Needs references. This one should be worked up through the quality chain to FA status.
Some references have been added in a few different formats; they need to be standardised with <ref> and citation templates. Other facts in the article are still labeled with ((fact)). More thorough referencing is needed before we can move it up the chain. Slambo (Speak) 14:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
This is the first time I've seen an article quality designation. I like the idea, but I think the rating in this case too low (how up to date is the rating?) While I agree on the value of minor editing and "tightening" of the structure (hard to achieve in a community project!), imo the presentation is informative, well balanced and impressive. Thanks for listening!
--Philopedia 23:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
When is the shoe paddle used? I assume it's only used on older trains. --Gbleem 02:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
A shoe paddle? Never heard of it. In what what context did you hear it used?
I have heard of a shoe slipper which is a piece of wood painted yellow used for putting a 3rd rail shoe back onto the third rail if for some reason it came off. Those are still used from time to time (even for newer trains) but not very often.
--Allan 13:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
It is official policy that every factual claim in Wikipedia should be verifiable. There is no "ways of counting" exception. For a claim that the number of stations is different than the MTA's official report (468), I would expect both a citation of a reputable publication making this claim, and an explanation of why the counting was different from the MTA's official count. --Grouse 07:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
What kind of context could this be a footnote to? — Larry V (talk) 20:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Rather than continue to beat around the bush of figuring our the "first" NYC subway date, I supplied the sourceable first dates of each type of operation in what became the subway, since "subway" has two meanings in New York: (1) it refers to an underground railway and also refers to (2) the entire system, generically. The "J" line is a "subway" although it is almost entirely above ground.
The 1904 and 1863 dates are for continuous operations. The 1904 date for the IRT first subway has different parts currently operated by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 trains. The 1863 section is currently operated by the D train. The elevated date is not continuous because the line was closed as a cable line and reopened in 1870 as a steam line. It became the 9th Avenue el. -- Cecropia 02:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree 100% (just noting that this took a year since I first started contributing to Wiki (May 2005) and it was changing the 1863 to 1904 and almost getting jumped on). Considering it has been a big bone of contention I hope the issue can finally be put ot rest.
--Allan 12:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
The ridership numbers are not well reported, please follow the convention of reporting daily ridership as yearly ridership/365. Or reporting average weekday ridership with (avg. weekday), so as to standardize the way data is reported for all rapid transit systems. --JVittes 15:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Removed cfdnotice, cfd has completed. --Kbdank71 16:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Larry V (talk • contribs)
From MTA financial filings, "THE RELATED ENTITIES"
THE RELATED ENTITIES
Legal Status and Public Purpose
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (“MTA”), a public benefit corporation of the State of New York (the “State”), has the responsibility for developing and implementing a unified mass transportation policy for The City of New York (the “City”) and Dutchess, Nassau, Orange, Putnam, Rockland, Suffolk and Westchester counties (collectively with the City, the “Transportation District”). MTA carries out these responsibilities directly and through its subsidiaries and affiliates, which are also public benefit corporations. The following entities, listed by their legal names, are subsidiaries of MTA:
- The Long Island Rail Road Company,
- Metro-North Commuter Railroad Company,
- Staten Island Rapid Transit Operating Authority,
- Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority,
- MTA Bus Company, and
- MTA Capital Construction Company.
The following entities, listed by their legal names, are affiliates of MTA:
- Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, and
- New York City Transit Authority, and its subsidiary, the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority.
I believe this may have something to do with the fact that the City of New York owns the assets of the NYCTA and was formed under the earliest legislation of the current units of the MTA. --Cecropia 16:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Removed this from the Trivia portion of the article. Whether the geography is correct or incorrect is really a matter of opinion rather than encylopedic fact.
"The geography of the New York subway system is incorrect. First, there is no part of the subway system where consecutive stations are 57th street and 66th street -- the station south of 66th street is 59th street. Second, the station just before Yankee Stadium (from Manhattan) is underground"
--Allan 18:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
A scene in Ghostbusters 2 takes place in an abandoned NY subway line.
The number in the infobox beside "system length" seems like it may be a bit confusing, at least to people like me who don't know much about trains. nycsubway.org[1] seems to say that while there are 656 miles of revenue track, the routes actually only add up to 230 miles -- I presume the former figure includes tracks that run side-by-side. Is there a standard way of determining system length? The method used in this article does not appear to be the same as the one used, for example, in the London Underground article. Greyfedora 05:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Frankly, the "system length" figure is dead wrong. It should be (as for all other metro systems) ROUTE length not TRACK length. If no-one objects I'll change it
Exile 13:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I tried to make a clear distinction between route length and track length in the introduction and table on the right. I also changed the "most extensive system in the world" claim into "one of the most extensive systems", since it depends on the way it is measured. Route lengthwise, London's the biggest; track length and by number of stations, it is New York.
sweek 19:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
With relation to this nom, I believe that this article needs to be expanded greatly in order to be featured, and even if it is not, just to be as high a quality as other articles of similar nature. Take a look at these articles of subways in other cities:
Now of course, I know as a native New Yorker I have to get involved too, but as you can see, these other articles involved hundreds of contributers. I hope we can rival against the other articles, not for pride, but to educate others who either take the MTA daily, or lives on the other side of the world.
Also, should we merge some smaller articles that were created as an expansion, but would be more rounded if was incorporated into this article. Example:
Herenthere (talk) 22:51, 7 January 2007
I can see the article still needs a bit of work. Here are some suggestions.
As time allows, I might help out a little bit. --Aude (talk) 01:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm moving this, which relates entirely to the subway, from the NYCTA article, in case any of it is useful here. --NE2 08:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
A policy of deferred maintenance (in which infrastructure was repaired only when absolutely necessary) instituted in the 1950s came home to roost by the early 1970s when fires, collisions, and derailments became more common. Public perceptions of deteriorating service were not helped by spray-painted graffiti. A persistent but minor problem since around 1970, it rapidly spread throughout the subway system from 1972 to 1974, by which time much of the system's trains and stations had been tagged with graffiti. While credible arguments have been made that some of it had artistic merit, the sheer volume and discordance of graffiti on both the interiors and exteriors of subway cars reinforced an impression for many that the entire system had slipped out of control. Perhaps the system's nadir was reached in 1981, when one day, approximately one-third of all subway cars in the system were not fit enough for service to leave the yards.
An ambitious series of capital programs begun in January 1982 (and continuing to this day) ended the policy of deferred maintenance and began to restore the system to a state of good repair. Although little visible progress was evident in the first Capital Program's early years, from 1984 to 1989 it gradually became evident that the subway system's reliability was improving and that graffiti -- due to an expanding policy which forbade trains from leaving their terminals with any graffiti on them -- was diminishing from view. Over the years, NYCTA has continued to upgrade its network image, including safer trains and stations, new MetroCard vending machines, easier-to-read maps, and cleaner trains. Cars also tend to be better maintained and have more reliable air-conditioning and heating than they used to. However, the decline of graffiti has been matched by the rise of scratchiti, where scribers, keys, razor blades or other sharp instruments are used to etch markings on windows and interior surfaces of the cars. While less noticeable and objectionable to some, it is a more permanent form of vandalism.
Upgrading the rail fleet includes replacement of older cars. The IRT Division phased out the 1959-1963 vintage Redbird cars in 2001-2002. The oldest cars remaining on the IRT lines are now the R62 model from 1983-1985, which are only at mid-service life. In the BMT and IND Division, planning is underway for the selective replacement of cars in the 1964-1974 R32, R38, R40, R40M, R42 and R44 cars.
Future NYCTA plans include the extension of the IRT Flushing Line to Manhattan's West Side by 2012, and a Lower Manhattan Transportation Center at the new World Trade Center. The 2nd Avenue Subway line is also in the advanced stages of planning and engineering and contracts for the construction of the first segment from 96th Street to 63rd Street along 2nd Avenue in Manhattan are expected sometime in 2006, with an expected opening date of 2012.
I removed this from the article:
"In January 2007, the MTA tentatively approved a ban on taking pictures and video on the subway system citing that the NYPD felt that it could deter terrorists. [1]"
The referenced article on NY1 (40174) is from May 26, 2004 (there was another similar article (45737) onNovember 30, 2004). NY1 articles from 2007 are in the 66xxx number range.
To Herenthere - do not confuse the date at the top of the page on NY1 with the date of the article. If you were to click on "Transit" from the main page on NY1 you will see that there is no article regarding photography listed.
--Allan 21:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
After reviewing other subway/metro articles, I am proposing to remove the Overview header in this article. As more and more info and images are added to the article, not only will the table of contents get wider, but each sub-section will deserve its own section. The overview title seems to be already implied in the introductory paragraphs. I welcome all comments.
In addition, I would also like to propose a renaming and reorganization of certain sections within Overview. The "Construction" section should be moved immediately after the History section and placed as a subsection since it is linked to the different methods used by differing companies when the subway was first opened. Also, the "Station" section should be renamed to "Station facilities and amenities" since some have stores, restrooms, etc.. Here is a sample layout with new subsections:
Introduction/Overview
History>Construction and design
Lines and routes>Depots
Station facilities and amenities>Restrooms and stores>Transfer stations>Connections (LIRR, MN, PATH)
Trains
Fares>Token>Metrocard>In planning (SmartLink card)
Future plans
Safety and security
Rolling stock
Trivia, See also, Refs, Ext Links
Herenthere (Talk) 21:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I have reorganized the article on April 13, 2007. Please help expand it even more, maybe one day it will be a FA. Please post comments here or on my talk page. Herenthere (Talk) 23:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Support
Oppose
Comments
So how should the "Overview" section before "Stations" be named? Are you proposing to remove those three paragraphs? Tinlinkin 06:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Personally I think the current system should be described before the history. --NE2 04:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
(Coming from a person who has never been to NYC) What is the average distance between the stations on the lines on Manhattan? Robbie aka Zoqaeski 14:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
It seems that the Trains section and the Rolling Stock section are duplicates.
Should these be merged those together?
Acps110 09:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I will add more as I find more. --NE2 17:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I made my way to this article by way of the NYC transportation project, and in light of that I have one area for improvement I see. In the "Fare" section, it starts by saying "From the beginning until 1948, the fare for a ride on the subway of any length was 5 cents" From the beginning is extremely vague, especially considering the subway system's long history. Did the five cent fare start when Alfred Ely Beach built the 312ft section in 1869? 1940, when two independent systems were bought by the city? Just could use some clarification. Seems like a great article otherwise! (Petruchi41 20:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC))
10 cents were charged on at least parts of the system(s) until the Culver Line was completed to Coney Island in 1920. --NE2 18:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I tried to edit part of the article, but my browser seems unable to load the end of the page. Could someone take the end part of the article and paste it back in from the previous revision?? Thanks, Optimusnauta 05:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Are there any subway buffs out there who can speak to the significance of the four-track, local and express service that is common on the New York City Subway? It is my understanding that this is somewhat unique in the world, and that the vast majority of subway systems provide only two-track, local-only service. If this is the case, this ought to be in the first paragraph, following the mention of the uniqueness of the 24-hour service. The Interloafer 05:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I came to this article hoping to get a general overview of what the train routes look like, etc, so that when I get around to visiting NYC, I will have a sense of how to get from point A to point B.
The third paragraph's mention of flying junctions would be interesting if I already knew the system inside and out, as would the detailed discussion of the color scheme later in the article. However, I'm not sure that's the right target audience for this article to be written for.
I think some of the railfan trivia might best be moved into other article(s), perhaps ones that have not yet been created.
JNW2 19:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I have reviewed this article according to the GA criteria and have failed this article at this time for several reasons. The main reason for failing this article is the lack of citations. There are many citation needed tags. Go through the article and make sure to add inline citations to any statements that may be questioned about their verifiability or consider removing them until you can find a reliable source for the information. Additionally, the logo in the infobox needs a fair use rationale and the trivia section needs to be removed. Once you have addressed these issues, please look over the rest of the criteria to see if the article is ready to be nominated again. If you disagree with this review, then you can seek an alternate opinion at Wikipedia:Good article review. If you have any questions about this review, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 08:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I put the overview back before the history section again, as it previously had been. Putting the history section first seems logical from a chronological standpoint, and seems natural to those of us who know the history of the system. However, someone reading this article for the first time, who is completely unfamiliar with the system, would get easily lost in all the names and technical concepts presented so quickly. They, the general audience who are using this encyclopedia as their introductory reference on the subject, should be served here.
In truth, had I more time, I'd rework the intro (before the table of contents) into a single paragraph, and move some of the info there into an expanded overview. It's just good style to build on levels of detail. First the most basic, almost dictionary-like definition. Then put the more filled-out, but still general info. Then put the series of sections on particular topics, i.e, history, nomenclature, rolling stock, etc.
Just my $0.02 - oknazevad 23:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Together with its bus operations, it is the most extensive public transportation system in the world, with 468 reported passenger stations,
Um... Together with the bus operations, there are exponentially more than 468 stations! 468 is obviously referring to the number of subway stations, but it can easily be read as that subway and bus combined have 468 stations. -newkai t-c 03:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
What does this mean: "Among the ten busiest systems in the world in terms of annual passenger traffic, it is the only one to hold such a distinction, setting it apart from cities such as London, Paris, Tokyo, and Moscow." What distinction? How is it set apart from the systems of London, Paris etc?Shrdlu junction 05:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The past 3 edits by HManat32 removed the image of the token and the video of the 7 train arriving without giving an explanation in the edit summary. Should we add it back? -Herenthere (Talk) 17:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
i dont see anything about the secret basement. i learned about it on the history channel, so i think it relible.Д narchistPig (talk) 01:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I notice the "Complaints" section mentions both overcrowded subway lines and the inaccuracy of the subway map. However, it doesn't mention as another complaint the limited transit options for those who live in eastern Queens and Staten Island (with respect to both subways and bus service). Also, the subway map section doesn't mention the fact that eastern Queens past the subway line is pretty much squashed into nonexistence on the map displayed in the subways, despite the fact that it's almost as large as the subway'd part of Queens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.157.216 (talk) 01:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
How voltage and power type are use on the New York City Subway?? Sorry, but I am from Poland and I don't goot speek english. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.114.149.150 (talk) 18:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I propose the deletion of image from the Photography section of Safety and Security, because it does not aid in the understanding of the article's subject and is unnessessary. M173627 (talk) 14:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Sufitul (talk) 14:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)