Good articleCarolina in My Mind has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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DateProcessResult
July 1, 2009Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on April 6, 2009.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that "Carolina in My Mind", James Taylor's nostalgic 1968 song about growing up in North Carolina, was written in London and on the Mediterranean islands of Formentera and Ibiza?
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Karen[edit]

On the original album, the name was spelled "Karin". Mfields1 (talk) 01:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So it does (Swedish name). I've changed the article. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Carolina in My Mind/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Starting review. I may do minor edits as I go; feel free to revert or comment. PL290 (talk) 16:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Starting to note points here while reviewing the article.

Article has now been looked through a second time after responses to initial review comments, and is looking very promising. Good work in gathering all those citations. It looks pretty close now to me. A few specific unresolved points inline below. See what you think of a few edits I've made in relation to these, and let me know further thoughts on the few remaining questions when ready. PL290 (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A lot of work has gone into addressing the review points. All of the points have now been resolved and the article meets the GA criteria. I am happy to conclude the review with a pass. Good work. PL290 (talk) 08:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can quite understand your dedication to the artist and the topic, and your own careful records sound impressive, but without a WP:RS it remains WP:OR. It's an important and impressive fact: a reason to include it, well-sourced—and also an indicator that it's likely to have been published. If you can find a source, that will be simplest and best. Otherwise, your idea for the concert reviews would be another approach. PL290 (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Artists like U2, Phish, Springsteen have sites that do this kind of analysis, but Taylor doesn't. Newspapers it is. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Two small suggestions to help with this: (a) omit appearing in the set list of virtually every Taylor tour; the point is made well (perhaps more strongly) by simply "Carolina in My Mind" became a staple of Taylor's concert repertoire; (b) having identified a suitable sample of concerts to demonstrate the point, list them in a table in a new section; each entry can then take an inline citation rather than a string of them after one word of prose. But those are only suggestions; as long as we end up with citations that support the (possibly revised) statement, there are no doubt various equally acceptable ways of presenting them. PL290 (talk) 07:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've kept the text unchanged (because there are 15 or so songs that are staples of Taylor's concert repertoire, but not all of them are played every tour), and have added a cite per year, going back to the early 1980s, for every year that he staged a significant tour (the footnote explains more). I've done it all in one big footnote. Hopefully this will satisfy your requirements. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That is reasonable, and good grounds for retaining it; so I've made a suggested edit which uses a different stylistic approach to make your point more strongly. PL290 (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK with me, but someone else could claim your addition is WP:OR or WP:SYN or something. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  1. continuing a trend of emphasizing (continuing to perform it "the 1976 emphasized way"), or
  2. continuing a trend towards greater emphasis (using more and more emphasis as the years go by)?
I suspect it's the latter that's intended but please tweak the wording to clarify. PL290 (talk) 17:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also the above point does not seem supported by the cited website. PL290 (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've clarified the wording to convey the former. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've again made a suggested edit which, like the one above, emphasizes the point subtly more, using a different stylistic approach. PL290 (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK with me. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But no one's ever sat down and written "James Taylor has never lived in South Carolina"... then why start now! Again I've made a suggested edit to make the same point with a positive statement you've already supported. PL290 (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's weaker, and in my opinion it's taking WP rules past the point of common sense, but I guess I can live with it. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I understand the value of including the YouTube link but I feel the statement itself needs a better source in addition to the YouTube link. PL290 (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've added the cite I mentioned above that indicates Desai was in the Clef Hangers, but if it's another part of the statement you're questioning, let me know. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, the whole statement! Including that the performance "featured Desai handling the lead vocal on the closing part of the song". This is a slightly grey area. You've argued a case for keeping the YouTube citation as support for the statement, and it helps that you've now added further citations which support the surrounding facts. I've concluded that this need not be a sticking-point for the GA review, or one which means we should obtain a second opinion as to the outcome: if the citation is challenged in later life by other editors, the article (once the last few points have been completed) meets the GA criteria anyway even with this sentence removed so it is not an issue from that point of view. However, I do suggest you continue trying to find a source that directly supports the statement. PL290 (talk) 07:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The article is well written and, with the exception of criterion 2 (plus the sundry points also made above), it meets the GA criteria. I have placed the review on hold to allow time for the above points to be addressed. PL290 (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks very much for the review, and I'll start work on addressing the issues you raise. I'm going to be disagreeing with you on a couple of matters, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the time and thought you've put into your comments. Wasted Time R (talk) 22:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is looking very encouraging. When the time comes that you've finished addressing the points raised, please indicate this, and we can see what remains to be discussed. I haven't looked in detail at all the responses but from the earlier ones I had the impression that the matters of disagreement are minor and can be resolved with a little more work such that these important points can be made in a way that doesn't detract stylistically (and is therefore also more effective in emphasizing them). PL290 (talk) 11:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, I think I've now finished responding to all of your points. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:44, 29 June 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Just want to say congrats. I don't know much about the whole Good Article process, but clearly you've put a lot of effort into this, and (most importantly, to me) I think this is a really good article! So congrats to Wasted Time R specifically and to the other contributors to the article (which includes me, but that's OK. B^) Nice work.Brettalan (talk) 20:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks. If you're interested you can read more about the process at WP:GAN. In GA a lot depends upon the sole reviewer, and you can tell PL290 was one of the more thorough ones ;-) Wasted Time R (talk) 23:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It went to #67?[edit]

Then why did I hear it on the oldies station awhile back? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.24.190 (talk) 20:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's one of those songs that's become well-known and gotten oldies airplay despite never having been a hit at the time of its release. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


2nd picture[edit]

I propose the 2nd picture be replaced with something more appropriate. The caption makes unverifiable claims with respect to the "family", what song is playing, the state they are in, or the road they are on. Begi0 (talk) 22:47, 11 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How do you know that File:Eaton Center.jpg is a photo of the Eaton Center in Cleveland? There are dozens of buildings and city scenes that look like this all across the country. Many photos on WP are only verifiable by the user inspecting the subject of the image, i.e. you can go to city X and see building Y for yourself and verify that it's the one in the photo. So is this one; the inside picture in the cassette case is that of the JT Live album, and if you drive south into North Carolina on Route 168 you will see the exact scene shown here. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe you missed my point, let me be more clear. In my opinion, the picture should be replaced for two reasons: 1) It does not contribute to the encyclopedic information. It doesn't elaborate on the lyrics or recordings. It doesn't show anything about later appearances or other performances of the song. It may demonstrate a sense of place, but only marginally. 2) The picture is too generic for the claims in the caption to be made. Let's walk through this point by point. A) No family can be seen in the picture. There is only one hand. B) It is not immediately clear the cassette tape is from the JT Live album. In fact, the cassette case has a different picture than the one on the JT Live album wiki page. C) There is no way to verify the song is being played. D) And most importantly, the location cannot be verified because there are no landmarks. The Eaton Center is a landmark because it has unique architecture in a prominent location. The most prominent things in the picture are power lines and a blue sign. There is nothing unique about the power lines, and the sign is too small to be read. Therefore, it is nearly impossible to verify these power lines and this sign can only be seen as one is driving into NC. Thoughts?
P.S. I am as much of a JT fan as the next person, and I'm from North Carolina. In fact, I made this account yesterday to help improve the article of one of my favorite songs. However, if all responses are as condescending and aggressive as yours, then I regret joining the Wikipedia community. Begi0 (talk) 02:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I apologize if my tone came across the way you say; that was certainly not my intent. Regarding your point 1, 'sense of place' is one of the major themes of the article, and I believe this photo does demonstrate that, more than marginally; how many other songs would someone think of playing when crossing into a state? Regarding your original point, what 'more appropriate' image would you propose replacing this with? Finding images to illustrate song articles is hard! I thought at the time, and still think, that this is a slightly 'outside the box' but interesting way to do this. Regarding point B, the photo doesn't show the outside of the cassette, but rather the inside pictures of the cassette case, that you see when the cassette is taken out (since it was in the car's player). If you have the cassette, open it up and you'll quickly see what I mean. Regarding points A and C, yes you'll have to take my word on this (although it's obvious that there's at least a driver that isn't shown), but what other reason could I possibly have for having taken this picture in the first place? Regarding your most important point of D, yes you can verify this. Take a look at this view from Google Maps. This is the stretch of Highway 168 it was taken on, during the first piece of countryside after crossing the state border. Note the five lane road, with a yellow-marked turning lane in the middle (turn off the map overlay if you need to get rid of Google's label masking to see the white versus yellow colors clearly). Note the line of trees on the left and the open fields and line of telephone poles on the right. Note the road bending to the right ahead. If you have Google Earth installed, you can also bring that up and find the same location and see the same landmarks and angle it, and you can see a billboard on the left as well. And finally, this article has been officially reviewed twice, once for WP:DYK and once for WP:GA (the second highest status a Wikipedia article can attain), and neither review process objected to this image. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This picture and caption are absolutely worthless and there is nothing encyclopedic about them. I removed it once and it should be removed permanently. As an example of how absurd this is, I offer an example: would it make sense for me to add a photo to the article on the film "The Matrix" showing my hand holding "The Matrix" DVD case in an unidentifiable room in front of an unidentifiable television with a caption stating that it's a photo of the conclusion of a group viewing of "The Matrix" at Keanu Reeves' house? Have you ever read a real encyclopedia? If not, I can assure you this is the type of thing that would never make it in. Your point about verifying the location on Google Maps is ridiculous. If someone has to use Google Maps and detective skills to verify that a picture takes place in North Carolina, you're doing it wrong. If the picture showed JT singing CIMM at the Old Well at UNC-CH, that might be a good photo here. If JT was standing on top of a "Welcome to North Carolina" sign holding the lyric sheet to CIMM, that might be a good photo here. One's understanding of "Carolina In My Mind" is not aided in the least by this beyond vague family-sing-a-long-on-a-country-road photo. Just because you were there, had a fun experience, and snapped a photo does not make it significant to an article about this song. Gmflash79 (talk) 01:22, 26 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The photos you suggest would be good ones showing how JT relates to Carolina. That's not the only aspect of this subject; the other is how the song has made JT's fans relate to the sense of place about Carolina that the song portrays. That's what the second photo illustrates. As for what other encyclopedias would do, you're right. But then, there's no other encyclopedia that has whole lengthy articles about individual pop songs, while Wikipedia has literally thousands of such articles. So yes, Wikipedia is different. Going to your Matrix example, what you suggest would be a falsehood, unless you were actually at Reeves' house. But if, say, it was a photo of a large group of fans waiting to get into a premiere showing of the Matrix sequels, with the fans wearing Matrix shirts or something like that, then yes that would be a good addition. Or even better, a photo of Matrix computer workers sitting next to monitors displaying those vertical-scrolling-numbers Matrix screensavers that were very popular for a while. That would also be a good addition, that would illustrate how well The Matrix captured the imagination of viewers. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:56, 26 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Looks like you only want to have the picture on the article because you created it, and won't be taking any arguments, I don't see it's encyclopedic value either — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.229.33 (talk) 21:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your latest edit removing it says "Dont be narrow minded and accept it has no encyclopeic value". But actually, it is you who lack imagination. There are literally thousands and thousands of articles about songs on Wikipedia. How are most of them illustrated? At most, by a cover of the single for the song. And that's usually it. But all that conveys is how the artist, or the record company, thought to portray the song. It illustrates nothing about how listeners relate to the song. And that's what I'm trying to do here. Yes, it's a little unusual, but think outside the box for once. And arguments about encyclopedic value ring hollow to me. What other encyclopedia has thousands of articles about individual songs? None! So all the typical article content about these songs – the detailed chart ratings, the lists of musicians, the timings of the B-sides, the critical receptions, everything – is "unencyclopedic" by comparison to any previous encyclopedias. But that should not stop us from deciding how songs can best be written about and illustrated here. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:57, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is a reason while all the song articles look the same old boring article to you, the examples you give are encyclopedic because they are factual, relevant and relate to the subject matter, while the "how listeners relate to the song" point is not. There is nothing wrong with trying to be creative, this is just not the place for that kind of content it I think. Yes it may look square and boring, but this is an encyclopedia after all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.229.33 (talk) 16:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm actually not sure how I feel about the photograph, but when I read this comment, I'm thinking it applies to the entire section. The "sense of place" section is certainly about "how listeners relate to the song", and it's thoroughly documented with sources. To me it's clear that that not only is suitable for Wikipedia, but in fact is a big plus and an excellent example of how to build a good article on a song. Are you saying that that section doesn't belong? If not, is it unreasonable to illustrate it this way? Would there be a better way to illustrate it? Brettalan (talk) 17:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, exactly. 65.160.229.33, I think you are completely mistaken when you say that "how listeners relate to the song" is not relevant. Music is more of an emotional, visceral experience than an intellectual one, and how listeners relate to a work – be it classical, opera, pop, country, whatever – is the key to why some works gain a large and long-lived audience and some don't. In particular, "Carolina in My Mind" was never a hit single at the time. It did not appear on a hit album at the time. It has built up its audience and its renown over time, over several decades, and the geographical sense of place and related associations that the song evokes is a key factor in that happening. This article would be amiss if it did not cover that aspect of the song, and this photo is, as Brettalan states, a way of illustrating that aspect. As for encyclopedias needing to be 'square and boring', where in the Wikipedia guidelines does it say that? Actually, WP:WIAFA says the best articles are "engaging, even brilliant" ... that doesn't sound like square and boring to me. And this photo is intended to help engage the reader in the article about the song. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Still its just a random picture of a random person holding a James Taylor cassette in a random location...but have it your way, I'm doing arguing when obviously don't see any point as valid. Cheers! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.160.229.33 (talk) 19:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm with everyone else, that photo is out of place, you are injecting a personal image and emotion into an encyclopedia entry which has no meaning to anyone else, and only the most tenuous connection to the topic itself. It does not belong here. I have a treasured photo of my kids standing outside with faces pointing to the sky and tongues sticking out to catch snowflakes on them, which for me is evocative of the Dean Martin song "Let It Snow." But I'm not gonna go upload it to the wikipedia page for that song! But since there clearly has been a lot of debate, followed by stability for 11 years, I'm just gonna leave it alone, but FWIW I found it immediately jarring and out of place for wikipedia; it felt more like a Facebook "checking in" personal post. MManville (talk) 21:49, 7 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011[edit]

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the ((Allmusic)) template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

--CactusBot (talk) 18:28, 1 January 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

the original version had bowed strings included?[edit]

The bowed strings I refer to come in at about 1:08 into the original version. Apparently, they didn't make it into the newer version most familiar to most people??? That's a beautiful touch having them in there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.47 (talk) 18:00, 17 December 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cover[edit]

The Scottish band The Marmalade also did a cover version - http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Decca-Years-Marmalade/dp/B00006J3VO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425034289&sr=8-2&keywords=marmalade+decca Asat (talk) 10:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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