The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 03:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was asked at DRV to provide a closing rationale. I apologise for not doing this sooner but I have been away for a few days and wasn't approached about the close or notified about the DRV until later. In essence this is a classic case of where WP:CONSENSUS isn't the same as counting snouts on each side. There is widespread acceptance that spa voters and non-policy based arguments get very little weight in closes compared to opinions from established users who cite policy based arguments and unlike many recent AFD discussions this one was graced with contributions from a number of experienced editors who expressed concern about the lack of reliable sourcing and the view that the subject hadn't passed V or RS or BIO. Looking through the keep arguments there is an assertion that AVN is a reliable source but this contention isn't widely accepted by participants - which I can understand given issues with fact checking and regurgitation of press releases being frequently cited in the past to argue that AVN is neither peer/fact checked nor independant. Otherwise arguments about the number of films, contarcts signed, appearances on Howard Stern or who she married are not arguments grounded in any policy and were discarded. This leaves one opinion that this meets PORNBIO by multiple AVN award nominations but the actual nominations are group rather then individual catagories and it is not clear that this counts in the same way that a headline nomination would do so. Certainly the arguments about awards cut no ice at all with the majority of experienced editors and in closing I found their arguments to be well grounded in core site policy around the requirement to source articles of living persons. There clearly had been an extensive search for sources including *ahem* some off-line examination of magazines so I believe it is a reasonable assumption that there are no suitable sources for this article. Since sub-guidelines are supposed to be an indication of the liklihood of sources existing as the clear indication is that they do not I believe that it is right to discount the PORNBIO argument and go with the BIO/V/RS arguments. Spartaz Humbug! 13:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Monika Star[edit]

Monika Star (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Although many sources are listed, all but two of them are press releases (i.e. not independent). The other two are IMDB and a single AVN article about the launch of the subject's web site. I don't feel it passes WP:GNG. There was a claim (I removed it) that the subject had won a major award, which would squeak it by WP:PORNBIO but the source listed did not mention the award at all. The lead mentions the subject being a columnist but the text says nothing of this. Dismas|(talk) 20:59, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep-Absolutely one of the biggest porn stars to ever come from europe. She has been on Howard Stern show 7 times and is a favorite. 1. Let's start here: [1] - The best of Karina. Over 35 scenes from 22 movies. This alone sets her apart.

2. She was a sin city CONTRACT GIRL: A rare happening. She was signed exclusively by Scott Stein:[2] Her own collection with Sin City. She is one of only 11 girls ever to sign such a deal.

3.Sin City's Director of Marketing, Scott Stein offered, "We are very lucky to have signed Karina. Super Stardom is imminent. Karina is every bit as nasty - as she is beautiful. Oh ... and those genes - we couldn't be happier!" Sin City is promising to release additional information on the Blonde Bombshell at an upcoming "Adult Industry Only" luncheon. Details to follow shortly. For additional information on Karina, the upcoming luncheon or Sin City Entertainment contact Scott Stein @ 818.407.9990 / 310.837.5069 or e-mail at SMS10@PacBell.net.[3]

4.Karina on Howard Stern and on E Channel:Source: Sin City Entertainment by: Company Press Release (LAS VEGAS, NV) -- Sin City Entertainment is pleased to announce that their Exclusive Contract Performer, Karina, will be appearing on the Howard Stern Radio Show - Again - for an unprecedented - Three consecutive days. The shows will be taped from Las Vegas' Hard Rock Hotel during the week of April 21st. Never before has an Adult Film Star appeared on the Stern Show in such a fashion.

Karina first appeared on the Stern Show on March 13 in their New York studio. At that time, Stern was so taken with the Finnish Beauty that talks to rebook her began immediately. "Everyone at the show was very impressed by her beauty, as well as, her carefree yet professional demeanor. This is evidenced by her repeat appearance. No one can recall when an adult entertainer has been asked to be on the air for three consecutive days." explained Sin City's Scott Stein.

The premise of this appearance is similar to last month's, in as much as, listeners may have an opportunity to take Karina out on a very special date. The catch? In keeping with the Las Vegas theme - the listeners will have to win a hand of blackjack before given the opportunity. Karina will also be attending several of the parties and functions that the Stern Show has arranged for the week.

"I just loved Howard and everyone with the show. They all made me feel very welcome and I am so excited to take part in their remote from Las Vegas. Las Vegas is a very naughty city and I suspect that I'll add to that," cooed Karina.

The radio show will be taping the evenings of the 22nd, 23rd & 24th and will be broadcast the following mornings. Dates for the show's broadcast on the E! Channel will be announced at a later date. Karina can currently be seen in Sin City's Island Rain, Love Letters. Kiss & Tell, Surfer Girl, Riptide and Dreamgirls. For additional images of Karina, visit SinCity.com and for additional information on Sin City Entertainment or Karina, please contact Kylie Ireland at Kylie@SinCity.com or call 818.407.9990. [4]

5. New Website for Sin City Karina: May 11, 2004 12:00am Karina Launches her Official Site KarinaVIP.com Source: TheIndustryVoice.com by: Chef Jeff "She's the prototypical blonde bombshell, the embodiment of pure Scandinavian beauty and sex appeal, Karina is the best!" - Chef Jeff, Editor, TheIndustryVoice.com

Former Sin City contract porn star, Karina, announced today the launched of her official web site, KarinaVIP.com. The launch of the site coincides with Karina's scheduled appearance this week on the Howard Stern Show, which is broadcasting from the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas.

"I can't tell you how excited I am to finally have my web site up and running!" Said Karina, "I plan to be spending the majority of my time working on the web site, my fans will love it, I am totally committed to this."

Karina will keep an office and studio in Los Angeles where her web site will be run from. "My live cam shows should be starting within the next 30 days. I will have live events featuring other hot porn stars as well as my own weekly live cam shows!"

Karina also wants porn producers to know that her studio will be available for rent as a shooting location. For more information please email KarinaStudio@KarinaVIP.com

Karina is scheduled to appear on the Howard Stern Show Wednesday May [12th.http://ainews.com/Archives/Story6732.phtml]

6. Karina, The Sin City Contract Girl - Mike South [5] By MikeSouth January 27th, 2009 Tom Writes:

Hey man, whatever happened to the old Sin City contract girl, Karina? I always thought she was sexy as hell and she was one of the few real squirters to ever do porn.

I heard she is living in Atlanta now so I thought you might know.

Matter of fact Tom....I do know. Yes she lives here now and she and I have been friends for ages. She recently decided to start doing more stuff in porn and has opened her own store at clips4sale. I have been shooting the content for it for her. Heres a few recent pics from those shoots.[6]

7.Karina Sinclair - former Sin City contract girl, SWEET as a hive-full-of-honey- See bottom of page with Pic with Lindsey Lovehands: [[7]]

8. KARINA SINCLAIR: NEW YORK: SEPT 29-30 ATLANTA: AVAILABLE NOW This former Sin City Contract Girl has it all! Brains and Beauty, not to mention some incredibly amazing talents that simply drive most of the male population crazy. This Finnish Goddess not only holds an MBA Degree, but holds her own in any social or private environment! Fun, Interesting, Sexy, Charming, Smart, and did we mention talented?? We did, we did! Call to schedule your appointment to spend time with this Blonde Bombshell and find out what all the talk is about! . Visit our website BodyMiracle.com at and fill out the Appointment Request Form NOW.[8]

9. Sin City had an interesting month with their new contract girl Karina Kean. Their first press release announced that the company had signed the younger sister of hot star Katja Kean. Just days later, Sin City released a second press release announcing that they had been duped by Karina's agent. It was discovered that is not the younger sibling of the former Sin City girl. Sin City's Director of Marketing, Scott Stein responded to the faux pas, "This situation is obviously something that we're taking very seriously. The documents presented to Sin City, in reference to Karina's identity appeared to be legitimate. I'd personally like to thank everyone for their e-mails and telephone calls alerting me of the deception. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens quite often - even the ages of professional baseball players have been falsified. We are debating legal action against the person who apparently falsified the documents; however, proving that a specific person is accountable may be difficult to prove." As for Karina? "We are one thousand percent convinced that Karina had no knowledge of the misinformation. She, as well as, Sin City - were victims. She was under the impression that her name was simply being changed. We are still committed to having her serve as a representative of Sin City and are convinced that she will be a huge star," explained Stein. Apparently Karina has something even more interesting than a porn bloodline, a link to a celebrity athlete. Stein concluded, "The irony of everything that just happened is - that Karina's true story is even more sensational. The fact that she has a legitimate connection to the National Football League will prove to be more interesting than being a younger sibling to a former adult star. We will be holding a Press Conference shortly to offer more details on this episode, as well as, Karina's real NFL story." The NFL story? OH yA--- Her brother in law Sean Salisbury and was married to Brett Salisbury Karina's name? Isa Salisbury. - Need we prove any more? I can go on and on...Somebody help me. She is a huge megastar. No question. KEEP! WANT PROOF? GO HERE:[9] Then look who lived in the same city in the same house...be sure to scroll down to famous residents section on wikipedia: Notable people from or who currently live in Douglasville This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (February 2011) [10]

Mike Tolbert - Professional football player for the San Diego Chargers, graduated Douglas County High School. Spencer Scott, Playboy Playmate of the Month for October, 2007 Mario West - Professional basketball player for the Atlanta Hawks, graduated Douglas County High School. Matt Capps - Professional baseball player for the Washington Nationals,played for the Pittsburgh Pirates, graduated from Alexander High School Alexandréa Lushington - American Idol (season 7), Top 24 Contestant, graduated class of 2009 from Douglas County High School. Walton Goggins - Professional Actor who stars in FX's The Shield Kasha Terry - Professional basketball player for the Atlanta Dream (WNBA), graduated from Douglas County High School. Brett Salisbury - College football quarterback ex wife is Monika Star Dave Williams - Professional baseball pitcher, currently lives in Douglasville Elana Meyers - Bronze medal winner for the U.S in the 2010 Winter Olympics and Silver medal winner in the 2009 World Championships Ricky Dobbs - Naval Academy Quarterback/ Record holder for touchdowns by Quarterback, graduated Douglas County High School 

Brett Salisbury. Simply go here to put it all together: [11] CASE CLOSED. KEEP ABSOLUTE. SUPERSTAR

10. AND jUST FOR FUN? GO HERE: SCROLL DOWN ALL WAY- greatest living casanovas: "The one guy on this list your missing? a celebrity who has slept with over 2000 women. I should know, I dated him. Mr. Brett Salisbury, the ex-BYU Quarterback only kicked out due to pre-marital sex. If you think his famous brother [Sean Salisbury]is bad? Think again. No Sean doesn’t have Brett’s looks or “size,” but both of these brothers are quite a team and Brett was a top male model. Mr. Brett Salisbury ex wife is a now a famous porn star (Karina Sinclair). He has had more one night stands that Rod Stewart. That’s saying a lot. His website is http://www.TransformDiet.com and he is smooth and good looking. He also uses it to his advantage. Goodluck ladies. He is all yours. You control him? You control a “Tiger.” If he ever does become more famous, he will own Charlie Sheen. Sorry Brett for throwing you under the bus…It’s the least I could do." -Rebecca Desmet Editor in Chief AVN. [12] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radio29 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You addressed exactly zero points of my argument. It's no use copy/pasting what the press releases cited in the article say, or what people in forums or blogs say. In order to be kept, this article needs independent and reliable third party sources. The AFD discussion is not based on whether she exists or not, it's based on whether she is notable per any one of our notability guidelines. For those, you can see WP:GNG, WP:PORNBIO, WP:ENTERTAINER, etc. I see nothing in the article or outside of it that makes me think that she is notable. Dismas|(talk) 22:05, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep-The MOVIES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. YOU CANNOT DENY 51 MOVIES AND ONLY ONE OF 11 WOMEN IN THE WORLD TO EVER BE SIGNED AS A SIN CITY CONTRACT GIRL. SORRY YOU LOSE. Also LOOK WHO SHE WAS MARRIED TO AND HER BROTHER IN LAW? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? She is more notable than any porn star from Europe. Should we call Howard Stern and ask him? Call him, no copy and pasting...call him now, ask him just how "Notable" Karina is: - Stern Show Call In Number (888) STERN-100 - Howard 100/101 Call In Number (Wrap Up Show, Superfan Roundtable and other call in shows) SternShow@HowardStern.com - E-mail Address Stern Show Address SIRIUS 36th Floor Attn: The Howard Stern Show - Studio 69 1221 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10020 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.98.165 (talk) 22:12, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You still don't understand and it seems as though you haven't read a single guideline that I've posted a link to.
  • The sheer number of films doesn't matter. (not to mention the fact that many of those listed at IAFD are listed as "compilations" which could include scenes from other movies and not original content) There are many actors at IMDB and other databases that have many credits but that doesn't mean they're notable. Same story here.
  • Who she was married to doesn't matter here. Which, by the way, you haven't proven with any sort of reliable sources. Notability wouldn't necessarily be inherited. See WP:INHERITED for more on that... though I doubt you'll read that either.
  • I don't need or want to call Stern. He's had thousands of people on his show and not every one of them is notable.
  • And finally, you still have not shown where the subject has been written about in multiple independent and reliable sources. Dismas|(talk) 22:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Adult Industry News is nothing but company press releases to a blog. Which leaves this article with nada in terms of sourcing. Carrite (talk) 06:24, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
When one does "come and see Wikipedia," one brings with them two or better yet three pieces of significant independent coverage of the article subject or one is apt to quickly find oneself running afoul of WP:Notability at Articles for Deletion. So, let's stop cheerleading for this world heralded mondo mega superstar of porn and start coming up with those three sources, shall we? Last I checked, merely appearing in 300 fuck flicks doesn't open the gate... Carrite (talk) 03:43, 14 May 2011 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 03:46, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(Redacted a statement with a couple of unacceptable personal attacks.)--Floquenbeam (talk) 19:22, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Howard Stern will have any woman on his show who is willing to strip. PornWikiLeaks is yet another unreliable source. AVN would count as independent and reliable but so far all you've shown is press releases and databases. If being a contract girl for Sin City is so rare, then someone (who she wasn't paying for the story) must have written about her somewhere. You keep making claims but don't back it up with anything reliable/verifiable/independent. The way you make it sound, she should be as notable as Jenna Haze, Belladonna, or Nikki Dial but they all have independent sources. Dismas|(talk) 08:07, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(Redacted another comment with numerous personal attacks. I've had enough of your disruption; do this again and I will block you.)--Floquenbeam (talk) 19:27, 14 May 2011 (UTC) keep AVN Insider, Fresh off the bus with Monika Star by writer Wayne Hentai: [14][reply]

2. Joey Silvera AVN News on "Superstar" Monika Star.[15]

3. Almost looks like Monika Star is being "black balled" in the industry. Here again, every star in this movie from Craven Moorehead has a wikipedia page. EVERY STAR except Karina aka Monika Star?[16] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.98.165 (talk) 13:22, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:31, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:32, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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