Category:Pages to import images to Wikidata has been nominated for discussion[edit]

Category:Pages to import images to Wikidata, which is populated by this template, has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you.

Proposal to deprecate "country" in favor of "location"[edit]

I would like to propose a change here to change the |country= parameter to |location= or |pub_location= to clear up confusion and match the usage in ((Cite book)). In my wide experience of observing and editing book articles, there is a constant confusion and misuse of this parameter. Using |country= to mean country of original publication is confusing as books, nearly without exception, are published in specific locations. Usually a city, the city where the publisher is based. The standalone city name, not country, is THE standard in publishing. But |country= is endlessly used for the writer's nationality. Typically, the author's country of origin is indeed the country where their given book was published. However, that is not always the case. ((Infobox book)) favors the 1st edition publication of a book. First editions are periodically published first in countries that differ from the author's nationality or citizenships. Especially in today's globalized world. A book by an Indian-born writer first published in New York by Simon & Schuster should not have India in the country parameter. And yet, I cannot count how many these instances I have come across. This trend only seems to be getting worse. |location=, but especially |pub_location=, removes confusion here and more clearly states what that parameter is for. Οἶδα (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

|country= is indeed confusing, and for novels it often gets used for the country or countries in which the action takes place (should be |set_in=). I may have been guilty of that myself once or twice - oops. |pub_location= would be much clearer on all counts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelMaggs (talk • contribs) 19:52, 14 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I note that Template:Citation uses |publication-place= (and synonymously, |place= or |location=) and defines it as "The city of publication. If more than one town/city is listed on the title page, give the first one or the location of the publisher's head office." Do we still want to refer to the country (not the city) of publication, and if so, should we draw a distinction in naming the default parameter? (|publication-country=?) TheFeds 19:59, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe location takes precedence over country as the latter is not present on title pages and is merely a practical extension of a location. However, realistically the longstanding country parameter will likely remain. As such, a distinction must be made because the ambiguity of "country" was a problem in the first place. Confusion has persisted despite the template documentation clearly delineating it as the "Country of original publication". Also, I suppose 'country' is needed because some books were published in cities that–at the time of publication–were located in countries that no longer exist (i.e. East Germany, USSR, Yugoslavia etc.) |pub_place= or |pub_location=, and |pub_country= should suffice. We already make the distinction for Date (|pub_date=). These should follow. Οἶδα (talk) 20:55, 30 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I mentioned the citation template to provide an example of another thing the parameter could be called, and to point out the conventions that have arisen in that context, which may be instructive here.
An added wrinkle, I suppose is that it is theoretically possible for the publication to have been simultaneous in multiple places—e.g. coordinated releases of language versions on the same day by different publishers who specialize in their own markets and languages—so the parameter might more correctly allow for a list of places when required. (Infoboxes sometimes deal with this with a <br />-separated list.)
Given that the parameter contents might have to be a list, disambiguating with the form city, country doesn't seem unreasonable when necessary or desirable.
For cities that don't exist any longer, or whose name or country has changed, the name of the city should be linkable to the most correct placename at the time of publication. So if something was published in Danzig, Weimar Germany, which is modern Gdańsk, Poland (see Timeline of Gdańsk), we could link to Danzig and there would either be a redirect or a separate article there. (There are other considerations at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names).)
I guess as a bottom line, if there is a consensus to change something, but existing usage is messy and inconsistent, the consensus can drive efforts to improve in the long term. For example a simple one would be to add |country=<!--of original publication--> to the copyable template example on the documentation page. This would induce a particular usage in new instances. More complex ones could involve manual or automated review via the bot process. TheFeds 00:31, 3 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would support disambiguating with the form city, country. Any change that would accommodate this standard in publishing is preferable. And I agree with changing the documentation page, which I predict is a particularly non-controversial change. Οἶδα (talk) 21:28, 15 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree too. Bibliographically the publication place of (an edition of) a book is the city of its publisher and not the country. --Frognall (talk) 11:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Would be helpful to revive this discussion because it has not aged out of relevance. Οἶδα (talk) 12:17, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agreed. There seems to be general approval of the proposal, but not a lot of engagement so far. Sugegstions as to next steps? MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:40, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

preceded_by/followed_by for prequels?[edit]

Are these parameters based on publication order or internal series chronology? If the former, can someone update the descriptions to 'Title of [prior/subsequent] book in series, by order of publication', or similar, for clarity? I became confused after seeing a debut novel 'preceded by' a book (prequel) published years later. Thanks! Random fixer upper (talk) 19:04, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not sure there's a consensus on this (beyond the fact that it is only for books in the same series, not across an author's works) but probably a good idea to establish one. The example you give makes sense, but I'd also be confused if the infobox of a prequel said it was "preceded by" a book that follows it chronologically (it might also be fighting an uphill battle to try to force it to be publication order only). There's a good case for the wording of the infobox itself to be changed to make it clearer which one is meant, maybe along the lines of ((Infobox album)), which has a header over the preceded/followed by links, stating "(({chronology))} chronology" (or in our case, maybe something like "series name chronology" or "series name publication order"), in cases where the publication order differs from the series chronology (when they're the same, I don't think there's any need for a header). --YodinT 11:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
((Infobox television episode)) also has "Episode chronology" above the previous and next links. --YodinT 12:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks Yodin. Yes, having something visible in the infobox to clarify would be better than changing only the documentation. Though perhaps the parameter should just be used when a publisher or reliable source clearly specifies that the book is part of a particular series and it's order within it...
For a specific example, see The Hate U Give -- Random fixer upper (talk) 21:35, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Full name?[edit]

Should the |name= parameter be the book's common name or full name? Usually the book's subtitle isn't included in the article title so I've always removed it from the infobox title as well. If it's too much for the article title, I don't see why it would be needed atop the infobox. Looking to update the documentation after consensus. czar 17:36, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree that the infobox title doesn't seem the right place for the full title/subtitle, etc. --YodinT 11:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Adding anchor tags to parameters in documentation[edit]

Template:Cite news#Parameters implements this nicely! I'd be happy to make the change, but don't want to proceed without checking whether this might be a disservice. – spida-tarbell ❀ (talk) (contribs) 22:27, 3 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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