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The article describes zionism as a colonialist ideology only in the perspective of critics of zionism. But this is just not true, especially with regard to the early zionists who were obviously proud to be colonialists. See for example any writing from Benny Morris on the time. DMH43 (talk) 17:14, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As I said above, it's not my personal assessment, it's the assessment of well respected historians. DMH43 (talk) 06:18, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It’s a perspective, not the entirety of perspectives or historical analysis, so to characterize it as such would be complete POV. Longhornsg (talk) 14:01, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can you provide me some sources that argue this? There are many historians on this history whose writing has been shown to be false, so just because a perspective exists doesn't mean it is notable. For example, some traditionalist israeli historians write that the arab population left palestine because of announcements from invading arab armies. This has been demonstrated repeatedly to be false. DMH43 (talk) 16:34, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Synth in Historical and religious background section[edit]
There is a flag in the Historical and religious background which warns of synth. I see some. I'm suggesting:
delete the first 3 paragraphs in this section
improve sourcing for the last 2 paragraphs. I think these can be properly sourced, but I don't know for sure. In the process I think they need to be rewritten to, in a way that relates it to zionism.
Outline specifically please what you are saying is synth (especially proposed deletions). Mistamystery (talk) 05:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
From the first paragraph, only the reference Garaudy is related to zionism (i dont mean its not relevant, but neither the writing or the sources relate the content to zionism) and it is only cited for one statement. From the second paragraph none of it is related to zionism. From the third, the only related statement is "These actions are seen by many scholars as an attempt to disconnect the Jewish people from their homeland".
In any case, it just seems like way too much background which is disconnected from the specific topic of the article. DMH43 (talk) 06:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Too much background is different from synth, and I would disagree squarely on the point that Zionism is essentially connected to (the concept at least) of Jews attempting to restore themselves to their ancestral homeland. I don’t see how anything connected to Jewish history in the region is not relevant to the overall topic. Mistamystery (talk) 06:25, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The sources don't connect this background to zionism, so it's synth.
"Zionism is essentially connected to (the concept at least) of Jews attempting to restore themselves to their ancestral homeland" did you mean to say: "Zionism is essentially disconnected to (the concept at least) of Jews attempting to restore themselves to their ancestral homeland"? DMH43 (talk) 06:42, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This does not require a tendentious and literal parsing of sources to back up what is blatant and undisputed in the basic concept. It is not synth to insist a movement around restoration of Jewish people to the land in which Jews originated is somehow connected to the history of Jews in said homeland.
Or are you insisting that Zionism is merely a modern concept disconnected from anything to do with history? What is the definition of the topic you are operating from? Mistamystery (talk) 07:01, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What I'm saying is that these paragraphs dont relate to Zionist ideology at all. There should be at least some discussion relating this background to the article, but there isnt. DMH43 (talk) 16:31, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This article has too many issues to be considered a B-class article IMO. It's messily organized in places, has too many [citation needed] tags, and could do with some major copyediting. Cessaune[talk] 07:16, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This recent edit [1] should be discussed. @Zanahary
The source added [2] doesn't seem to support the change, in fact it seems to contradict it, as it begins with the text: "The Jewish tradition of peoplehood, in combination with the age-old yearning to return to Zion (the ancient Hebrew name for the holy mountaintop in Jerusalem), have produced the modern ideological movement of Jewish nationalism: Zionism."
You’re right about the source—I added it expecting a discussion to be initiated, but actually I regret not just adding a high-quality source for it. Pardon, and maybe it should be reverted pending discussion. I just think there’s something contradictory in defining it in relation to the present-day region of Israel when the article details a whole slew of proposed Jewish lands, and “Zionist” as an adjective has been applied to lots of Jewish migration movements that sought statehood or population security around the world, including in Madagascar. Zanahary (talk) 03:11, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 February 2024[edit]
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The paragraphs in the Arab Conflict section have been delete and reposted multiple times. The material is disputed and should not be included. The distract from the main purpose of the article. 12.74.53.144 (talk) 20:13, 22 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the ((Edit extended-protected)) template. Feel free to discuss that text here on the talk page but as there is clearly dispute over that text, out of scope for an edit request Cannolis (talk) 23:05, 22 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the