The current conflict[edit]

Where is the current conflict covered? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66496137 Hcobb (talk) 17:43, 14 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In the War on Amhara page ሰይፍ (talk) 00:18, 29 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Misinformation[edit]

The page of the Amhara people is constantly being violated by specific agenda of a user, Socialwave597. He used to had an Arabic user name and now he changed it to English. He deleted various informations from the page - Including Amhara relationships to the Aksum empire. And he is editing stuff based on his own agenda. Nobody is stopping him. He writing stuff which don’t even mentioned in the source, and deleted other information from other sources which doesn’t soothe his narrative. For example he wrote that it is “believe that the Christianisation of Amharas begin in the Late Aksum empire period”. Believed by who? And that is just a single example. How come no one is stoping him and letting him do as he wish? 2A00:A041:E19A:2600:DDE7:776D:809B:6138 (talk) 21:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The source is referring to the Christianization of Amhara Province (South Wollo), where the Amhara expanded out of. The source is the first volume of Encyclopaedia Aethiopica and is accessible in virtually every major university institution. Socialwave597 (talk) 04:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Christianization part[edit]

Hello, @Socialwave597. Taddesse Tamart was talking about the Agaw in Wag and Lasta. Here is what he wrote about Amhara; “Amhara troops of Tigre ancestry” meaning that according to Taddesse Tamart (which he himself mentioned) Amhara originated from Axum (what is now Tigray/Tigre). This disproves your claim. Please read carefully his works. Javext (talk) 11:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Javext Where does he say that? He actually says that the Christianization of Amhara took place during the ninth century (late Aksumite period), "According to the Life of Tekle Haymanot (c. 1215-1313) the advent of his ancestors to Amhara and Shewa is connected with Digna-Jan’s programme of evangelization of his southern provinces. [...] This brings Digna-Jan to the first half of the ninth century."[1] (page 68-69). The modern Amhara are a mixture of various peoples (similar to the Oromo), whose ethnogenesis took shape during the post-Aksumite era, its possible that some Amhara are of "Tigrayan" or Aksumite ancestry due to assimilation, but not the group as a whole.[2] Socialwave597 (talk) 17:25, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Firstly, in what page does he state this exact claim?
Secondly on page 72 Taddesse Tamart clearly wrote “and his Amhara troops of Tigre ancestry”. The term Tigre in this context is in reference to the area in specific Aksum. In addition I have reviewed the source you sent. The pages 68-69 have nothing written about “Amhara becoming Christians in the 9th century”. The only thing he mentioned was the fact that the ancestors of Saint Tekle Haymanot migrated to the province of Amhara/Bete Amhara during the reign of Digna Jan. Furthermore a well reliable source, Professor Mordechai Abir of the Hebrew university of Jerusalem clearly shows that Amhara became Christians in the 4th century.
This can be proven with other sources such as: The Encyclopedia of African Peoples, Pg 29 The Diagram Group which state “After Syrians convened Ezana. King of Axum 320-55, to Christianity, the Amhara gradually adopted the religion too. The spread of Islam in surrounding areas from the seventh century resulted in the isolation of the Amhara…”;
Ethiopian Review vol 4 1994 state, “During the following 800 years, the Amharas never forgot their original home, Aksum. Their emperors considered their dynasty as the continuation of the Solomonic Dynasty. They returned often to Aksum to be coronated in accordance with the tradition of their ancestors, the …”;
Ethiopia: the land, it's people, History and Culture Yohannes Mekonnen, Page 250 states: “The Amhara have an ancient Christian tradition that traces its roots to the Aksumite Empire. In the fourth century, the emperor Ezana left behind inscriptions that mention the titles "Lord of Heaven" and "Lord of the Earth," Which indicates his conversion to the Christian faith.
Ezana's Christianity is confirmed by the coins minted during his reign: earlier coins bear a crescent and disk, whereas later ones depict the cross, a symbol of Christian penetration in the Amhara region.
There are many more sources I can bring, but I think you get the point. Please take this seriously and quit manipulating sources to fit in your imaginary narratives. Javext (talk) 19:19, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Javext Well then you misread it. Tamrat is clearly saying that the ancestors of Tekle Haymont arrived in the region of Amhara to Christianize it, this is again reiterated on page 229 "According to some versions of the tradition of Dignajan, King of Aksum, the ancestors of Tekle-Haymanot are said to have been sent to Amhara and Shewa with numerous other priests to evangelize the region". The original Amhara are not of "Tigre origin" either (I believe you are engaging in WP:OR here), as linguistic analysis shows they branched off some 2,800 years ago.[3][4] The Amhara originate more southward then Lasta and Wag, in modern day South Wollo (Bete Amhara), hence it makes no sense for them to adopt Christianity prior to the 6th century before the Agaw, even this article on the "Ethnogenesis" tab says that they adopted Christianity after the 7th century. Ethiopian Review is obviously not a reliable source, and neither is "Ethiopia: the land, it's people, History and Culture", if you read here the author even forgot to remove the Wikipedia citations[5]. Please don't refer to WP:SELFPUB that you found on google books and try reading some peer reviewed scholarship on this topic. Socialwave597 (talk) 22:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I did not misread it. Taddese tamrat is the same scholar which stated that Pre-Amharic or an Amharic-like language already existed in the northern part in early times and according to Aleqa Taye, there is evidence from the names of some kings of the Axumite Empire, that they fall to Amharic. From this we can clearly see that Taddese Tamrat believes the ancestors of the Amharas were indeed the Aksumites. I have read the pages 68-69 which you asked to check. It does not state what you claimed. It only says and I quote; “According to the life of Tekle Haymanot (c.1215-1313)) the advent of his ancestors to Amhara/Bete Amhara and shewa is connected with Digna Jan’s program of his evanglizatgion of his southern people.” As you see, nothing about Amhara people becoming Christians at that time whatsoever.
In your own quote “"According to some versions of the tradition of Dignajan, King of Aksum, the ancestors of Tekle-Haymanot are said to have been sent to Amhara and Shewa with numerous other priests to evangelize the region".” It states the ANCESTORS of Tekele haymanot were sent to the area of Amhara and Shewa to evangelize, so how could the ancestors of Tekele haymanot (who is an Amhara) be sent to a region to evangelize his own people? That doesn’t make any sense. This is based off you reading into the text and misinterpreting it.
In addition to this you misread what I said leading to a complete shift in topic. One, the term “tigre” in this context is not in reference to the people, but rather to the modern region in reference to Aksum, so what it is trying to say is that the ancestors of the Amhara (Aksumites) came from that area.
We are not talking about languages but if you insist then you should note that Tigrinya and Amharic have a difference of less than 10% Ge’ez lexicon difference so it is not enough to be used as evidence in your claim.
Once again your claim that the Amhara didn’t become christian until the period between the 7-9th century is based off the assumption that the Amhara were not the Aksumites (Agazi) which is not true as I have proven already. Your capability of not being able to disprove our claims is shown by saying the sources brought are “unreliable” even though they are a variety ranging from self published and non self published sources.
Also you did not mention to one of the sources I gave. Professor Mordechai Abir of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote that Amhara became christian in the 4th century. Is he also not reliable?
In the chronicles of King Gelawdewos (1540-1559) it is stated that Amhara was “land of the Aga’azi” who were the Aksumites showing that the Amharas were the descendants of. I will provide a plethora of sources which are reliable and undeniably proof that the Amhara were Christian since the 4th century AD.
-Source: “Native Peoples of the World:
An Encyclopedia of Groups, Cultures and Contemporary Issues”, by Steven L. Danver
“The Amhara have an ancient Christian tradition that traces its roots to the Aksumite Empire. In the fourth century, the emperor Ezana left behind inscriptions that mention the titles "Lord of Heaven" and "Lord of the Earth," indicating his conversion to the Christian faith.
Ezana's Christianity is confirmed by the coins minted during his reign: earlier coins bear a crescent and disk, whereas later ones depict the cross, a symbol of Christian penetration in the Amhara Region.”
-Source: Oil, Power and Politics:
“Conflict of Asian and African Studies, Hebrew University of Jerusalem”, by professor Mordechai Abir
“The main recipients of the 'semitic' cultural influences were the people today called Amhara and Tigreans,' who from the fourth century A.D. became Christians and more or less dominated the history of Ethiopia. Ironically, the foundations of the kingdom of Ethiopia were laid in the area which now is partly Eritrean and which local secessionists wish to tear away from Ethiopia.” Javext (talk) 12:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Javext I don't want to side track on this and instead would like to focus on your edits on the article (i.e Christianization of Amhara). Now, Taddesse Tamrat without any doubt says that Amhara was Christianized during the reign of Degna Djan, if you can't, don't, or won't understand his words then perhaps we should request a third opinion here. The established fact is the Amhara were originally concentrated in a smaller province in South Wollo prior to the 14th century[6], and according to traditions this province and its people were evangelized during the reign of Degna Djan.[7] (pg 87) "Christianity soon became the central component of the ethnic identity of the Aksumites and their descendants, the Tigreans. By the end of the first millennium groups of the Amhara were also beginning to embrace Christianity."[8] Mordechai Abir's quote is just a passing line without an analysis of the primary sources, and Danver's source is just a broad encyclopedia of various different ethnic groups (WP:TERTIARY). The royal chronicles are a primary source, so we can't use that per WP:PRIMARY. I don't want you to think that I will concede based on fringe sources you find, you can find sources for anything nowadays this isn't a reference competition, its differentiating between what is mainstream academic opinion and what's not.
"Your capability of not being able to disprove our claims
"Our"? Who are you arguing on behalf of? WP:MEATPUPPET? Socialwave597 (talk) 23:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Socialwave597 I am starting to get tired of this discussion. Clearly you are denying every source I give which state that the Christianization of the Amharas began in the 4th century and then bring other sources that do not mention what you claim. How can you even deny that the coins minted in Emperor's Ezana reign displayed Christian symbols? You asked me for "some peer reviewed scholarship on this topic" and I did, giving you multiple of well known and reliable sources, yet you continue to deny them left and right, with random excuses.
Once again you are changing topics, ""Our"? Who are you arguing on behalf of? WP:MEATPUPPET?" I used the term "our" in reference to my claims and the sources. I understand that you are trying to find anything you can, as little as it might be, to bring me down but that doesn't look good on you. Javext (talk) 12:17, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please request a third opinion then. Socialwave597 (talk) 19:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Categories