The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is a tendency to dismiss sources for being WP:OSO. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:33, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ruth Clark[edit]

Ruth Clark (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:ANYBIO, WP:AUTHOR and WP:BASIC. PROD was removed with the comment that Clark meets point 2. of WP:AUTHOR "The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique." but the book is "Camp Fire Training for Girls" and I'm pretty sure there's nothing new in terms of concept, theory or technique about girls lighting campfires. -- HighKing⁺⁺ 13:36, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To what end are you targeting Scouting and peripheral articles? Are you now going to put all of these up for deletion? What is the obsession for you?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:34, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No proof that this author or her book originated some significant new thing. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:43, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. Surely her claim to notability is not about that book, but as it says in the first sentence, "was the author of the first woodcraft book for girls and co-founder of the Kibbo Kift". I think we all need to read the book before deciding that it is about lighting campfires. The Kibbo Kift was an important youth organisation that eventually became the Woodcraft Folk. I recall seeing a new book on the Kibbo Kift earlier this year, so we need to see what that says about Ruth Clark. So I do not think that this AfD should be rushed over the holiday season for most of us. For example, I am "out bush" with a poor internet connection and a long way from a library that might have either book. --Bduke (Discussion) 20:25, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - No sign of significant notability that meets Wikipedia's guidelines. Speedy deletion. Scorpion293 (talk) 20:56, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The last thing we should be considering over the holiday period is speedy deletion. The article on Kibbo Kift says that Ruth Clark "led a Camp Fire Girls group at the Garden School run by the Theosophical Educational Trust in St John’s Wood". The book "Camp Fire Training for Girls" is therefore most likely to be about woodcraft and not lighting camp fires. The book I mention above, I think, is the one that is the first reference in the article on Kibbo Kift. This should be studied by someone to see what it says about her. I am 150 km from a decent library or bookshop so I can not do that. So, keep for now and not rush things over the Christmas/New year period. --Bduke (Discussion) 02:38, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete no sign that her work is actually notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:47, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Bduke's rationale given nom's questionable timing, and because it passes Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Creative_professionals point 2, namely that it was not singular, but rare enough 100 years ago, to have girls in on the whole outdoors movement.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:34, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I have ordered the book on the Kibbo Kift and will read it and report back when I receive it. If it says anything about Ruth Clark, it will be a good source as it is clearly a scholarly book independent of the organisation and the people involved. --Bduke (Discussion) 20:50, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The reference that is now on the woodcraft book, makes it clear that it is a significant book on woodcraft and not a book about lighting camp fires. I think this is now a clear keep. I will still add material from the book when it arrives. --Bduke (Discussion) 20:40, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 07:12, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 07:12, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 07:12, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Co-founder of a notable organisation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:09, 11 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Although the article states she was a co-founder, the source does not back up the statement and the Kibbo Kift article does not list Clark as a founder. Other sources naming her as a co-founder appear to have taken their content from Wikipedia. -- HighKing⁺⁺ 16:17, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I ran her name through books google search. She shows up very well in period periodicals. But also in books about the period, of which I just added one to the article. Beware of WP:SYSTEMIC bias towards Presentism.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:04, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.