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Artsakh announced its intention to dissolve by today. Is it officially gone? 108.160.120.91 (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, they reversed their intentions to dissolve by Jan 1, though that information may actually be fake, so now? Who knows. Whether they announced or not, they do not control any territory at this point, and so they do not meet the criteria to be considered a sovereign state. They are more akin to a government-in-exile than anything else. As of now they are not dissolved, so IMO, there's one of two ways to treat this. Either Artsakh is treated as a government-in-exile, or we keep the status quo on the page until more information comes out regarding the circumstances in the area. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 08:11, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for the mistakes, I do not fully speak English, but it seems to me that in the second paragraph of the article something is confused in the numbers.
"...16 states, of which there are 6 UN member states, 1 UN General Assembly non-member observer state, and 8 de facto states...": 6 + 1 + 8 ≠ 16.
And in addition, nothing has been fixed here at all — there are still 206 states: "On the basis of the above criteria, this list includes the following 206 entities:
203 states recognised by at least one UN member state
2 states that satisfy the declarative theory of statehood and are recognised only by non-UN member states
1 state that satisfies the declarative theory of statehood and is not recognised by any other state". 2A00:1FA2:C251:E972:0:4F:4D54:6201 (talk) 09:14, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Somaliland is diplomatically accepted by Ethiopia. It's not 'unrecognized by any other state'[edit]
For that matter, the S.M.O.M. is recognized as a state by at least Costa Rica and San Marino, and so by the logic presented herein should be included as a state as well as a sovereign subject of international law. 142.127.178.197 (talk) 18:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TDL, the Vatican is a state; the Holy See is a different thing and cannot be described as a state. It is the episcopal see (or diocese) of the Pope and the central government of the Catholic Church. Its "territory" is the whole city of Rome, not just the Vatican. The Vatican is that part of the Holy See under sovereign/state authority of the Pope. By calling the Holy See "a non-member-state observer" the UN is not calling it a state. It's just saying that it's an observer and not a member-state.Barjimoa (talk) 10:51, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioend in my edit summary, the Holy See is recognized as a Non-Member-State by the UN (see here: [1]), so the language in the article here is correct.
The UN has another cateogory for non-state observers (see here), so calling it a state which is non member observer. It was a big deal back when Palestine's status at the UN was upgraded from "just" an observer to a non-member state observer (like the Holy See), which was broadly interpreted as the UN recognizing its statehod. See [2] for example. TDL (talk) 02:22, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it's been interpreted as such for Palestine, but not for the Holy See. No one describes the Holy See as a state in international law, everyone does it for the Vatican. In fact, even this article lists the Vatican and not the Holy See; the problem is that this article is simply and evidently mistaken in treating the Holy See as if it's the same thing of the Vatican city. It ought to be corrected, no? A state is generally agreed to have: a sivereign territory, a population, a government. What's the population, sovereign territory and government of the Holy See? The Holy See is the bishopric of Rome (embodied by the Pope), and bishoprics are divisions inside the Catholic Church, not states. The Vatican is a state (with a territory, a population, a government) over which the Holy See has sovereignity.Barjimoa (talk) 05:12, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I understand all of that, and if you are proposing to add further clarity in the description of the Vatican City text description then I'm supportive of that.
However, none of that changes the fact that the UN does recognize the Holy See as a non-member observer state and so we must descirbe it as such. We can't describe it as something else just because you think that the UN is wrong. If the UN didn't think it was a state, it would be recognized as an observer entity, much like the SMOM for example (see [3]). You can read the most recent UN resolution for yourself, it is very clear: "Acknowledges that the Holy See, in its capacity as an Observer State...".
The way you worded things would have led us to conclude that Palestine was a UN recognized state prior to the 2012 resolution (since it was recognized as an observer entity at that point), at a time when it clearly was not. Observer states and observer entities are different, and it's only the latter that is relevant to this list/context. We need to keep that clear in the text, otherwise it opens the door to debating the inclusion of various observer entities. TDL (talk) 18:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For South Korea, it says there is no soviergenty dispute, even though it’s not reconized by North Korea. Blackmamba31248 (talk) 00:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A result of this edit. This is likely related to the media hype surrounding their recent constitutional change, which some media claimed was recognition. CMD (talk) 01:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it’s not really a recognition. This is this like saying Isreal reconizes Palestine because they are Enemies. Blackmamba31248 (talk) 01:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree, and agree with reverting absent better sourcing. It was an idea that did spread a bit as these things can, even if not fully supported. CMD (talk) 02:13, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
