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Archive 1 |
"Beyond walking distance"?? Who defined "suburb" that way? A suburb is by definition outside of the city limits. Merely being beyond walking distance from the city's center doesn't put you in a suburb, unless the city is small enough. Michael Hardy 22:16, 20 March 2003 (UTC)
I'm surprised that we don't have anything on anti-suburban movements, that sort of thing. Rhymeless 07:37, 1 June 2004 (UTC)
Is Virginia Beach really still considered a suburb? With nearly half a million people, it is the biggest city in Virginia. Michael Hardy 23:14, 24 June 2004 (UTC)
Anaheim and Santa Ana, CA, are not suburbs; both are anchor cities in Southern California. Both Anaheim and Santa Ana have over 350,000 residents apiece.
Santa Ana, a major hub of business and industry, is the second most densely populated major city in the western United States after San Francisco. Santa Ana is a major government center, home to U.S. Federal buildings, U.S. Federal Court House, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Courts of Appeals, has branches of the California Government based in it, and is headquarters to the Orange County Government, which oversees the nearly 3.5 million residents of Orange County.
The two cities are both destination points, which commuters and consumers drive to each morning. Anaheim, Santa Ana, and their neighboring cities are home to several Fortune 500 company headquarters and the regional and national headquarters to many major corporations.
Before the 1950s’ Anaheim did meet the definition of a suburb; however, that changed with the explosive growth in Southern California over the past half century.
http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/lfmonth/oran$PDS.pdf
Flyingarrow 03:52, 29 March 2005 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to list three cities that Mesa is bigger than, and thirteen (!) smaller than Mississauga? I propose that one prominent example for each would be sufficient. Anyone agree? -- Gellersen 09:12, 24 June 2005 (UTC)
-History-
The History section needs more actual history. In the Geography of Nowhere, the author states that Llewelyn Park in New Jersey was the first American suburb - being a town where everyone commuted to work in either Newark or New York City.
i live in Billerica which is a suburb or Boston MA...people in this suburb try to act like they are from the city as if that would make them cool personally i dont like suburbs Voldpotter 17:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Would a favela be considered a suburb in the same sense as the bidonvilles or shanty-towns? I've put in the reference but if it's inappropriate someone should take it out again. HDC 07:47, 19 March 2005 (UTC)
Directly conflicting statements in paragraphs three and five under 'semantics' with respect to Australia. Which is it--merely residential neighbourhood outside of a city or...?
Also, use in US is more fluid than the paragraph under sematics suggests. Often means simply a residential area outside of a city. Quill 03:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Keep this article as it is! This article when merged with suburnia will not be as good as it kept in this state! (Unsigned)
I think merging is a good idea. CarolGray 12:24, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
I do not think so at all.
Not a good idea. Suburbia also has a cultural connotation that doesn't belong in Suburbs. --BWD (talk) 18:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Reject I agree with BWD, Suburbia is a concept different thant the suburbs, that has to do wiht uniformity adn conformity.--Mrdthree 22:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Reject I'd agree with the above a 'suburb' is a functional term used in planning or the charcter area of a settlment 'suburbia' is more of a concept Bjrobinson 19:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Note to whoever tries to merge with suburb again. If you are going to merge with suburb do a better job or dont try.-- an encyclopedia should not be losing information.Mrdthree 17:42, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the mentions of Virginia Beach. Virginia Beach is the product of a city-county merger and therefore really is not comparable to suburban municipalities like Beverly Hills or Berkeley. It is more comparable to a jurisdiction like Baltimore County, Maryland, which most people would not refer to as "a suburb." In addition, Virginia Beach has its own downtown (sort of), and could legitimately be called "a city near Norfolk" rather than "a suburb of Norfolk." -- Mwalcoff 02:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
The term is used in Canada the same as is it in Britain, etc. The section of this article seems to imply that it is used here like the definition given for American English. I've never heard of a suburb as being outside of city limits before — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sensfan3789 (talk • contribs) 01:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I have - Surrey, Burnaby, Langley, Maple Ridge, &c are referred to as "suburbs" of Vancouver - all of which are spearate municipalities in their own rights (that is, electing their own councils, &c).
The term is used exactly as it is in America. Do you actually live in Canada because your claim is hard to believe. There are plenty of examples of suburbs outside of a main city.70.72.83.190 (talk) 10:19, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
I have removed this sentence from the "Controversy" section:
"It is thought by some people that many residents of the suburbs seem to embrace elitism, racism, homophobia and all around xenophobia."
For one, it was grammatically inconsistent with the structure of the list. Secondly, it talks about suburban residents rather than suburbs themselves. I also doubt that suburbs are more homophobic than central cities, except perhaps in places like NYC and San Francisco. -- Mwalcoff 23:01, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Two sections about this, suggest deleting one.
Someone changed the UK section of "Semantics" to make it read as if British people use the word like Americans do. But I know that, for instance, Clifton, Bristol is called a "suburb" even though it is in the inner part of the city. Can someone please clarify that section? Thanks -- Mwalcoff 02:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps adding in this area as an example. With a total metro area population of roughly 3 million, yet only 600,000 or so in the cities themselves, is seems a perfect example of urban sprawl. -- Steelcobra 20:44, 14 June 2006
-I agree — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.243.177.46 (talk • contribs) 13:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
It's kind of silly to have a list of movies and TV shows with suburbia references - that would encompass 2/3 of the American sitcoms made over the past 35 years. There's no reason why some have been mentioned, and others haven't. That whole section could be reduced to a couple of paragraphs saying something like "many works of 20th-century art and culture, especially since WWII, have been set in, or have commented on, the role of suburbia in modern life," IMHO.
I started to try editing it down, but gave up after removing one particularly egregious discussion of one move; there's no reason some should be mentioned and not others. I think the entire list of movies and songs should be removed entirely. Or perhaps create a whole new article, such as Suburbs in pop culture, where all the fancruft could be dumped. - DavidWBrooks 10:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The references to suburbs and suburbia in popular culture are so many, that a list of popluar works dealing with, taking place in, or being somehow related to, suburbs, is impossible to maintain, not to mention unencyclopedic. The same goes for the list of songs. I therefore deleted both these sections.
I aknowledge the impact of suburbs and suburbia on popular culture, and a section dealing with this could concievably be a good thing, but then it should be a section, in prose form, of the general impact. Not a list of random examples.
Please read wikipedia:trivia before re-creating any of the deleted sections.Dr bab 12:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I've renamed the Controversy Section -> Public Health and Environmental Impact. I couldn't find much evidence of controversy while researching this section so I think it is a misleading section name. The claims in the section appear to be agreed upon by most planners. Please let me know if anyone disagrees. Midwestmax 22:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. The [Urban Sprawl]] article may be the more appropriate place for "controversy." Why not simply refer to that article? Phmalo 00:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The "components" section should either be eliminated or largely changed. While it's true that sprip malls, office parks and subdivisions are typical of postwar U.S. suburban development, they do not define it -- many suburbs do not have those characteristics. -- Mwalcoff 22:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
This section is also massivly US-centric. -- Tom. 19 June 2008 (BST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.195.198 (talk) 12:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The history section of this article has a number of sentences that need citations. I will work on cleaning this up. Also, I am going to remove the initial paragraphs that discuss Mesopotamian and Roman "suburbs." These ancient communities outside of the city were not suburbs in the modern sense. Please let me know if anyone disagrees. Midwestmax 23:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
This article paints a very negative view. I guess all the people moving into the suburbs are just simply irrational. GregInCanada 03:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. People vote with their feet (or automobiles). I'm partial to Bruegman's views. Phmalo 00:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a major problem with this article's "tone". Just look at the "see also" section.
I lived in a old part of a city, before zoning. I had an auto repair shop just 15 feet from the back of my apartment. Beginning at 7:30am, air tools started. At the same location, I was 200 feet from a factory that made windows. At 10pm 6 nights a week, a 30-60 second sound of breaking glass occured as a front-end loader dumped glass into a dumpster. This is exactly why suburbs came into existance.
This article is full of stereotypes. The "see also" section includes: Conspicuous consumption, Consumerism, Herd instinct, Herd behaviour, Over-consumption, and White people.
I recommend taking down this artilce until it is rewritten with a proper balanced tone.
Suburbs I don't believe are particular to zoning. Zoning is common practice to most cities influenced by post WW2 Euro-American planing policies, most noticebly the ideas of the CIAM (collective of architects). Suburban identity is found through several factors: 1. Nature of Built Form, commonly low to medium density single dwellings and repditive in construction typology. 2. Values, preference for investment in or desire for, material ownership of livable property and/or dwelling. 3. Lifestyle, preference for closer relationship to natural and/or social environment. 4. Planning Approach, somewhat championed by Frank Lloyd Wright, the reliance of inhabitants on private, automobile transport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.211.158 (talk) 15:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Not only is it biased, it's confusing issues. Suburbs may be urban and transit-oriented in nature, this article confuses urban sprawl and suburbs, which may be often one and the same but are not always. There are plenty of transit-oriented suburbs out there. Plus it makes it seem like suburbs are responsible for all our evils in society. I'm going to scrap large parts of this article (rightly so).--Rotten 22:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to pare down, trim and consolidate the claims against suburbs into a single, smaller section. This article is obscenely long as it is. Let me know if anyone has any objections.--Rotten 22:30, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I am puzzled as to the absence of Greater London not topping the current list of largest suburbs worldwide. Am I missing something? Isn't central London around 7 million with Greater London adding about a further 7 million? Therefore London's suburban population must be some 7 million. Why is it excluded? Thanks. Tumblingsky 14:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Greater London has only 7.5 million inhabitants. Central London has only 2.8 million inhabitants Greater London is the city.. so the 7.5 million inhabitants of Greater London officialy don't live in the suburbs. Minato ku (talk) 18:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
In the American sense of suburb, the suburbs of London are the 2million or so people who live in Metropolitan London but outside Greater London. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 16:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The "strip mall" link redirects to the play "strip-mall' when it should redirect to the article about "strip-malls'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.45.254.11 (talk • contribs) 02:18, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I'ts been corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Runt (talk • contribs) 3:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is about The Suburb, and the charactaristics, shortcomings, commuting difficulties, sociology and psychology of the suburbs, difficulty for pedestrians, and other mechanical characteristics of the suburbs. Yet, in the Austrian section of the article, all there is is telling about individual suburbs, and telling about it's/their various attractions.
This is irrelevent, and takes away from the article. If a person wants to tell about the various sports teams, activities and other charming things about of an individual suburb, they should be told about in a seperate article about that particular suburb. Whoever wrote all of that "chamber of commerce" type of information about specific suburbs and their attractions is missing the point of this particlular article. Slater79 22:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Suburbanisation seems to cover much of the same ground as suburb. It makes sense that the article relating to the suburb also covers the process (suburbanisation). --Joopercoopers 12:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
No, don't merge, the suburb article is long enough and suburbanization involves more than just the creation of suburbs.futurebird (talk) 01:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Reject These articles should NOT be merged. The suburbs article is already quite long and still has the potential to expand. The suburbs article should be a description of what the suburbs are. The suburbanization article should be an article about the effects (good or bad) of suburbanization. HeWasCalledYClept (talk) 20:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I find it kind of tasteless that a picture of columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado is used to show a suburban HS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.115.103 (talk) 00:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, it can imply an unfounded cause & effect. 68.180.38.31 (talk) 01:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
According to Jza84 various districts around the outskirts of Liverpool, that are outside the actual boundary of the council but nevertheless form part of the city, its people and culture, are not suburbs...places like Huyton and Kirkby. These places exist in their own right but are also heavily linked to the city of Liverpool. Hence, suburb. The inhabitants are commonly referred to as scousers and many are Liverpool born. And just because they are not within the city boundary does not mean they are not Liverpool in general terms, it is an insult to their inhabitants !!!! 79.76.187.182 (talk) 22:51, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Dmcm2008 (talk) 23:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
The Reason for the suburbs is due to the benefits of the GI bill. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.31.108.247 (talk) 03:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Suburbs are often critisized for -cookie cutter housing -lack of grid system/lack of public transport -lack of diversity -lack of sidewalks -Ugliness
We need a unbiased section on how suburbs are criticized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.243.177.46 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Then that would need to be balanced with a criticism of high density, which entails higher prices, more crime, more noise, less privacy, more pollution, more traffic, less nature, etc. 68.180.38.31 (talk) 01:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Will you shut up? Do you have evidence that those things are true?
-What the hell do you mean cookie cutter housing? You mean it's all the same? Not true. My neighbourhood isn't. You're thinking of a gated community.
-We use a hydro system, better for the environment than the BS that anyone else uses.
-Seriously now, do you have evidence? How about you come to my neighbourhood and then you speak.
-We have sidewalks, get over it.
-Our houses are beautiful, so shut the hell up asshole.
Everything you said WAS biased, I doubt you even live in a suburb, you likely live in a city, which is 10X worse for the environment.
High density? How does that entail higher prices? Nope, no crime here that you wouldn't find in the city. A few firecrackers go off now and again, a couple of attempted muggings, and I think we have a crack dealer, but anyways, you'd find that about 10X worse in the city. We don't have ANY traffic. That's the city. Honestly, are you retarded? More pollution. You have... no... just no... shut your mouth, now. Less nature... yeah, because in the city, you guys are all about green.
Don't spread your BS around here, got that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.19.186 (talk)
Definitely would agree with the previous post. Criticisms was also the first thought that came to my mind. Experience of Australian suburban pattens present in all major cities are an increasing problem for efficiency and quality of life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.211.158 (talk) 14:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
The entire components section is extremely similar to the wording used in the first chapter of the book Suburban Nation by Andres Duany, Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, and Jeff Speck. I'm not sure where the exact line should be drawn with respect to paraphrasing, but it certainly at least needs to be referenced.
The text of the first chapter can be seen on Amazon.
Example: From the book: "Office parks and business parks. There are places only for work. Derived from the modernist architectural vision of the building standing free in the park..."
From the Wiki article: "Office parks, also known as business parks or corporate campuses. Derived from the modernist architectural vision of the building standing free in a parklike setting..."
--Derigiberble (talk) 22:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Part of the problem is that the U.S. seems to dominate this article, in particular in the lead. Other countries need to be described and mentioned along with the U.S. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
FYI, I've just removed a large amount of content. Banned User:Jvolkblum plagiarized much of the content from a web site. Compare the Criticism section and United States section to this AmericanCity.org article. Much of the content is taken word for word, and where Jvolkblum changed the wording, he botched it ("the rise of a hip 'creative class,'" changed to "the rise of a the 'creative class'"). This is a very nice example of why we keep banned people banned. —Wknight94 (talk) 12:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Something needs to be done about the US section. From what it looks like on this talk page people thought there wasn't enough content from a non US perspective, like everyone in America has the same textbook definition of suburb, so they crammed a whole bunch of myths or popular rumors about it into that one little part. From my own humble opinion, a suburb is simply a neighborhood usually showcasing single family homes instead of densely populated urban centers, obviously not a part of the inner city or downtown, therefore somewhere outside of it. Nothing more. Nothing less. Rodiggidy (talk) 00:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Seems to me this is an important list, likely to become large especially if it gets its own article, the likes of Bibliography of Eastern Orthodoxy in America or Phage monographs or other topics deserving their own bibliographical articles. Jim.henderson (talk) 23:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
according to jim should be added. it's one of the best family shows ever and it plays in a chicago suburb. please add it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.109.44 (talk • contribs) 23:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
We or atleast I do not want to know about its usuage and emthoyology (???).... :)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.86.12 (talk) 00:45:19, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Since clearly the history depicted there is American history, it should not be presented as the definative history of global suburbia but rather of its US variant. If no one objects I will move it shortly. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 20:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Please consider adding a note about the album "the suburbs" by Arcade Fire. I believe it's widespread critical acclaim and unified theme of suburbia to be worth note. (uh.. sorry but I don't know how to sign this) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.184.192.221 (talk) 01:27, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
a suburban community is very quite its like you are in a place full of people sleeping and its like you are about to fall asleep —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.85.114 (talk) 22:04, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the overly long list of "sources" and "bibliography" (after checking) - there is no evidence they are used in the article. There is evidence at least some where simply added at random to the list. Even if used, how can the reader figure out which book out of several dozens was used where, not to mention the page of that book? Materialscientist (talk) 23:43, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
I would like to propose the removal of the picture of Kensington Gore from the article, sine Kensington (an affluent inner-city district of London) is like a suburb in neither character, nature nor geography. Any thoughts? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Suburbia (1999), Owens & Shimshack] (see also Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Noodleki). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 02:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
As for suburbs in Italy (usually known as periferia, English periphery), I agree that the case of Rome mentioned in the page is quite exemplar and, in particular, Italian suburbs come across as low-class neighborhoods, often poorly-manicured and filled with public housing. They are very different from the American and British pattern, also in the very culture of the country (I might mention several songs and movies that hint at this particular status of Italian suburbs).
That's different when you get out of the city boundaries, right into the city province, where suburbs are relative small towns that, just like Italian big cities, have got a long history going back to centuries ago and are not a consequence of the urban sprawl of the 19th and 20th century - unless you mean the urban sprawl of the original small town center into the surrounding lands, likewise the sprawl within a big city municipality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.40.36.45 (talk) 01:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
These two statements seem to be contradictory:
I don't think both can be true, can they? Kendall-K1 (talk) 03:23, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 March 2020 and 11 June 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): KevDuguay. Peer reviewers: Rnguyenhist463uo, Ghodsonuo.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:23, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
A suburban area has a certain "feel" to it. A suburb is more specific. For instance: Staten Island is the most suburban of New York City's boroughs. However, Staten Island is NOT a suburb of New York City, as it's part of the city proper. In contrast, Newark, New Jersey is not suburban, it's almost completely urban. Yet, the city of Newark is, indeed, a suburb of New York City, as it's a smaller municipality within close proximity to the dominant city.
Should this somehow be clarified in the article? 73.194.85.220 (talk) 14:58, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
The only citation in this section is broken and in general the section is sort of a mess.
The first line reads: "Suburbs typically have longer travel times to work than traditional neighborhoods." Besides not having a working citation, this is also misleading because the mean difference in commute times for people who live and work inside the principal city of a metro area and commute times for people who live and work outside the principal city of a metro area is pretty modest in the United States. See Table Five in the US Census Bureau's "Commuting in the United States: 2009" American Community Survey Report. We're talking less than a minute's difference, on average. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:458A:6D00:F4BA:FECD:79E5:D1F2 (talk) 20:34, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:07, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
In the first line of the synopsis, a recent change suggests that a suburb may be a commercial area, in addition to the previously-added, subsequently-mentioned mixed-use and residential categories. The added citation does not seem to entirely corroborate this, and instead seems to refer to the commercial components of a mixed-used suburb. I suggest this change be reversed until more evidence can be shown for the existence of commercial-only suburbs, which, at least to my own knowledge, do not exist. Blackjackrobo (talk) 04:39, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
Well in the US , on major intersections in suburban areas they specifically have the intersections listed for commercial uses. You can’t build houses there , they are only listed as commercial. Maybe I’ll look further into it. But yeah I’m the same guy my up Ip adresss keeps changing.
"A suburb (or suburban area or suburbia) is a commercial, mixed-use or residential area" is so vague as to effectively describe any area used by people as a "suburb". I don't see what's "very British" about the addition of "located between the exurbs and city centres of a metropolitan area"; it's vague enough to apply to any of the regional descriptions given in the article without being so vague as to be completely meaningless. A British description would talk about "countryside" instead of "exurbs" and would specify only residential areas. -- Scyrme (talk) 13:31, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
(Same guy) Well there is another problem in the US. It’s the existence Principle cities. There can be multiple principle cities in a metropolitan area unlike Canada which only ever has one. Those principle cities wouldn’t be considered suburbs due to their employment numbers. Just look at the Los Angeles area on this link (for example) there are many principle cities. US Cencus page As far as the “commercial” thing goes, I’ll try to find a better reference for commercial zoning in areas outside of major downtowns. I know every strip mall built is zoned as commercial in the United States. Usually Midwest cities are just giant suburbs with 3 tall buildings at best. Most employment is not near downtown. Give me a few days to find a better reference on that zoning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.98.179.38 (talk) 06:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)