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Short description, Propose change from militant to terrorist[edit]

Short description ought to describe in short the organization. ISIS is considered a terrorist organization by a grand majority of nations. It is important I think to include this in the description. Homerethegreat (talk) 19:04, 5 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Any response? Homerethegreat (talk) 09:23, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Homerethegreat
Absolutely not. RotoBanana (talk) 11:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Homerethegreat
Isis is a terror organisation by all definitions, including Wikipedia's. RotoBanana (talk) 11:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See WP:TERRORIST - Wikipedia does not call organizations terrorist. PhilKnight (talk) 11:31, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Value-laden labels – such as calling an organization a cult, an individual a racist, sexist, terrorist, or freedom fighter, or a sexual practice a perversion – may express contentious opinion and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution. Avoid myth in its informal sense, and establish the scholarly context for any formal use of the term.
It does say this though. And since it's widely referred to as such, perhaps it ought to be referred to as such? Homerethegreat (talk) 11:39, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Homerethegreat It's not only referred to as such, but by all definitions it is. Including Wikipedia's own. If something needs an editing, it's Wikipedia's rules about writing "terror". Online encyclopedia must not publish misinformation. RotoBanana (talk) 14:01, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In short, can we changed the short description so that it says terrorist instead of militiant? Homerethegreat (talk) 22:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad is the origin group[edit]

The fact that IS was originally created by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 1999 as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad has been replaced in the first paragraph and it's origins falsely changed to the Jaish al-Ta'ifa al-Mansurah group in 2004. The edit [1] was done by Shadowwarrior8 and implemented various other changes to the article without actual justification provided. The source[1] does not mention the latter group and could not be clearer in listing the former as the original name of IS in 1999 in a table on the very first page. This is a falsification of the source and should be reversed. The fact that IS was formerly part of al-Qaeda has also been deleted. 92 Emery (talk) 12:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

92 Emery There are plenty of sources which state that ISI was an independent group which was allied to al-Qaeda during 2006-2013. Abu Omar al-Baghdadi had no oath of allegiance (bay'ah) to Osama Bin Laden. For example:
"The Islamic State: Leaving al-Qaeda Behind"

It is true that when the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) was formed in October 2006, al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia was the main component of its armed wing, but al-Qaeda was later completely absorbed into the ISI. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s successor as al-Qaeda’s leader in Iraq, Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, swore allegiance to Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, the emir of the ISI. This was recognized by the central al-Qaeda leadership in 2007, when Ayman al-Zawahiri declared in an interview that the Iraqi branch of al-Qaeda had ceased to exist due to its integration into the ISI. This same point was made by a former Saudi commander of al-Qaeda, Abdullah al-Qahtani, when he was interviewed by al-Arabiya in a prison in Iraq.

I am ok with mentioning al-Qaeda in Iraq as a predecessor organisation, though. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 15:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with mentioning al-Qaeda in Iraq as a predecessor and I'm also ok with simply listing al-Qaeda as an ally of IS considering the source you quoted has convinced me. However you made other major changes without proper explanation including the main issue which was removing Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad as the origin group. The source by Aaron Zelin is very clear in listing them as the origin of IS. In fact in your latest edit [2] to the History of the Islamic State page you note Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad as the earliest origin group in 1999 but you also added Jaish al-Ta'ifa al-Mansurah and Jamaat Jaysh Ahl al-Sunnah wa-l-Jamaah as the two other origin groups. Do you have a source describing these groups as origin groups of IS? You used the same Aaron Zelin article as the source there but these two groups aren't even mentioned in the source. 92 Emery (talk) 01:56, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

References

  1. ^ Zelin, Aaron Y. (June 2014). The War between ISIS and al-Qaeda for Supremacy of the Global Jihadist Movement (PDF). Research Notes (Report). Vol. 20. The Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Archived from the original (PDF) on 20 February 2015. Retrieved 9 February 2023.

ISIS vs ISIL[edit]

It is probably of note that only the White House referred to ISIS as ISIL to start with, and after many years only few media outlets began using ISIL. It was a means of knowing the level of bias of the story, a dog whistle if you would, whether it was straight from the White House typewriter or not. It's sort of how now they're doing the same with Kiev to Kyiv. You know when you see 'Kyiv' it's going to be a very particular political piece, where when you see Kiev it could be just about anything.

In a few hundred years no one will know who they are, but in the short term there's probably a lot of people who don't know that no one besides CNN, MSNBC and Obama ever uttered the word 'ISIL' for quite a few years. And the obsessive pushing of this weird dog whistle (especially odd given ISIS themselves never used ISIL) just seemed absurd and weird because back then it wasn't normal for people to randomly redefine words or meddle with language to control information. 2001:8003:2956:4300:5848:7501:95E2:4A48 (talk) 06:43, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Proposed merge of Islamic State – Saudi Arabia Province into Islamic State[edit]

The article to be merged seems only to list the activities of a specific chapter of the IS. These activities could very well just be part of the article on the full Islamic State.

AriTheHorsetalk to me!

18:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Remove Artsakh from the opponents list.[edit]

It no longer exists since January 1st, 2024, so why keep it in here? Poetic450 (talk) 10:50, 5 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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