in the Sunday News (Lancaster) and Albuquerque Journal, and other sources that, taken together, suffice to establish notability and flesh out an WP:ANYBIO.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:58, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• note that this article was created in 2007, which was just after Deyo's fairly brief career as a performer wound down and he segued to full-time college music prof who does gigs as a worship leader. It has been edited by dozens of editors over the years. My proposal, above, is that it be kept and the article on his album redirected here.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Article can be sourced to CBN: [5].E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• As I've already stated above, these religion-promoting sites are blatant violation of WP:NPOV. I mean you have to just read its mission statement. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Nonsense. The overwhelming majority of non-for-profit organizations are POV promoters of one ideology or another. As are most mainstream media. Neither the Wall Street Journal nor The Guardian makes the least pretense of being ideologically neutral, but both are regarded as WP:RS, as is Christian Broadcasting Network, which promotes Christianity. Audubon (magazine) is for the birds. Rolling Stone takes an anti-George Frideric Handel POV. With media, the quesiton is how reliable is the source, not is it POV. With small professional outfits like Worship Leader, or, indeed with any non-profit, the question is how significant and how reputable a non-profit org is, not whether it takes a NPOV. Even small, specialized outfits like Worship Leader contribute their mite to notability.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:01, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't get my point at all. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yesterday I just closed the link after reading its first line. But today I read the remaining interview. It's a promo of his upcoming (non-notable) album Unveil, which was released in 2007, according to the above unsourced BLP. So, just to be clear, this source isn't even discussing him. - NitinMlk (talk) 17:06, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Also, you seem to be ignoring the WP:SIGCOV in the Sunday News (Lancaster) and Albuquerque Journal.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:01, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't ignored anything. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Sonicflood; not independently notable. Fails WP:MUSICBIO. No significant accomplishments in the non-music career either. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:09, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Despite the assertion by NitinMlk above, sources such as CBN are valid, independent sources for supporting notability of a recording artist when they publish material such as this detailed, longish: [6] review of the post-Sonicflood Jeff Dayo album Unveil. The fact that Deyo is Christian and the network is Christian does not invalidate it as a source any more than a review in Hip Hop Weekly is invalid as a source supporting the notability of a Hip Hop musician. Forgive me, I know that patience is a Christian virtue, but there is tendency on the part of some non-religious editors to lose all sense of perspective when confronted with articles about Gospel musicians. I continue to feel that the many sources I have adduced above more than suffice to support the notability of this minor performer/recording artist/worship leader whose career peaked ~2000 and notability included, but was not limited to, the band Sonicflood which was a bit of a big deal at the time. We all need to try harder to assess articles notability objectively.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:13, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• As I've already stated, it was a promo of his album. So, it cannot be used to prove his notability. - NitinMlk (talk) 18:24, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Despite the fact that CBN likes the album, the singer, and the idea of singers recording this type of song, BCBN is an WP:INDEPENDENT source, a broadcast network publishing an article about a new album.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:31, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• This and several sources mentioned earlier in this discussion are sufficient to meet WP:MUSICBIO.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:39, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.