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Harka magar@700com 2402:8100:258B:9E8D:80BA:CE39:6D3F:7577 (talk) 02:56, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Harka as a Moroccan-Arabic term[edit]

Hello @M.Bitton. As shown by Boussellam's Moroccan Arabic dictionary, volume 1, page 544, this is clearly a "Moroccan Arabic word or phrase", and this should be enough to add the category given the context where the term is used. In addition to that, the term "harka" حرْكة with this pronunciation and meaning (military campaign) is not found in Standard Arabic dictionaries (I've checked several, including almaany which collects meanings from multiple known Arabic dictionaries). They only list "haraka" حَرَكة and its various meanings. Of course you're free to add categories related to Tunisian and Algerian Arabic, if they are listed as terms in these languages/dialects in some reliable source(s). Ideophagous (talk) 14:40, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Being used in Morocco doesn't make it a specifically Moroccan term (as you claimed). As far as I know, in the Maghreb, Harka simply means a mobile war party. M.Bitton (talk) 14:46, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion here is about adding the category. My edit comment was meant to clarify the edit, but is not part of the article, and as such does not need to be justified or discussed. Once again, feel free to add a category related to Tunisian and/or Algerian Arabic if there are sources proving that the term "harka" is part of them as well. Ideophagous (talk) 14:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you agree that Harka is not a specifically Moroccan term? M.Bitton (talk) 14:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here are reliable sources that give its meaning: [1][2][3]. M.Bitton (talk) 15:09, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your claim that this is a specifically Moroccan term is baseless and I provided enough sources that prove that, so there is no reason for you to continue trying to impose that view. Also worth noting is the fact that the Arabic word is spelled exactly the same whether in Algerian Arabic, Moroccan Arabic, Tunisian Arabic or classical Arabic. M.Bitton (talk) 16:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It does not need to be specifically Moroccan for the category to be added. Ideophagous (talk) 16:14, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]


There's a dispute between @M.Bitton and myself as to whether the article should contain Category:Moroccan Arabic words and phrases. M.Bitton claims it should not be added on the basis that the term is not exclusively Moroccan. I don't think this is a necessary condition, and adding that category does not exclude adding similar categories for Tunisian and Algerian Arabic, provided there are sources to support. M.Bitton keeps removing the changes I made in the article, including a reliable source (Dictionary of Moroccan Arabic). So as to avoid edit warring, I request comments from experienced editors in the project.--Ideophagous (talk) 16:14, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

M.Bitton claims it should not be added on the basis that the term is not exclusively Moroccan that's another baseless assertion. The fact of the matter is that you made the claim that a specifically Moroccan term and when asked to substantiate it, you refused. You're also adding the Moroccan version in the lead while the RS is clear that this is an Arabic term. This article is just a stub, more content will be added to it, especially about the change of the meaning of the term for the last 70 years or so (see harki for more info). M.Bitton (talk) 16:19, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What I wrote in a clarifying comment, that was not meant to be added as content to the article itself, is irrelevant to the discussion. The simple fact that the term "harka" حَرْكة (without vowel after the R) is listed in a Moroccan Arabic dictionary, and cannot be found in Standard Arabic dictionaries, as only the original word "haraka" حَرَكة (with a vowel after the R) can be found in MSA dictionaries, in addition to the fact that the article is about the historical term itself, are more than sufficient reasons to add the category. Ideophagous (talk) 16:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So what if it's listed in some cherry picked source (a Moroccan dictionary that isn't even RS to boot)? The word Harka is Arabic, a fact that is based on multiple RS. The rest of your comment doesn't address the raised concerns about your baseless claims. M.Bitton (talk) 16:32, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are no and have not been any baseless claims in the article. Please stick to the main topic which is whether the category Category:Moroccan Arabic words and phrases should be added or not. Ideophagous (talk) 16:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This edit is clearly meant to introduce the baseless claim (highlighted above). In any case, I said what I had to say and most important of all, provided the supporting diffs. M.Bitton (talk) 16:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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