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Evidence presented by {your user name}[edit]

<day1> <month>

<day2> <month>

Evidence presented by User:Zen-master[edit]

The neutrality dispute over race and intelligence and related articles is complex and multi-layered. I allege a handful of "pro" editors repeatedly: use psychologically subtle and tricky non neutral language, use an extremely biased method of presentation, and have obfuscated and/or mischaracterized valid criticicsms. Other issues include their mislabeling my complaint that the article does not use neutrality language as "novel POV pushing".

Evidence "pro" race and intelligence editors use an extremely biased presentation method

Evidence "pro" race and intelligence editors obfuscate or mischaracterize

Evidence presented by Rikurzhen[edit]

selections of Zen Master's talk page posts copied from Talk:Race and intelligence/Archive 9 (inherent language bias); most comments are aimed at me:

Some of my comments:

flipping out:

statments to ZM about WP NOR and NPOV policy:

Evidence presented by Drummond[edit]

June

July

Evidence presented by Moran[edit]

Two fundamental problems, (1) persistent set to perceive malevolent intentions & conspiracy, & (2) inability to cognize fundamental scientific requirements, manifest early. The component of klesa (affective contamination) is too heavy to be remediated. I don’t know where to go from here:

Z’s first demonstration of a psychological set. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15148960&oldid=15148411

You argue that the title merely points out IQ discrepancy allegations but you also seem to conclude or hint, as does this article, that race is the cause rather than environmental factors can have effects? That is racist. Needlessly commingling cause and effect is a technique generally only used by subtle POV pushers…. [T]his racism is especially obvious and profoundly insidious.

Z implies that he can divine the motivations behind the writing of passages that he finds controversial:

[T]his article haphazardly DESCRIBES the alleged discrepancy ONLY in racial terms FOR THE PURPOSE of implying cause.

He asks another rhetorical question implying a conspiracy of apologists:

Did all or most of the ‘conservative’ POV pushers on wikipedia attend the same subtle uses of language skunkworks propaganda factory/university?

It has been difficult to make any progress in a situation wherein no crucial issues are ever directly addressed but always return as accusatory questions and rhetorical devices.

Sometimes Zen-master retreats from accusations – only to return to the attack immediately: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15152584&oldid=15152404

Responding to Rikurzhen above, I am not directly accusing you, …. You are quite literally trying to trick people into assuming race is the cause of the alleged discrepancy by repetitively and exclusively framing the effect in terms of race

I tried to be conciliatory, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15208659&oldid=15207765 and got called "racist."

My point is you and others repeatedly frame the issue (the alleged discrepancy) exclusively in racial terms apprently because you want to intentionally confuse cause and effect. That is racist.

Rikurzhen elucidated the difficulties of rational inquiry. Zen-master responded by asserting subtle manipulations: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15245162&oldid=15244993

Rikurzhen showed the need to focus on evidence, and avoid ungrounded accusations of conspiracy. Zen-master responded: “You have already given yourself away in the manner in which you respond.…. That is the most racist thing I've ever heard of.” http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15248674&oldid=15248480

Rikurzhen said contrary points of view are presented, but Zen-master made a personal attack:

Rikurzhen, you keep playing psychological language games. …. you repeatedly, to the point of propagandizing, describe the discrepancy's effects only in racial terms for the apparent purpose of wearing people down into errantly assuming that effect equals cause. How many people have attended this psychological misuse of language propaganda skunkworks factory/university? it must be quite few? What is your motivation for doing what you do? It seems infinitely evil to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15256432&oldid=15256207

Nectarflowed objected to personal attacks. Zen-master responded:

He is a model of propaganda and misdirection as far as this article is concerned at least. …. You are obviously trying to perpetuate psychologically damaging language by needlessly commingling cause and effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15266701&oldid=15264616

Rikurzhen pointed out Zen-master’s logical flaw. A personal attack followed:

You are a master at psychological language games I now see judging from these two paragraphs (nice use of ellipses), also your buddies sure know how to fill in space below. …. You yet again tried to confuse cause and effect (factor = effect), the obviousness of your repetition gives you away. Repeatedly presenting this issue in the manner you do using psychological word game trickery propaganda is obviously racist, just admit the truth.

I rebutted: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15276524&oldid=15274753

Zen-master then said: “The way you think/present this issue is racist.” http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15321534&oldid=15315260

Nectarflowed raised the crucial problem in thinking. Zen-master attacked him too:

The only plausible answer I can come up with to that question is that you are a racist propagandist (please correct me if I am wrong).

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15357018&oldid=15356694

Zen-master claimed once more that Rikurzhen is “racist.” http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15359222&oldid=15358510

I objected: ad hominem. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15591840&oldid=15580214

Zen-master put the following edit summary up: “this article is the anti-thesis of the scientific method, especially if you analyze the psychology of language used” Zen-master said, telescoped, “Only a Nazi would say what you said.” http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Race_and_intelligence&diff=15601046&oldid=15600915

I objected: “That's enough ad hominem attack.”

Zen-master attacked us both. I asked him if it was his actual intention to call me a Nazi.

The sooner you explain how language neutrality is original research the sooner you diminish the plausibility of my theory that you are a nazi. If someone was just a random interested researcher of this subject (even if they dubiously concluded race is a cause) I don't believe they would defend and deflect away from the current misuse of language to the degree you have. zen master T 02:00, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So now I am being accused of being a Nazi too? Let's be clear about what you are saying. P0M 02:16, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You two do seem to be working together to misdirect third parties away from doing any sort of mental analysis on the neutrality of language used in the article. So yes, I am accusing you both of being neo-nazis based on your posts on this talk page and based on the way you repeatedly defend or ignore the misuse of language. I will withdraw my accusations after you explain how striving for language neutrality is original research and/or after you explain how needlessly commingling cause and effect is scientific?”

The fundamental problem of thought, which five or six of us have all tried in ways both short and prolix to explain to Zen-master, is that it is impossible to discover whether there is a connection between two factors without seeing through objective studies whether or not there is a strong correlation between them, and that correlation does not prove causation. Every time one of us tries to explain, even to bring this matter up for question, it is evaded by a liturgy of rhetorical questions and accusations to the effect that a conspiracy exists to bury the true way to discover the truth. P0M 01:20, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]