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The result of the move request was take this to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. Category renaming must take place there as a matter of policy, and will garner a wider audience for this discussion as well. The List articles in question can then be named to match the categories. Aervanath (talk) 17:39, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
The proposed move will not affect the present page, but all articles and categories are related to the present article.
It is my opinion that the current names of the articles and categories
are misleading, since all agents (materials, compounds, environments) could and should be classified by IARC. The classification does not make them "carcinogens". The IARC itself mentions[1]:
In the following lists, the agents are classified as to their carcinogenic hazard to humans in accordance with the Preamble to the IARC Monographs.
According to this text, we should have articles named:
List of agents classified from IARC to Group xxx as to their carcinogenic hazard to humans. Instead, I propose the simpler title:
List of IARC Group xx agents.
Similarly for categories, my proposal is:
Category:IARC Group xx agents
Any alternative proposals are welcome. The present proposal is duplicated is all articles and categories, but if you have any comment, please leave a comment here. --FocalPoint (talk) 13:24, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I hereby copy a comment from Talk:List of IARC Group 3 carcinogens which was actually the trigger for this proposal:
This is an inconsistent page title - the text says the members of the class are not classifiable. The title says they are carcinogens. Midgley 04:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
--FocalPoint (talk) 13:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Following lack of reaction, I proceed to the modifications proposed.--FocalPoint (talk) 19:29, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I waited for a week before acting. Please proceed to alternative proposals / objections to discuss.--FocalPoint (talk) 19:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Following Physchim62's objection, I posted the issue at WP:RM and WT:CHEM. Hopefully someone will appear and comment.--FocalPoint (talk) 20:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
My point is that the existing article and category names are misleading, since the word carginogens is iterated in all groups. Hoping that everybody would agree to that, I made a proposal which as you suggest is far from perfect, however, it has the following positive points:
Shootbamboo is right, Group 1 agents are carcinogens. But check everything else. Not even for the one material in Category 4, the wording is not absolute. My opinion is that we would be misleading if we would replace the actual characterization with a much shortened version, fit for a category or article title.
Furthermore, I do not claim that the proposal I made is the best. I firmly believe that it is better than the current, misleading situation and that it is closer to WP:NPV. If we can make it better, or if someone can think of a better alternative solution, please submit your proposals. My opinion is that any solution other than the present situation, suboptimal as it may be, will be much much better and closer to the principles of wikipedia.--FocalPoint (talk) 07:31, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
"Agents" is simply wrong for several items on these lists, as the lists include mixtures and exposure circumstances. The proposed titles give no clues that the lists have been evaluated for carcinogenicity: "List of IARC Group 1 agents" might just as well be a list of particularly notable employees, for example! I can see that there is a problem with Group 4, which only contains one substance anyway: perhaps that list could be merged into this article and the category deleted. However, the question remains: if we don't use the IARC evaluations of carcinogenicity, whose evaluations do we use? What do we do when there are conflicting evaluations? These lists and categories are a solution to the problem of maintaining a neutral point of view on what is often a controversial topic. Physchim62 (talk) 11:06, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
and:
As a first preference I have the original proposal. As a second preference, I will modify
Cacycle's proposal trying to be as close to IARC terminology as possible:
and:
Still, I believe that the first proposal is more adequate. --FocalPoint (talk) 08:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Another approach to the category structure would be to abandon the IARC criteria altogether and switch to the Globally Harmonized System (GHS). This would give three categories:
This means that the category names specify that were are talking in terms of human carcinogenicity. The use of "carcinogens" in the titles of lists of of the IARC groups is not incorrect: limonene, for example, is carcinogenic if you're a male rat but not if you're a human (or even a female rat). Physchim62 (talk) 08:43, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
If we think that the category names are adequate, we might use them. If not, I do not see any proposal for "automatic moving" of the list articles.--FocalPoint (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi Physchim, I see your proposal for the GHS categorization. I believe that it is an entirely different issue from the one we are dicussing here. --FocalPoint (talk) 19:43, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
This is exactly my point. I believe that it is not a decision for wikipedians to take. We report only IARC Group 2B. Whoever is interested, he can form his own opinion from the description in Group 2B. We are thus detaching ourselves from the problem as much as possible.....but giving information as we should.--FocalPoint (talk) 22:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Proposal posted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 March 27.--FocalPoint (talk) 13:46, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
LeadSongDog come howl! 16:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
LeadSongDog come howl! 16:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for notifying me. Too many questions together, but let us take the easiest thing first:
The rest I believe we should discuss after resolving the first proposal for renaming the articles. --FocalPoint (talk) 10:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Hoping this discussion is not dead...I also agree with proposal #2; just because the carcinogenicity of any agent has been assessed does not make the agent a carcinogen. The title of this "IARC Group 2B..." page is misleading. 24.23.251.120 (talk) 00:21, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
This discussion has gone nowhere in three years, so I'm going to edit the titles in accordance with proposal #2 above. I'm also involved with writing to Electrosensitivity UK; if you look at the third paragraph of this page of theirs: http://www.es-uk.info/about/index.asp you can see that they're classifying electromagnetic fields as "a Class 2B carcinogen", no ifs or buts about it. I'll be complaining to them that they're likely to encourage hypochondria; I don't want them writing back "but even Wikipedia agrees that EM fields are carcinogenic". This matters; a friend of mine has recently convinced herself that cellphones, stereos and monitor screens are making her ill. Clark42 (talk) 19:43, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Update: the system won't let me change the title (ie. move the page), because it was done once and then undone, so it leads to a double-redirect. Could someone with more experience do it, or tell me how? It's highly misleading as it is. Clark42 (talk) 00:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
The article regurgitates the IARC's talking points on being critized over their classification of glyphosate without question, stating that its reputation has been under unprecedented attack. It then neglects to mention that they were exposed for having selectively removed results thereby distorting their findings. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/who-iarc-glyphosate/
At the very least it should be neutral on the subject, not siding with the IARC. Considering that they label formaldehyde (found in apples) a class 1 carcinogen and coffee the same class as glyphosate, and basically got told by their parent org the WHO to stop re-reviewing food stuffs says a lot about these conclusions. https://governance.iarc.fr/GC/GC60/En/Docs/GC60_13_CoordinationWHO.pdf (#7)
207.161.212.113 (talk) 13:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
On the IARC website, it is reported as follows:
List of Classifications: Agents classified by the IARC Monographs
Therefore, the WIKIPEDIA pages must be named as follows:
List of IARC Group "NL" Agents
Where the Classification code "NL" can only be 1, 2A, 2B, or 3. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ignatius Iggy (talk • contribs) 12:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)