The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Original Concept. History retained. (non-admin closure) Lourdes 03:28, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

T-Money (rapper)[edit]

T-Money (rapper) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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According to the article, "T-Money (born Tyrone Kelsie, January 4, year withheld) is an American rapper who was one of the leading pioneers in the rap industry with the group Original Concept. He was a vital player in the evolution of hip hop as one of the original innovators of the sound and the scene, extending into the modern rap genre."

If this is true, then he should have an article much before 2016. And he is not in the news which makes it fail WP:NMUSIC. Marvellous Spider-Man 10:39, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 02:00, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• delete Smells like a hoax. I don't believe any of the sources - David Gerard (talk) 17:12, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Past member of Original Concept? "T-Money - went on to become another host for Yo! MTV Raps."(not cited, though)※〶 10:48, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Not a hoax. There are plenty of sources out there that verify not only that he exists but that he meets WP:NMUSICIAN. that he exists. These include the following: [1] [2] [3] [4] Everymorning (talk) 11:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Your first and third mentions aren't cites, and the other two are passing mentions that he worked on Yo MTV Raps. That doesn't pass WP:MUSBIO. Or WP:BLP - remember, for a BLP we need the actual sources right there in the article for it to be kept - David Gerard (talk) 11:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Although the sources I listed clearly establish that he exists and that most (if not all) of the contents of the article are true, I have since changed my mind and concluded they don't establish notability per the guidelines cited above, as they don't provide significant coverage of him. Accordingly, I have stricken and rewritten my original keep vote and now think this page should be redirected to Original Concept. Everymorning (talk) 12:18, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Original Concept. Verifiable [5], even if he doesn't qualify for his own entry under WP:MUSBIO. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:42, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I'm going to reach out to this first-time editor and see if we can get the article in slightly better shape. Right now it has some problems that are pretty standard for those new to WP (original research, referencing, peacock language), but also quite a few print sources on a pre-internet topic, which we need more of. It'd be a shame to lose them if the subject turns out to be notable. Will check back into AfD with an update in a couple days either way. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:07, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update to say I'm in touch with the editor and have explained why the interview (basis for much of entry) doesn't work as a WP source. Have requested ed cut back to just what's confirmed in reliable sources, and add any other sources s/he may have, so we can get a better picture on whether this is a keep, merge, redirect if not much left to merge, etc. Ed replied promptly so I'm hopeful we may have progress in a few days, would appreciate AfD staying open a bit longer to give new ed chance to get a handle on this. (My view's informed by my sense that the article actually is deeply researched and very likely accurate--the problem is just that it's original research. Might do better published in a secondary source we could then cite! But I don't think we need to worry about disseminating incorrect information by leaving it up a few extra days.) Thanks all. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:16, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect and preserve edit history. Sorry to say I haven't heard further from ed, and I can't tell on my own how much of the entry really comes from the print sources listed, or if those are just trivial mentions and the entry was basically filled out with the editor's own interview of the subject, which certainly doesn't go to notability, and would largely (entirely?) need to be cut from a BLP. I'm not sure the subject isn't notable, but in absence of proof he is, I think redirecting is the right call. Certainly if editor or others come back to work on it and can provide more sources, then great. Working with Dr. Dre and MTV on hiphop in the '80s is potentially a very important piece of music history; we just need the WP account of it to meet verifiability standards. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:00, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.