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Death metal is incredibly fitting. leave it at that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrathful God (talk • contribs) 00:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Why don't we just say "TBDM is an Extreme Metal band" and then add a genre section to the article?
96.234.65.135 (talk) 09:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC) Jack Bauar
Wrong. Extreme Metal can be ANY of those genres. And they certainly combine (even if very small) elements of Death, Black, and Thrash.
96.234.65.135 (talk) 23:12, 24 January 2009 (UTC) Jack Bauar
I understand a consensus was reached, and I (as well as hundreds of other people) completely, 100% disagree with the verdict. TBDM is not a metalcore band. They sound like a Gothenburg Melodeath band. Their DEMOS were metalcore. So if anything the opening sentence should not have metalcore in it, and them we put "Metalcore (earlier works)" in the infobox. The only reason we're at such a debate is because of danteferno. He never adds anything to an artice. HE ALWAYS just fucks up a perfectly fine article. (This isn't the first time he went trigger-happy with metalcore on an article.) Oh and before you guys start whining "NO PERSONAL ATTACKS", I'm not making a personal attack. I'm just stating a fact.
96.234.65.135 (talk) 06:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC) Jack Bauar
I have removed "metalcore" and "melodic death metal" from the genres section for the time being. This is not due to any personal feelings I have on the band or their music: I've actually never much listened to them. I removed them because they were given with non reliable sources: one was metal blade, and a band's own label is not a reliable source on their genre; the other was an interview with "Way Too Loud". Whether such a source could be considered reliable at all is debatable, and in this case it certainly can't for "metalcore", because only the band themselves use that term, and even then jokingly. If anyone wants to add more genres, do it with good sources please. I realise there has been significant debate on the genre already; however, I can't bring myself to trawl through so many trolls/flames/personal attacks to find the occasional solid message. If sources were turned up in the discussion here, all you have to do is put them onto the page itself. Prophaniti (talk) 23:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
And I'm removing the metalcore genre since the source is invalid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.252.190 (talk) 19:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Why isn't it removed yet? It's still on their. And for any one that doesn't think they're Melodic Death metal just go watch an interview on you tube with Trevor. He clearly states that they are MELODIC DEATH METAL. He evan mentioned how it would piss him off when people would call them metalcore<--9/15/2009-->
Instead of arguing about what the band said and did not say, listen to their music! How can you find a single metalcore influence in it? That's the reason why they're not metalcore.
(2FireCrystal) I am confused as to why you're confused? Is it because of the long-running genre disagreement? or is it that you don't feel a genre box in a band's article who plays within that genre is appropriate? But then, why would you think that? .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`. 21:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
so loads of talk about the concensus that was reached in some debate, alot of good it is if noone can see the debate to know why this was agreed. and in my opinion the sources for metalcore is a load of shite.The-deejjj (talk) 14:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC) surfing around i can find only good sources for death metal and deathcore, revolver and metal hammer, but nothing reliable for metalcoreThe-deejjj (talk) 14:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
so...like The-deej said, apparently there was a consensus on the genre debate? To add my opinion, I cannot see in any way how TBDM can be called a metalcore band. I have listened to basically all their stuff and it seems apparent that they are death metal. Metalcore isn't as aggressive/intense (better wording?) and also includes clean vocals. Example of metalcore bands are All That Remains, Trivium, As I Lay Dying, early Avenged Sevenfold, Demon Hunter, The Devil Wears Prada, Killswitch Engage, Protest the Hero, etc. Death metal sounds like DevilDriver, At the Gates, Here Comes the Kraken, In Flames, Behemoth, Echovirus, early All That Remains etc. Now, which does TBDM sound more like? cheese (talk) 23:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Ok...thanks for giving me the points but: first death metal is technically "hardcore" unless you mean hardcore punk. Second, the types of bands that they play in doesn't make that their other bands genre (for example Tim McIlrath of Rise Against was in a metalcore band. That doesn't make Rise Against's genre metalcore). Third, the bands that they tour with doesn't define their genre (e.g. All That Remains once toured with Divine Heresy, a melodic death metal band, while touring in support of their album The Fall of Ideals). cheese (talk) 03:01, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
So like i said...you never see articles with multiple genres at the beginning, and even if you did, all would be included not just one. All are in the infobox. It is pointless to add them especially when heavy metal relates to the others. Just leave it. cheese (talk) 23:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
How is this not debating??? And yes, I know there are two separate articles. But you don't see other people saying "TBDM IS A HEAVY METAL/MELODIC DEATH METAL/DEATHCORE/METALCORE BAND." That is because it's really not needed. It is all in the infobox, not the beginning of the article. And the citation I removed went to an error on the site when I clicked on it. Also, just to let you know, you are the only one saying that they are metalcore... cheese (talk) 23:03, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Adding on...examples of other articles:Trivium - doesn't say thrash metal/metalcore, In Flames - doesn't say melodic death metal/alternative metal (which is present in their later albums), Becoming the Archetype - doesn't say death metal/metalcore/progressive metal, The Ascendicate - doesn't say Metalcore/alternative metal, Slipknot - doesn't say nu metal/alternative metal, etc. An example outside of metal is Linkin Park - doesn't say nu metal/alternative rock. I don't see why TBDM's article would be any different and have two genres at the beginning when a list of their genres is in the infobox, like i've been saying. cheese (talk) 00:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
K, the source "http://www.musicmight.com/artist/united+states/michigan/detroit/the+black+dahlia+murder" leads to an error page, if it is to stay up, surealy a nw RELIABLE source must be found.The-deejjj (talk) 00:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Wouldn´t it be true to say that the genres metalcore and deathcore are very undefined and probably just words that have come around as the genre death metal has evolved. The younger crowd of today needed a label of their own to a genra that traditionally had been accisiated with things the new bands no longer stands for. except for more advanced recordings and new themes in the lyrics I´s say we´re still talking death metal. I think the article should state that they are adeath metal band, and maybe mention something about them being among this newer generation of bands that are being called deathcore and metalcore.83.255.160.28 (talk) 09:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
That aside, let me focus on the source that apparently justifies calling this band metalcore. To be honest, the reference does not mention anything at all about the band. How it is being used as a good source is beyond me. I would not believe it at all if somebody were to say that they really looked hard to find a good reference to justify calling them this incorrect genre.
Furthermore, the fact that the #2 and #4 references are the EXACT SAME THING just shows to me that there really was no thought put into this whole genre thing.
The result of the move request was page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
The Black Dahlia Murder → The Black Dahlia Murder (band) — The Black Dahlia murder was the brutal murder of Elizabeth Short. The band should really be moved for specification. The Black Dahlia murder has been the result for several film and book adaptations, along with several references to the murder. (see here). --Krazycev 13 other crap 21:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
The don't play metalcore or deathcore. They're straight melo-death. They have not so much melody or clean vocals, so that makes them not metalcore. Deathcore is almost like death metal, it has way more down-tuned guitars with growls. That makes TBDM not even deathcore. They're simply a heavy band with some melody once in a while and mostly pitch up vocals, the definition of melodic death metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.217.193 (talk) 16:06, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
---Just because a source says this band is metalcore or deathcore doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone that know ANYTHING about death metal, metalcore, or deathcore knows this band is straight up melodic death metal. It is a fact. Just because Trevor says some metalcore bands are good and he likes the way the hardcore community is doesn't mean BDM are metalcore or deathcore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by XhawkingX (talk • contribs) 03:16, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, but the problem with using themselves as a source, is that it's first party. Not a third party source, which under guidlines give priority, as it were, too third party sources. 108.15.17.159 (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
They have a similiar sound to the original Gothenburg bands (In Flames, At The Gates, etc.) Therefore, they must be a Gothenburg band, aka melodic death metal. Yeah, they're gonna sound metalcore to some, because some of the leading metalcore bands (such as As I Lay Dying) took influence from melodeath music. Case closed... Well, probably not, but atleast I gave some input, I guess... 209.106.46.161 (talk) 15:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Just because we're loud and better than everyone else doesn't mean we aren't included in a band. Where's Shannon, the drummer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.92.44 (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
On Wednesday June 6th, 2011 , the Black Dahlia Murder posted at 2:03 Pm 'We Ain't "Deathcore"...' via Facebook. This settles the argument of the band being classified as "Deathcore" Not to say that a multitude of bands that are Deatchore haven't been on tour with the band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.57.161.22 (talk) 07:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
If you look at the article for deatchore, the characteristic that differentiates the genre from death metal is breakdowns (as in the slow tempo kind). I have never heard that in a TBDM song. It stays at a single tempo.
Plus, as others have pointed out, the source isn't even valid. If consensus is based off of untrustworthy sources, then I cannot trust said consensus.
And if the main article labels them as metalcore and deathcore, how come it's not the same for any of the articles for their albums or EPs? Not to mention that they're not mentioned anywhere on the "List of deathcore artists" page. I have heard deathcore, and it sounds nothing like THBM.
Now sorry, if I've made anyone mad. I am relatively new to these parts of the site. It's just this oversight disturbs me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gigakoops (talk • contribs) 04:49, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
It was announced by the band that Max Levelle is officially replacing Bart Williams. Please do not remove the edits for this. Link Xombie (talk) 21:37, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
So sorry but The Black Dahlia Murder is neither metalcore nor deathcore. The ONLY reference that cites them as being these genres is a website called MusicMight http://www.musicmight.com/artist/united+states/michigan/detroit/the+black+dahlia+murded This source is unreliable (the band's name is even spelled incorrectly in the url) and uses no evidence to support The Black Dahlia Murder being either metalcore or deathcore. Metalcore is characterized by breakdowns, screamed (and sometimes almost yelled) vocals, and oftentimes clean singing. The Black Dahlia Murder exhibits none of these characteristics (Trevor Strnad employs the use of death growls that are exclusively used in DEATH METAL and high-pitched screeches that are commonly used in many melodic death metal acts.). In not one song by them that they've released they've any "breakdowns" that would classify them as a metalcore or deathcore band. Deathcore shares many characteristics of metalcore [i.e. breakdowns] but there is usually no clean singing. Deathcore is simply metalcore tuned down with less singing and more screaming. Again, Trevor Strnad does not scream like deathcore/metalcore vocalists do. The Black Dahlia Murder's songs are undeniably death metal. And the guitars are melodic too (metalcore and especially not deathcore are by NO MEANS melodic at all). TBDM IS MELODIC DEATH METAL. And one more thing, why is it that that they're listed as being metalcore and deathcore but on not one of their albums does it say such things? Hmm? I'm taking the liberty, as a denizen of Wikipedia, to change the genres until someone provides an adequate reason as to why they are metalcore or deathcore. (: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plungerman14 (talk • contribs) 03:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
I have fully-protected the page for one week because of the edit-warring over the genres. I think this would be an excellent time to try dispute resolution - would you be willing to file a new request at the dispute resolution noticeboard? They're generally very good at handling things like this. Hopefully we can find a solution that you're all happy with. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 14:06, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
So would this be enough to remove the completely wrong Metalcore label from the genre box? http://www.underthegunreview.net/2011/06/11/review-the-black-dahlia-murder-ritual/
"Often MISLABELED as a metalcore act, The Black Dahlia Murder have been delivering on their melodic death metal sound full-force since the 2003 release of Unhallowed." Seems like a legit site to me too. And if you won´t remove it, at least add "(early)" to the metalcore genre like another user has suggested (because even the band admits that their early demos were very hardcore influenced, but after that they just started to play straight-forward melodic death metal). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.80.253.12 (talk) 00:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
in section musical styles and influences, there's a dead link for deathcore.--195.29.156.245 (talk) 18:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
WILL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THEY'RE NOT METALCORE?!?!?!??!????!????!?!?!??!??!??!?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.145.213.170 (talk) 19:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Title speaks for itself. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KzAmKxIArGk#!
I would edit the page myself but it's semi-protected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.67.98.195 (talk) 00:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
In addition, their new single is called "Into the Everblack" not "Enter the Everblack." as seen on Metal Blade's official youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSoPRG3_ngI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.173.129.55 (talk) 07:50, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/The_Black_Dahlia_Murder/5450
Well known site in the metal community, hardcore/metalcore bands do not even get listed here, and they're simply listed here as "Melodic Death Metal." --121.99.64.157 (talk) 06:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Added it, still confused why some people think that just because someone published a book that calls them metalcore that this is considered reliable. Shreddakj (talk) 07:07, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Yeah... i don't get it either. The authors of those books probably checked Wikipedia themselves when doing research on the band... and saw that "metalcore" was listed as one of their genres so they just went with it. It's just a vicious circle. Even Metallum has removed the metalcore label from their TBDM page, and they're one of the most elitist sites out there when it comes to metal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.80.209.181 (talk) 01:05, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Apteva (talk) 03:35, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
The Black Dahlia Murder (band) → The Black Dahlia Murder – It doesnt need the the "(band)" part because there is no other article with this name so it isnt need to differentiate the separate articles, because as again there are none. BlackDragon 22:43, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
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The black dahlia murder up until around 2007 were A deathcore band. The genre labels on there read "melodic death metal/death metal" where as they should read "melodic death metal/Deathcore (early)".
Their music before and including their album "Nocturnal" was quite similar to early Melodic metalcore although obviously without the clean guitar.... there's also A lot of similarities with late 90s hatebreed and Earth crisis (mainly the riffs and drums, although earth crisis's screaming vocals are quite similar as well.) although with A lower level of Hardcore punk present (obviously because deathcore being A mixture of Metalcore/melodic metalcore and Brutal death metal/deathgrind (like suffoction and dying fetus.) There's going to be less hardcore punk influence than Metallica hardcore.
The Red Chord's first release (after their Demo in 1991) titled "Fused Together in Revolving Doors" Sounds well more like Death metal (especially brutal death metal.) than the Black dahlia murder did even in 2007 and it is usually considered A deathcore release (as well as fitting the characteristics).
The Black Dahlia's album Nocturnal (which by far shares closest resemblance to death metal out of any of their early releases.) sounds VERY similar to All shall perish's "the price of existence" which is also a deathcore release (Which was released around the same time.) but the black dahlia's release was less technical and with less clean guitar passages as well as less growling vocals.
This is off "the price of existence" (2006) It's one of the least "death metal" songs on the album, it bares A lot of resemblance to the Black dahlia murder's song linked below (the others are A lot cleaner and more technical.) (All shall perish) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcDUZi-_cU this is A track off of their album Nocturnal 2007(the black dahlia murder) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwbj2gzzTpk This is A track from the Red Chord's 2002 release - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKA1IMMisRM&list=PL7F579BCB30D085B0 (this song obviously has A more prominent Death metal sound than the others on the album.)
My point is the Black Dahlia murder were never A straight Death metal band (if you'd like links to straight death metal bands I'm happy to oblige.) and their only Death metal material is their Melodic death metal material... which was only starting to become present after 2007 (and even their Melodic death metal material sounds more like deathcore than Melodic death metal.)
I'm not asking you to remove their Melodic death metal label although it's A very controversial label (as it could go either way.) I'm asking you to replace the DEATH METAL label with "Deathcore (early)" as all of their earlier Material is pretty standard 2002-2008 Deathcore.
49.180.123.62 (talk) 20:44, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Actually, The Red Chord have always been considered a Deathgrind band primarily, in the vein of bands like Misery Index. That's another reason why i think labling these "borderline" bands (although i personally hear no core whatsoever in TBDM's music) is a bit pointless. People can't even decide if they are Metalcore OR Deathcore. It just seems to me that bands like these get these labels thrown on them because they have a more modern sound and, not because their music has any actual "core" elements (Sylosis was another one of these cases for a while). And let's not forget that the image of the band is kind of important in this case too. TBDM are notorious for not taking themselves too seriously and, for the most part, not looking like your typical metalhead (The vocalist is a chubby dude with short curly hair and no facial hair). Pretty much every single music video they've made after "Funeral Thrist" and "Contagion" have been nothing but comic relief and footage of them acting goofy in public places and this and metal don't really mix in a lot of people's eyes. But i do agree with you that "Deflorate" kinda marked a change in their sound, where they dropped the modern stylings and went with a more old-school approach. Undoubtedly because they were sick of the dumb labels. Well, that's just my 2 cents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.82.86.180 (talk) 20:18, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
As was previously discussed here, could the introduction state the genre as extreme metal? This would make it more specific as opposed to simply "metal" (giving the reader a better idea of the type of band this is), while still accommodating all the genres the band is sometimes labelled (melodeath, death metal, deathcore, thrash metal and metalcore all fall under the term extreme metal). It seems like a good idea to me, but please outline why it isn't if you disagree.--MASHAUNIX 20:26, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
This band is far from melodic death, mainly death metal with a huge component of technical death. Then we can discuss how much metalcore component they have, which I think is none or at most maybe in some specific passages of some specific songs, but that would be as say that Avulsed is death and classic because of decrepit sigh. Summarizing, melodic death? not at all, listen to Dark Tranquillity and TBDM one after the other and you will regret of saying TBDM is melodic death. Now listen The Faceless and TBDM and you will find much more in common. Death/Tech Death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.31.65 (talk) 21:15, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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The Virginian death metal bands Arsis and Cannabis Corpse should be listed as associated acts as Brandon Ellis plays guitar in both. Not to mention, Ryan Knight is also a former guitarist of Arsis. http://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Brandon_Ellis/279346 http://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Ryan_Knight/7352#artist_tab_past — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:19A:8200:9244:A9BC:DDE7:78C:8E73 (talk) 13:50, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Do we really need to have death metal in the genre field? Melodic death metal is a subgenre of death metal. Also, melodic death metal has 4 sources while normal death metal has only 1 source. Statik N (talk) 01:02, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
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First introduction paragraph at the top says "Their ninth and latest album Verminous was released on October 6, 2017." on the very last line. That date is incorrect. The correct date should be April 17, 2020. There the change should be from:
"Their ninth and latest album Verminous was released on October 6, 2017."
to instead say
"Their ninth and latest album Verminous was released on April 17, 2020." Mathiashellquist (talk) 09:50, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
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I would like to: 1 include cassette as a format for unhallowed 2 include cassette for as a format for Nightbringers 3 change "tba" in Verminous formats to cassette, CD, digital, and vinyl Krooklyn (talk) 04:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
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Change "Links to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline hint that he committed suicide." to "Links to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline hint that he died by suicide." Cable ready (talk) 09:12, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
((edit semi-protected))
template. Either wording is acceptable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)A new interview with Strnad’s fiancee confirms that the cause of death was suicide and includes information about his final days: https://www.artsatl.org/moonlust-bassist-jenny-mac-mourns-death-of-black-dahlia-murders-trevor-strnad/ MaybeThisWillWork (talk) 08:00, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Ryan Knight should still be considered a lead guitarist, both him and Brandon played solos at the most recent show. 31.205.6.55 (talk) 12:42, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
For the music video section:
Statutory Ape - Robbie Tassaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIKuXnzuYGs
What A Horrible Night To Have a Curse - Robbie Tassaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEACzoMJuMA
Necropolis - Robbie Tassaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qPN8ZN7U8 BobWiley42069 (talk) 04:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
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Hey all, Ryan knight plays lead guitar as well he is not just rhythm guitar this is inaccurate, him and Brandon play all their own respective solos and split the John k solos from the older album 172.58.109.163 (talk) 04:53, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Ryan Knight – rhythm guitar, backing vocals (2022–present), lead guitar (2009–2016) should be changed to Ryan Knight – rhythm/lead guitar, backing vocals (2022–present), lead guitar (2009–2016)
Ryan Knight will be returning to the band as the rhythm guitarist.
Should be changed to
Ryan Knight will be returning to the band as the rhythm/lead guitarist. 172.58.109.163 (talk) 04:58, 12 September 2023 (UTC)