July 20
Category:Peruvian Regions with a population of over 1 million
Category:Ajitha Hemaratne
Category:Ghost in the Shell locations
Category:Music from Manchester, England to Category:Music from Manchester
Category:Hindu nationalist historians
Category:Golf Course in Klang Valley to Category:Golf clubs and courses in Klang Valley
Category:Potential Amtrak Routes
Think tanks by country
Entertainers by age at death
Category:Christian30 Covergirls
and
Category:Christian30 Networks
Category:Charles Roberts award winners to Category:Charles S. Roberts Award winners
WikiProject participants
- The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was no consensus --Kbdank71 14:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Per the conversation, albeit short conversation, here, these categories are up for renaming. Please help me find others and add them to the list. As I was tagging these I found out about a template for WikiProject participants to use which automatically generates categories, however, over a half of these were tagged before I found out about it. Hopefully the template can be changed to reflect this new naming convention, which will hopefully be set with this cfr. Thank you.
—Lady Aleena talk/contribs 00:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Category:Participants in WikiProjects to Category:WikiProject participants
Category:WikiProject Anglicanism members to Category:WikiProject Anglicanism participants
Category:WikiProject Australian sports Members to Category:WikiProject Australian sports participants
Category:WikiProject Avatar: The Last Airbender members to Category:WikiProject Avatar: The Last Airbender participants
- Category:WikiProject Blackadder Members to Category:WikiProject Blackadder members
Category:WikiProject British TV shows members to Category:WikiProject British TV shows participants
- Category:User WikiProject Business Economics to Category:WikiProject Business Economics participants
Category:WikiProject Catholicism members to Category:WikiProject Catholicism participants
- Category:WikiProject Cats Members to Category:WikiProject Cats members
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Chemistry to Category:WikiProject Chemistry participants
- Category:WikiProject Colorado Members to Category:WikiProject Colorado members
Category:WikiProject Computer and video games members to Category:WikiProject Computer and video games participants
- Category:WikiProject Contract bridge to Category:WikiProject Contract bridge participants
- Category:WikiProject Cycling Members to Category:WikiProject Cycling members
- Category:WikiProject Dad's Army Members to Category:WikiProject Dad's Army members
- Category:WikiProject Doctor Who Members to Category:WikiProject Doctor Who members
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Education in Canada to Category:WikiProject Education in Canada members
- Category:Members of WikiProject Ethiopia to Category:WikiProject Ethiopia members
- Category:Users involved with WikiProject FBI to Category:WikiProject FBI participants
Category:WikiProject Fascism members to Category:WikiProject Fascism participants
- Category:WikiProject Fawlty Towers Members to Category:WikiProject Fawlty Towers members
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Films to Category:WikiProject Films participants
Category:WikiProject Final Fantasy members to Category:WikiProject Final Fantasy participants
- Category:User FY to Category:WikiProject Former Yugoslavia participants
Category:WikiProject Graffiti members to Category:WikiProject Graffiti participants
- Category:WikiProject Hindu mythology Members to Category:WikiProject Hindu mythology members
- Category:WikiProject Hinduism Members to Category:WikiProject Hinduism members
Category:WikiProject Hip Hop members to Category:WikiProject Hip Hop participants
- Category:WikiProject Hitchhikier's Guide to the Galaxy Members to Category:WikiProject Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy members
Comment: Sorry to butt in the middle of this list, but this one should be renamed just to fix the typo. It's the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. --JohnDBuell 02:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Category:WikiProject Horror members to Category:WikiProject Horror participants
Category:WikiProject Inheritance Trilogy members to Category:WikiProject Inheritance Trilogy participants
Category:WikiProject International development members to Category:WikiProject International development participants
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Jazz to Category:WikiProject Jazz participants
- Category:Users of WikiProject Lakes to Category:WikiProject Lakes participants
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Linkification to Category:WikiProject Linkification participants
- Category:WikiProject Louisville Members to Category:WikiProject Louisville members
Category:WikiProject Macintosh members to Category:WikiProject Macintosh participants
Category:WikiProject Magic: The Gathering members to Category:WikiProject Magic: The Gathering participants
- Category:WikiProject Mars Spacecraft to Category:WikiProject Mars Spacecraft participants
- Category:Members of Team Peerage to Category:WikiProject Peerage members
- Category:WikiProject Montenegro Member to Category:WikiProject Montenegro members
Category:WikiProject MusicBrainz members to Category:WikiProject MusicBrainz participants
- Category:WikiProject NBL Member to Category:WikiProject NBL members
- Category:NC State Routes WikiProject Members to Category:WikiProject North Carolina State Highways members
Category:WikiProject National Health Service members to Category:WikiProject National Health Service participants
- Category:New Jersey State and County Routes WikiProject Members to Category:WikiProject New Jersey State and County Routes members
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Opera to Category:WikiProject Opera participants
- Category:Participants in WikiProject EastEnders to Category:WikiProject EastEnders participants
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities to Category:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities participants
- Category:Wikiproject Perth Member to Category:WikiProject Perth members
Category:WikiProject Philadelphia members to Category:WikiProject Philadelphia participants
- Category:WikiProject Physics Members to Category:WikiProject Physics members
- Category:WikiProject Politics Members to Category:WikiProject Politics members
- Category:Members of Project Presidents to Category:WikiProject U.S. Presidents members
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Protected areas to Category:WikiProject Protected areas participants
Category:Queen WikiProject members to Category:WikiProject Queen participants
- Category:WikiProject Running Members to Category:WikiProject Running members
Category:WikiProject Saints members to Category:WikiProject Saints participants
Category:WikiProject Scouting members to Category:WikiProject Scouting participants
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Seattle to Category:WikiProject Seattle participants
- Category:User WPSerbia to Category:WikiProject Serbia participants
- Category:Participants of WikiProject Soil to Category:WikiProject Soil participants
- Category:Members of WikiProject Soviet Union to Category:WikiProject Soviet Union members
- Category:WikiProject Star Trek Members to Category:WikiProject Star Trek members
Category:WikiProject Star Wars members to Category:WikiProject Star Wars participants
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Stargate to Category:WikiProject Stargate participants
- Category:Members of WikiProject Utah to Category:WikiProject Utah members
- Category:Wikiproject Vancouver Member to Category:WikiProject Vancouver members
- Category:Participants in WikiProject Voting systems to Category:WikiProject Voting systems participants
- Category:Washington State Highways WikiProject Members to Category:WikiProject Washington State Highways members
Category:WikiProject Webcomics members to Category:WikiProject Webcomics participants
Category:WikiProject Michigan members to Category:WikiProject Michigan participants
- Category:WikiProject Transformers Members to Category:WikiProject Transformers members
- Category:Members of WikiProject Yemen to Category:WikiProject Yemen members
- Category:WikiProject Zoroastrianism Members to Category:WikiProject Zoroastrianism members
These I put up in Speedy as a capitalization fix, but they are now here in the general pool. - LA @ 06:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Category:WikiProject Archaeology Participants to Category:WikiProject Archaeology participants
- Category:WikiProject Architecture Participants to Category:WikiProject Architecture participants
- Category:WikiProject Arts Participants to Category:WikiProject Arts participants
- Category:WikiProject Hersheypark Participants to Category:WikiProject Hersheypark participants
- Category:WikiProject Martial Arts Participants to Category:WikiProject Martial Arts participants
- Category:WikiProject Novels Participants to Category:WikiProject Novels participants
- Category:WikiProject Sports Olympics Participants to Category:WikiProject Sports Olympics participants
- Category:WikiProject Roller Coasters Participants to Category:WikiProject Roller Coasters participants
- Category:WikiProject Television Participants to Category:WikiProject Television participants
- Category:WikiProject U.S. Roads Participants to Category:WikiProject U.S. Roads participants
WikiProject participants discussion[edit]
- STRONG OPPOSE this mass tagging was brought up a mere 3 days ago and decided by merely 3 people who didn't bother to notify the projects. I think the projects should be free to name their own cats how ever they wish. So what if they're different? This is not for some 3-person oligarchy to decide, it's for the projects themselves to decide. Rlevse 00:49, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose in the case of Scouting. As organized youth movements, one is a member, not a participant. Chris 00:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Suggestion. Allow 4 options: WikiProject X participants, WikiProject X members, Participants in WikiProject X, and Members of WikiProject X. --Usgnus 01:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree per nom. Look at the Chemistry and Physics ones. Quite different. There should be uniformity and it really does not matter what uniformity. --Bduke 01:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose at least on the part of WikiProject Catholicism. We have members, not participants. As for others, go by what they use on their main page. If the page says members, use members. If it says participants, use participants. —Mira 01:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC) Changing to support, see compromise section below. —Mira 22:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose trying to apply strict one-cat-fits-most description; I would strongly support having several options, such as what Usgnus suggested. --Stephane Charette 01:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose per Rlevse, but also, it should be the project's choice and it really isn't worth all the trouble to change it from member to participant, because they are just about the same thing. Don't get all techinical either, with the member means blah blah blah and participant means blah blah blah because in the end it really should be the project's choice. Darthgriz98 01:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose This should be an RfC anyway, not a CfD. --JohnDBuell 01:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support This is an encyclopedia, and consistency is important even in cases like this. I personally don't care if its "participants" or "members", but all the categories should follow the same naming convention. --musicpvm 03:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Qualified support The WikiProject template uses "participants," and I think consistency is important. Having said that, I think "members" is a more accurate description than "participants." All who participate in a WikiProject are members, but not all who are members participate. Fishhead64 03:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose Consistency in categorizations in the Wikipedia space, in comparison with the Main space, isn't really that important, as most mainstream users won't ever notice them anyway. Further, this change is pretty much splitting hairs... members or participants... seems like a lot of work to make almost no change. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work 05:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. I'd be willing to be part of the four-person oligarchy. :^) --Mike Selinker 06:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I Oppose force-fitting all "member" vs. "participant" descriptions into one "participant" mold. I'll confess in advance that I have far too many other things to do than to read all the deliberations and rationales that led to this dust-up, but at first AND second glance it looks like silly busywork, distracting many innocent people and sucking up their valuable cycles without adding real value. I believe I wrote in another debate once upon a time that most Wikipedia users are not power users, and the mass of overlapping wiki classification systems such as "categories" is alien, unusable, and irrelevant to anyone but a power user. So now, to that tiny minority who in a previous life argued over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, I say: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." (Emerson) OTOH, I'd support the sponsors if they settled for the rational consistency of simply re-ordering the words in cat titles such that, if the title includes "Wikiproject" and project_name, "Wikiproject" is the first word. (Or else project_name is first. Either method has equally good benefits. Pick one and apply to all.) --Kkken 06:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Mild support. While it's not so relevant to be maintained for user-space, consistency is generall A Good Thing. I fail to see a big deal in "member" vs. "participant" naming. Thus, I'm of the same opinion as User:Stevietheman, but I'll support provided someone else does the job :-). Duja 07:09, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Currently, Category:Participants in WikiProjects is impossible to usefully navigate, due to the lack of naming consistency. It does take some work, sure, but the problem will only grow worse, and the task larger, the longer we let this pink elephant sit in the corner. I say deal with it now, so we can rest easy in the future. I'd be fine with allowing for "Wikiproject (NAME) (participants/members)," but that's probably the only inconsistency I'm supporting. At the very least, we need to get rid of all these "Participants in Wikiproject" and "Name Wikiproject" and other such sore thumbs. Luna Santin 07:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Responses by LA @ 09:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I only allowed three days of discussion in naming conventions, but after reading the few responses I got, I acted on my own and was being bold.
- I have been accused of not giving the projects notice, a CfR IS notice.
- The problem with different naming styles is the fact that they are hard to read, strain the eye, and make the parent category of all WikiProject particpant categories look messy.
- A CfR is a lot stronger than a RfC. I have put something on RfC and gotten so few responses that I don't feel RfC is worth it. A CfR on the other hand gets a lot more attention, which is what these categories desperately need.
- Fishhead64 said "All who participate in a WikiProject are members, but not all who are members participate." Shouldn't participation be stressed? Why be part of a WikiProject without participating in it, even if it is behind the scenes cleaning up articles, creating templates, and other general maintenance?
- Kkken, this may seem to be busywork since it is not part of the article name space, however, this area is where I feel most comfortable. I may have been one who argued over the angles standing on the head of a pin, but it seems that it would probably be a fun arguement.
- This is also to help with the creation of templates. If we have a firm naming convention that is the same for all of these categories, it will take a few moments less time to think of a name for this type of category in future WikiProjects.
- Support I agree that standardisation is a desirable feature of Wikipedia even if it is 'behind the scenes'. --Mcginnly 11:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Split vote in favour of making the sore thumb changes as a first step, that is: a consistent sequence of words, starting "WikiProject"; and using lower case for "members/participants/whatever". Against standardising members/participants/whatever at the same time, since we can take that up as a separate debate about the merits of options. --Mereda 09:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I just don't get it - why is user space such a BIG deal - I can understand the need for consistency across articles and across article categories, but why do so many people want to mold user space to fit what THEY think is necessary? This isn't the only time this calendar year that something like this has come up, and caused a debate to both sides. --JohnDBuell 11:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose this proposal, but would support a more flexible naming scheme of the form "WikiProject Foo [members/participants]" as per the project's own choice. Standard naming is important, but not so important here that it's worth stepping on the projects' toes in a major way. Kirill Lokshin 12:56, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
CommentJohndBuell hit it on the head--this is another case of what is epidemic on Wiki, a few people determing what they think the masses need. Like a few months ago when some category person decided that it's okay for him to decide that having abbreviation ABC in a cat name is okay but not abbrev XYZ when both were equally obscure. I do agree that the cats with things like a captial 'M' in Members, 'Participants in....', etc need fixed. The problem with the way this came is lack of notice and people don't have time to read all the behind-the-scenes stuff on wiki. It doesn't matter how active a member is, they're still a member. As for template making, we make our own. Projects still should be able to pick their own category names. Rlevse 13:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Rename all Inconsistency makes Wikipedia look amateurish. Landolitan 19:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- CommentWhat makes Wiki amateurish is stupid debates, 2-sentence articles stubs and most of all the vandals and the time spent fighting the vandals. It is not the cat names that do that.Rlevse 22:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- CommentIf such were the case, they should be members, not participants. Rlevse 22:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose renaming Strains the eyes? Within the Wikipedia namespace, this is unnecessary and unwanted by several people using the cats. Ziggurat 21:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose dislike new names. Matthew Fenton (contribs) 21:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment How am I to create the following with that mess above? It won't work with each project having its own name for the participant category. It would go from 1-10 fields to fill in to 2-20. The following would not only create a small console for users, it would categorize them as well, killing two birds with one stone. - LA @ 02:09, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
{|
|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP1))}|(({WP1))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP1))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP2|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP2))}|(({WP2))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP2))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP3|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP3))}|(({WP3))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP3))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP4|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP4))}|(({WP4))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP4))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP5|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP5))}|(({WP5))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP5))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP6|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP6))}|(({WP6))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP6))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP7|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP7))}|(({WP7))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP7))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP8|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP8))}|(({WP8))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP8))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP9|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP9))}|(({WP9))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP9))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
((#if:(({WP10|))}|*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject (({WP10))}|(({WP10))}]] [[Category:WikiProject (({WP10))} participants|((PAGENAME))]]))
|}
((Infobox Multiprojectbox
|WP1=
|WP2=
|WP3=
|WP4=
|WP5=
|WP6=
|WP7=
|WP8=
|WP9=
|WP10=
))
- Err, you do realize that (almost) every project has its own userboxes anyways? I've never understood the need for the generic userbox to begin with; but we certainly shouldn't change everything else if the only reason is to make that easier. Kirill Lokshin 05:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- What about those who do not want their user pages cluttered with userboxes, but would use the above because it gives them useful links to their projects in a small little box that includes all of their projects and also categorizes them? It would make it really easy for people to get things done faster on their user pages, instead of having to search high and low for their projects' userboxes and/or their projects' participant category. - LA @ 06:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- That's no reason to make life difficult for the projects, though. Anyone who wants to do something unusual with their userpage can figure it out on their own; there's no need to force everyone else to change things just for the benefit of creating another convoluted userpage template. Kirill Lokshin 07:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. These are not in the main namespace, and I don't see that the need for consistency is so great. I do, however, support, have "Wikiproject" as the first word for all these categories in order to make it abundantly clear that they are not "normal" categories. Beyond that, however, I think the various wikiprojects should be free to name their categories however they see them to be the most useful/beneficial. siafu 05:46, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Oppose. Wikiprojects name themselves, so why can't they name their member categories? --Tim4christ17 02:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Furthur comment WikiProjects are always named Wikipedia:WikiProject (name). So, they do follow a naming convention for the name of their projects. Now, what is the problem with taking that a step further and have the participant categories have the same name structure? There is also a reason I chose the word participant over the word member. I was trying to remove the snicker factor, especially with some projects. I thought this was a no brainer and expected this much resistance from this group nomination top filled with fans, yet those fandom categories were renamed without so much as a whimper. - LA @ 11:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Furthur commentSo what if the other nom went without a whimper? If you can't see why all the opposition to this one, you need to put on your thinking cap again. This shows a basic problem endemic to Wikipedia--a small handful deciding what they think is best for the masses. The projects should be able to decide they own MEMBER names. If some are call themselves members and others participants, what is the big deal? So what. Rlevse 12:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Compromise on WikiProject participants[edit]
As a few others said they wouldn't have a problem with WikiProject (name) (participants/members). I have striken those which already follow that suggestion. The others have been modified on this page only to reflect what the title had in originally with a capitalization or word order fix. Those in bold had neither member nor participant in their title, so participant is being used. I hope this meets with the general approval of all of those who are opposed to this CfD. It is the first step in making the parent category less of an eyesore. - LA @ 00:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- With this change, I am changing to support. —Mira 22:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I can live with this compromise too.Rlevse 22:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.