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The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Islam and antisemitism → Islam and Judeophobia – The term antisemitism has its origins in German eugenics (a thoroughly out-of-favor science), and is grammatically inaccurate because Judaism is a religion. Also, semite (שם) has an older history and is clearly established as more inclusive. Also, religious arguments inside Judaism for classification as a race should be acknowledged as romantic. Scientus (talk) 16:36, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
The origin of the term antisemitism has nothing to do with "eugenics"". However the prejudicial perceptions of Semitic races in Europe are very readily associated with the events of the holocaust.
negative emotions such as fear, hatred, and dread directed at Islam or Muslims". I don't see how one case of such use could have been in a deliberate attempt to do good yet another instance was in "
a deliberate attempt to make bigotry sounds like a mental disease or a psychic disorder" GregKaye 15:13, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Jpgordon again thank-you. I personally think that bigots may be rightly demonized with whatever terminology is used: In the same paragraph Pinsker mentions both, "Having analyzed Judeophobia as an hereditary form of demonopathy, peculiar to the human race, and having represented Anti-Semitism as proceeding from an inherited aberration of the human mind, ..."
I am unclear as to the difference that you see in the relative usages. Having so far got through most of the pamphlet, I have compiled :
relevant quotes related to Judeophobia and anti-Semitism as appearing within:"Auto-Emancipation" by Leon Pinsker (1882)
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That hoary problem, subsumed under the Jewish question, today, as ever in the past, provokes discussion. Like the squaring of the circle it remains unsolved, but unlike it, continues to be the ever-burning question of the day. That is because the problem is not one of mere theoretical interest: it renews and revives in every-day life and presses ever more urgently for solution. This is the kernel of the problem, as we see it: the Jews comprise a distinctive element among the nations under which they dwell, and as such can neither assimilate nor be readily digested by any nation. ...Only when this basis is established, when the equality of Jews with other nations becomes a fact, can the Jewish problem be considered solved. ... With the loss of their country, the Jewish people lost their independence,... The world saw in this people the uncanny form of one of the dead walking among the living. The Ghostlike apparition of a living corpse, of a people without unity or organization, without land or other bonds of unity, no longer alive, and yet walking among the living -- this spectral form without precedence in history, unlike anything that preceded or followed it, could but strangely affect the imagination of the nations. And if the fear of ghosts is something inborn, and has a certain justification in the psychic life of mankind, why be surprised at the effect produced by this dead but still living nation A fear of the Jewish ghost has passed down the generations and the centuries. First a breeder of prejudice, later in conjunction with other forces we are about to discuss, it culminated in Judeophobia. Judeophobia, together with other symbols, superstitions and idiosyncrasies, has acquired legitimacy phobia among all the peoples of the earth with whom the Jews had intercourse. Judeophobia is a variety of demonopathy with the distinction that it is not peculiar to particular races but is common to the whole of mankind, and that this ghost is not disembodied like other ghosts but partakes of flesh and blood, must endure pain inflicted by the fearful mob who imagines itself endangered. Judeophobia is a psychic aberration. As a psychic aberration it is hereditary, and as a disease transmitted for two thousand years it is incurable. It is this fear of ghosts, the mother of Judeophobia, that has evoked this abstract, I might say Platonic hatred, thanks to which the whole Jewish nation is wont to be held responsible for the real or supposed misdeeds of its individual members, and to be libeled in so many ways, to be buffeted about so shamefully. Friend and foe alike have tried to explain or to justify this hatred of the Jews by bringing all sorts of charges against them. ... In this way have Judaism and Anti-Semitism passed for centuries through history as inseparable companions. Like the Jewish people, the real wandering Jew, Anti-Semitism, too, seems as if it would never die. He must be blind indeed who will assert that the Jews are not the chosen people, the people chosen for universal hatred. No matter how much the nations are at variance in their relations with one another, however diverse their instincts and aims, they join hands in their hatred of the Jews; on this one matter all are agreed. Having analyzed Judeophobia as an hereditary form of demonopathy, peculiar to the human race, and having represented Anti-Semitism as proceeding from an inherited aberration of the human mind, we must draw the important conclusion that we must give' up contending against these hostile impulses as we must against every other inherited predisposition... |
I hope to work through further but would appreciate your thoughts. GregKaye 17:13, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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So why continue to peddle this incorrect usage? Anti-Jewishness is a more appropriate term, which is both accurate and sensitive to the matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.160.174 (talk) 13:49, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Antisemitism in Islam per consensus. samee converse 22:29, 16 January 2019 (UTC) (non-admin closure) samee converse 22:29, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Islam and antisemitism → Islamic antisemitism – "Per WP:AND, avoid the use of "and" in article titles in ways that may appear biased"; also WP:PRECISE. See related RM for Christianity and antisemitism. buidhe (formerly Catrìona) 14:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:07, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
There are thousands of "sheikhs" throughout the Middle East and we should require some degree of notability before the opinion of one of them deserves mention. Such as being notable enough for reliable mentions on multiple occasions or, if you like, notable enough for a Wikipedia article. As far as I can tell "Iyhab Bayan" is entirely unknown except for one nefarious sermon that MEMRI (itself a nefarious organization) allegedly obtained. It is not enough to pass WP:WEIGHT; see also WP:ATTACK. Zerotalk 23:51, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
None of the sources here talks about anti-semitism. WP:OR says This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.
During Muhammad's life, Jews lived on the Arabian Peninsula, especially in and around Medina. Muhammad is known to have had a Jewish wife, Safiyya bint Huyayy, who subsequently converted to Islam.[1] Safiyya, who was previously the wife of Kenana ibn al-Rabi,[2] was selected by Muhammad as his bride after the Battle of Khaybar.[3]
This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:25, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
References
I am removing the list of 19th-century pogroms on the grounds that it is fake. For copious proof, see Talk:Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world#Fake_list_of_pogroms. Since the version on this page also includes some Turkish locations from Bernard Lewis' list of blood libels, I checked some of the relevant articles in Encyclopedia Judaica in case pogroms were mentioned. Istanbul (vol 10, p781): no mention of 1870, blood libel in 1874 no pogrom mentioned. Edirne (vol 6, p148): blood libel spread by Armenians, no mention of a pogrom. Izmir (vol 10, p827): six blood libels brought by Greeks 1864–1901, no mention of pogroms. Note that even if some of the blood libels listed by Lewis were accompanied by pogroms, for this article it is necessary they be attributed to Muslims. All sources including Lewis are unanimous that the great majority of blood libels were brought by Christians. Zerotalk 04:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
... and therefore are hated this heavily thereof. Jew hate. Also, GIDAs hate Merkel not because she is a christian believer, but because she is a Jew. This is though a strange reason why a christian believer should be hated is because the christian believer in question is a Jew. --82.207.238.34 (talk) 16:10, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
The lead reads "Antisemitism in Islam refers to scriptural and theological teachings in Islam against Jews and Judaism, and the treatment and persecution of Jews in the Muslim world."
Should we change this to "Antisemitism in Islam refers to theological teachings among Muslims against Jews and Judaism, and the treatment and persecution of Jews in the Muslim world." 73.73.127.102 (talk) 02:06, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
Section deals A LOT with historical events not dealt with in the Koran, at least definitely not in ways a chronicle would; and I had patience and read through much of it plus one detailed source, but I'm yet to find a single reference to any actual sura.
Background is NOT the same as scripture. I'm hugely thankful for the background, but where is the section/material on the Koran & Jews? Missing in action, purpose betrayed, heading misleading, user unhappy. Arminden (talk) 17:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
The article leaps straight into the hostility as if Islam and Judaism arose independently on different planets, but from some perspectives they are different branches of the same religion. I'm knowledgeable enough on this topic to see there's huge gaps of some important things missing, but I feel under-qualified to fill those gaps by myself. I'll try to find some things to add to add as "see also" but the introduction really needs a couple of sentences of background about…
The balance in the body of the article could also be improved by some coverage of Islamic objections to antisemitism.
Irtapil (talk) 13:46, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Fallacy: would only be correct if either the Hebrew Bible were to be seen by Muslims as at least one form of the authentic divine "holy revelation" (and then, logically, be a valid replacement of the Koran), or if "Judaism" had adopted the Koran/Islam; which it didn't, nor does Islam claim that it had. On the contrary, "Judaism" cum its scripture is seen as straying from the divine message, indeed given by Allah to Musa, but denaturated since - in written (Hebrew Bible), not just but also in interpretation.
Am I wrong in any of it? Arminden (talk) 18:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
@Irtapil (1): Yes, I mainly mean the part:
"no clash of interpretations between Judaism and Islam can arise".
If it said "no clash of interpretations between what Islam presumes the original Mosaic/Sinaitic Judaism must have been", then the logical fallacy is gone and you'd only have to educate me about what Islam thinks Moses received from God at Sinai. But saying that Judaism and Islam should be in sync, ignores the very real differences of text and dogma between the two, which makes a full harmonisation impossible; only conversion would do. Fred Donner (see for instance here) is convinced that up until c. 700 CE, Islam was not codified, not really a religion, and a much more inclusive concept of monotheistic brotherhood allowing for all "righteous" Jews and Christians to be regarded as perfectly acceptable mu'minin, "Believers", as much as any of the fresh followers of Muhammad. Ever since though, a clear distinction was introduced, and the actual Judaism (and the more so: the actual Christianity, with its concept of Trinity), were discarded as aberrations. That means: YES, an inreconcilable clash of essence, let alone of interpretation, between practiced Judaism and Islam.
I don't know when and where the concept of denaturation of the original true revelations in Judaism and Christianity took shape, who was blamed if anyone beyond "the Jews" and "the Christians", if the actual texts of the Hebr. Bible (HB) and the Chr. Bible (CB) themselves are seen as contaminated (I believe that's the case) or just their exegeses, and if all main branches of Islam take an identical stand on these topics. Also, in the most accommodating of cases (both HB & CB are/were in their original content divine revelations), are they seen as time- or culture-appropriate, and less complete versions of the divine revelation, which only came down in full to and through Muhammad? Or as equally complete? To push it even further: is there a unique way in which God reveals his truth, an unchangeable "copyrighted" Holy Book in God's mind? Because then the HB and CB are really waaay off, as their actual text hardly at all resembles that of the Koran. Big questions.
@Zero: as far as I know, the Koran doesn't say anything about the HB or CB. It deals with many of the same events, but never with the texts. Over time, Islam develops layer after layer of padding, putting more and more distance between it and previous monotheistic revelations, but that's later on. I don't know anything beyond that. Ceck out Donner and other specialists.
@Irtapil (2): to Muslims, every word of the Koran is 1:1 God's revelation (Allah -> Jibril -> Muhammad). Moses (Mousa) and Jesus (Issa) received their own revelations, but they got garbled in time. Jews & Christians stand accused of misrepresenting & misinterpreting God's original words to Moses and Jesus. How, when, by whom precisely - no idea, nor if there's any Muslim consensus on that. Probably not, but the outcome is rejected.
Hebrew Bible, OT, NT: first, there's no 100% universal canonical form of either (see Biblical canon). Even the Koran didn't always look exactly the same, as proven by the few C7 fragments found. The HB has the Masoretic form, which is very detailed, but late (C10), and not binding in every minute detail to all followers of Rabbinic Judaism, let alone to Karaites or even Samaritans. The Christian OT is based on the Septuagint (LXX), an ancient (C3 BCE) Greek translation of what Alexandrian Jewish sages considered to be relevant (canonical?) from their perspective; and "based on" isn't an evasive term, as there is no one complete ancient manuscript of the LXX accepted by all. But that is the base of the OT, and it's in Greek only. As the HB is almost only in Hebrew, with a little bit of Arameic in the later books, the NT is 100% in Greek, with some discussion about some parts maybe originating in Hebrew texts, based on Semitic turns of phrase which aren't Greek in character, even if they came down to us in Greek. So no, the Bible is not in many languages: you only need Hebrew, a little Arameic, and Greek to read both the HB & CB "in original". As to the NT, there are quite substantial differences in content (long & short versions, varying wording, non-uniform sequence of the books), based on a missing standard text. There are several old manuscripts, which contain these variations, and different denominations and/or translators rely on different MSS.
I would argue that there is no special "magic" to the Koran beyond the incantational "magic" of any liturgical recitation, be it of the Hebrew Bible, pre-Vatican II traditional Catholic Latin scripture, or indeed of any other Christian, various Persian or non-monotheistic religious ritual. The Koran is a much more poetic scripture than the historical parts of the HB and the biographical passages of the NT, which are more focussed on a narrative. And that's probably the main reason for you (and me) not getting ahead to well with reading the Koran, even more so in translation: as I'm telling myself, "it's poetry, stupid!". To use your terms, "old Hebrew" (Biblical Hebrew) does or does not "trump new Arabic" (new? For a C6-7 idiom of the Arabic Peninsula?!) as much or as little as any language trumps another, especially in their most polished literary products. Hebrew has a huge quality of conciseness, among others, and Judaism's concern with ethics is so old that part of its scripture is a condensed form of very profound thought, while Arabic culture of the pre-Muslim period excelled in one branch of arts only, and that's poetry, with all its intricacies of topic, language, and poetic art. So no, I wouldn't support your claim. But thanks for your food for thought! Cheers, Arminden (talk) 19:36, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. patsw (talk) 23:30, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Kashmiri, I wanted to bring to your attention that cancelling edits just to dewikify one word is not considered a good practice. While I value your contributions to Wikipedia, I kindly ask you to refrain from any behaviour that could be perceived as harassment. If such behaviour persists, I may find it necessary to reach out to the administrators for assistance.
Additionally, I've noticed that some of my edits have been cancelled without due consideration. Therefore, I urge you to reconsider cancelling edits without careful review.
Furthermore, it's concerning that these actions began after you saw my message condemning the sexual crimes of Hamas, including rape. Let's endeavour to engage in constructive discourse and respect each other's perspectives. Aisha8787 (talk) 12:02, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
As per the instructions in Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia I announce here that some of the material in this article was copied (with slight changes) into the article Animal stereotypes of Jews in Palestinian discourse. Vegan416 (talk) 06:39, 7 May 2024 (UTC)