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Hello, Andrew Lancaster, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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You said that I was trying to dismiss r1a in Southcentral Asia by calling it a pocket. If you look at the map that is clearly what it is. There is a corridor from Russia to Southcentral Asia that ends in a "pocket" or "bubble" or round shaped geographical area, of which the center, where r1a actually reaches more than 50% is an extremely small area compared to the European R1a.

R1a is not a Dominant Haplogroup in Southcentral Asia. There are Tribal groups that have high percentages of R1a because they do not mix with other groups in the area. There are no countries in Southcentral Asia in which R1a reaches a much higher level than 20% except Kyrgyzstan. This article is written in such a way that would imply that R1a is a dominant Haplogroup in Southcentral Asia, when in reality, R1a only accounts for a small fraction of Southcentral Asian men.Jamesdean3295

This may be of some value in these articles....Genetic Discontinuity Between Local Hunter-Gatherers and Central Europe’s First Farmers (Found in Science Express)

Nonetheless, it is intriguing to note that 82% of our 22 hunter-gatherer individuals carried clade U [U5-14/22, U4-2/22 and U?-2/22]. ...... Europeans today have moderate frequencies of U5 types, ranging from about 1-5% along the Mediterranean coastline to 5-7% in most core European areas, and rising to 10-20% in northeastern European Uralic-speakers. . .

Hi Andrew, I'm not a Kant expert, in spite of my limited knowledge of his thoughts on reason. And I don't really have time to get into an in-depth discussion of intellect vs. mind vs. nous vs. reason. However, as I understand it, for the Greeks, nous was the highest possible metaphysical ideal or form, because it was pure form, and true knowledge for the Greeks was the knowledge that revealed the form that was represented in things. John Dewey wrote a great dictionary entry about nous in 1901:

Nous [Gr. νοῦς, reason, thought]: Ger. Nus (K.G.); Fr. intelligence; Ital. nous. Reason, thought, considered not as subjective, nor as a mere psychic entity, but as having an objective, especially a teleological, significance.

We owe the term, as a technical one, to Anaxagoras. He felt the need of a special principle to account for the order of the universe and so, besides the infinity of simple qualities, assumed a distinct principle, which, however, was still regarded as material, being only lighter and finer than the others. To it, however, greater activity was ascribed, and it acted according to ends, not merely according to mechanical impact, thus giving movement, unity, and system to what had previously been a disordered jumble of inert elements. […] Plato generalized the nous of Anaxagoras, proclaiming the necessity of a rational (teleological) explanation of all natural processes, and making nous also a thoroughly immaterial principle. As the principle which lays down ends, nous is also the Supreme Good, the source of all other ends and aims; as such it is the supreme principle of all the ideas. It thus gets an ethical and logical connotation as well as a cosmological.

On the other hand, nous gets a psychological significance as the highest form of mental insight, the immediate and absolutely assured knowledge of rational things. (Knowledge and the object of knowledge are thus essentially one.) … In man, however, the νοῦς assumes a dual form: the active (νοῦς ποιητικός), which is free and the source of all man's insight and virtue that links him to the divine (θεωρειν), and the passive (νοῦς παθητικός), which includes thoughts that are dependent upon perception, memory -- experience as mediated through any bodily organ. […] The distinction (of Kant, but particularly as used by Coleridge) of REASON from UNDERSTANDING (q.v.) may, however, be compared with it, but the modern distinction of the subjective from the objective inevitably gives reason a much more psychological sense than nous possessed with the ancients.[1]

The distinction between knowledge, or understanding, and reason in Kant therefore mirrors the distinctions between is and ought, or nature and freedom. Nikolas Kompridis similarly connects the knowledge/reason distinction to the discovery in Kant of practical reason's connection to possibility vs. experience:

The great innovation of Kant’s critical philosophy was to reconceive reason as spontaneously self-determining, or self-legislating, such that reason

frames for itself with perfect spontaneity an order of its own according to ideas to which it adapts the empirical conditions and according to which it declares actions to be necessary even though they have not taken place and, maybe, never will take place.^[1]

[…]

As distinct from the rule-governed activity of the understanding (whose rule-governed spontaneity is internally consistent with its concept), reason is a possibility-disclosing activity, proposing ends (‘‘ideas’’) that go beyond what is already given empirically or normatively. This much Kant already understood, if not fully appreciated, which is why he distinguished the possibility- disclosing activity of reason from the rule-governed acquisition and exercise of knowledge: ‘‘as pure self-activity [Selbsttätigkeit]’’ reason ‘‘is elevated even above the understanding . . . with respect to ideas, reason shows itself to be such a pure spontaneity and that it far transcends anything which sensibility can provide it.’

(Nikolas Kompridis, "The Idea of a New Beginning: A romantic source of normativity and freedom" in Philosophical Romanticism, p.34, 47)

Wikipedia:NOENG#Non-English_sources "Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations by Wikipedians".Tstrobaugh (talk)

The map you deleted wasn't necessarily a real one, only a representation of the Getae people as depicted by Strabo, not by anyone else. I only say this for you to know so there won't be any misunderstanding. Portasa Cristian (talk) 09:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

((re|Portasa Cristian)) I don't think Strabo is clearly describing the situation shown in the map. He admits himself to ignorance of the details. On the Getae article I have added more of what he said in order to show that he did not seem to imagine them stretching west of the Iron Gates. His point about the Suebi and Getae bordering each other is apparently only based on the fact that their territories both adjoin the same complex of forest and mountains. (For example, the Carpathian mountains.) We need to be careful of anything which requires interpretation like this. These are cases where it best to bring in modern secondary sources to help understand how the old texts should be interpreted.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:02, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your point about Strabo's description of the Getae and their territory is valid. While he provides some insights, he also acknowledges his own ignorance of certain details. It's crucial to recognize the limitations of ancient texts and exercise caution when interpreting them, especially regarding geographical boundaries and interactions between ancient peoples. Incorporating modern secondary sources can indeed help provide a more nuanced understanding of how to interpret these old texts effectively. Portasa Cristian (talk) 10:40, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And also, as an extra info, the map showed the lands inhabited by Getae families, not their territory. The Getae, like many other tribes, were living in an expanded land among other cultures. I think the map was essential to the page, but that's only my opinion. Portasa Cristian (talk) 11:38, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see what sources or reasoning you can use to justify the maps. Andrew Lancaster (talk) 16:37, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strabo. Strabo is the source of the map. "Strabo one of the first ancient sources to mention Getae and Dacians, stated in his Geographica (c. 7 BC – 20 AD) that the Dacians lived in the western parts of Dacia, "towards Germania and the sources of the Danube", while the Getae lived in the eastern parts, towards the Black Sea, both south and north of the Danube. The ancient geographer also wrote that the Dacians and Getae spoke the same language, after stating the same about Getae and Thracians."

Strabo's account of the lands inhabited by the Getae:

"As for the southern part of Germany beyond the Albis, the portion which is just contiguous to that river is occupied by the Suevi; then immediately adjoining this is the land of the Getae, which, though narrow at first, stretching as it does along the Ister Danube on its southern side and on the opposite side along the mountain-side of the Hercynian Black Forest (for the land of the Getae also embraces a part of the mountains), afterwards broadens out towards the north as far as the Tyragetae; but I cannot tell the precise boundaries" Portasa Cristian (talk) 17:02, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

don't forget that the map was made after Strabo sources, not other sources, only Strabo, so obviously the map is an approximate one, not an accurate one Portasa Cristian (talk) 17:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So to clarify further, this map is solely based on the geographical information provided by Strabo regarding the inhabited lands of the Getae, without incorporating any additional sources, thus reflecting only Strabo's perspective. Portasa Cristian (talk) 18:32, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But where does Strabo describe anything like the map you've been posting, stretching almost to France? And where does Strabo say that "the Getae, like many other tribes, were living in an expanded land among other cultures" He describes them, as do other classical authors, living on the lower Danube east of the Iron gates. I think the map is your own creation and not based on Strabo? Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:48, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The map doesn't stretch to France or even to the Alps; it expands towards Germany, as described by Strabo. I created the map myself, but I didn't upload it to the page. Additionally, I'm not a 'Dacian propagandist' because I've created maps about other empires such as Armenia, Carthage, Akkadian, and Goguryeo. As for the quote regarding the Getae living in an expanded land among other cultures, that's attributed to scholars, not myself. However, it's a valid point as the Getae did live alongside other tribes, even if not precisely in the same lands but in close proximity, such as the Dacians and Bastarnae. This is why the map is titled 'Getae Tribal Lands'. Portasa Cristian (talk) 19:15, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both of the maps I deleted from articles today show the Getae stretching into the Austrian alps at the very least, in an area due north of Italy. You also incorrectly show the Weser-Rhine region as being in the alps. I don't think the maps are carefully made. You mention "scholars". Which scholars? Your remarks about Getae "tribal lands", and about "other cultures", don't add anything because it is not clear what this means or what the source would be. Strabo is not the source for this. Andrew Lancaster (talk) 19:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The inclusion of the Austrian Alps and the Weser-Rhine region may indeed not align with historical accounts. As for the mention of "scholars," I refer to academic researchers who have analyzed historical texts and archaeological evidence related to the Getae and other ancient cultures. Regarding the remarks about "tribal lands" and interactions with "other cultures," these are interpretations based on scholarly research, although I acknowledge the need for clearer sourcing in the context of the article. despite all of these, what should i do to the map to satisfy you? Portasa Cristian (talk) 19:54, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

by the way I still want to make the map after Strabo, just tell me what to fix. Portasa Cristian (talk) 20:58, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i made a new map, i hope it will satisfy you, if you want i can add more. This map contains all the Dacian tribes, including the Daco-Celts and Daco-Thracians lands as some tribes lived in a tribal Confederation and some in a tribal Federation (tribal union like Bastarnae, Daci, Getae, Costobocii) of course according to Strabo

here is the link: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tribal_Federations_and_Confederationd_of_Dacians_and_Getae.png Portasa Cristian (talk) 22:19, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of saying "scholars" and "scholarly research" you should name the scholars and their publications. That is a basic point about how we work on Wikipedia. The map still shows the same enormous area being ruled by a "confederation". I don't see anything in Strabo to justify any of this. He does not mention most of these tribes. He also does not mention any of them being in a big confederation. The tribes are not even in their normal places, and some are a mystery to me such as the Daco-Celts in Austria. Where does Strabo mention these? Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In that era, Strabo's knowledge of the Dacian tribes was limited, often referring to them broadly as the Getae or Dacians. Indeed, various tribes like the Daco-Celts in modern-day Hungary and Austria, such as the Teurisci, Anarti, and Eravisci, as well as the Daco-Thracians like the Tribalii, Moesi, Corbizi, and Trizi existed. While Strabo didn't explicitly mention these tribes, he encompassed them under the broader terms of Getae and Dacians, which is why he described their territory as extending into the western parts of Dacia, towards Germania and the sources of the Danube. And also, most of them are in their normal places, what tribes aren't in their initial lands? Some tribes, like the Teurisci, Anarti, Eravisci, Tribalii, Moesi, Corbizi, and Trizi, probably may have migrated or expanded beyond their initial territories over time. So, they might not have remained exclusively in their original lands as described in historical records. Dont think i'm a Romanian or Dacian "propagandist" as i'm not even fully romanian and I'll tell you again that I made lots of maps about other entities. So I will ask you again, what should the map have to satisfy you? Portasa Cristian (talk) 12:03, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your point about naming specific scholars, but it's challenging for me to provide exact references as there are numerous scholars who have contributed to our understanding of ancient history and tribal dynamics. Scholars from various fields of study have researched and written about historical entities, including the Dacian tribes. As a mapper, I rely on a variety of sources to create maps, and while I strive to ensure accuracy, I am not a historian or a scholar myself. My goal is to present information based on available sources and contribute to the discussion within the limitations of my expertise. Portasa Cristian (talk) 12:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for admitting that Strabo is not your source. I have never described you as a propagandist. I do not claim to know what you are thinking. However, this is clearly original research, and not suitable for Wikipedia. You seem like someone genuinely interested to learn more, but you clearly don't have good sources ready to explain these maps. You should FIRST collect good sources, get things clear in your own mind. Wikipedia is not the place to post new ideas or interesting guesses. By the way, you put a lot of weight on Strabo's comment about the sources of the Danube, but he makes confused remarks about where the source was, and he only says the Daci lived along part of that stretch between Bohemia and Romania, and he seems to mean in southern Hungary. there is also another division of the country which has endured from early times, for some of the people are called Daci, whereas others are called Getae — Getae, those who incline towards the Pontus and the east, and Daci, those who incline in the opposite direction towards Germany and the sources of the Ister. and then The Marisus River flows through their country into the Danuvius,​ on which the Romans used to convey their equipment for war; the "Danuvius" I say, for so they used to call the upper part of the river from near its sources on to the cataracts, I mean the part which in the main flows through the country, of the Daci, although they give the name "Ister" to the lower part, from the cataracts on to the Pontus, the part which flows past the country of the Getae. Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also understand your perspective on my map, but it's important to note that many other users have seen and considered it before you. While I respect your opinion, I want to emphasize that despite not being a historical scholar or historian, I've invested significant time and effort into studying Dacian history. It's a topic that fascinates me, and I've extensively documented my research. While the map may contain some errors, they are not major, and I always take care to thoroughly research any map I create before dedicating my time to it. Portasa Cristian (talk) 13:55, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No you have not taken such care, because you can't name your sources. It is original research. See WP:OR. It is not only the map which is original but also the whole concept of their being an enormous "confederation". This is a very big claim. The geographical errors are also honestly not small. You should look up the location of the Weser river for example. Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for any confusion regarding the term 'confederation.' It was not intended to refer to anything depicted on the map itself. Regarding the geographical errors, I will carefully review the map to identify and correct any inaccuracies, including the location of the Weser river. Thank you for bringing these issues to my attention, and I will make the necessary revisions to ensure the map meets Wikipedia's standards for accuracy and sourcing. Portasa Cristian (talk) 14:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The information for the map was primarily sourced from the Wikipedia page on Dacia, as well as various maps depicting Dacian territories. These sources provided valuable insights into the distribution and boundaries of Dacian tribes, which were used to inform the creation of the map. Portasa Cristian (talk) 14:48, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for that honest explanation. As a next step you could look at the sources for some of the other tribes in the regions your maps cover. For example look at the Osii. Map making which summarizes what the articles are saying and adds no original claims is generally accepted on WP of course. My concern is that your maps sometimes go beyond that, and make very specific new claims. Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:58, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is the new map, I hope you like it. On the map, the darker the green color, the closer it is to the Dacian tribes, while the lighter green color indicates a greater distance from the Dacian tribes. Not all tribes are Dacian; for example, the tribes marked with blue color are Daco-Thracian tribes, here is the link: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dacian_tribes.png

You have to know that not all the green space is Dacian, only the dark green. Portasa Cristian (talk) 16:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It still stretches way beyond areas normally considered Dacian. It still mentions tribes that are not normally considered Dacian. By removing the explanatory text which called it a confederation it now implies that all this area, and all these tribes were simply Dacian. So in a sense this is worse. Why are the Buri and Osii in these strange positions? Why are the Eravisci not near Budapest? But then again these groups are never normally considered to be Dacian or Getea. Nor are the Roxolani. Please take more time on this. Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dacians_tribes.png Portasa Cristian (talk) 20:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, it just dawned on me that when I was crafting the other maps featuring the tribes, I inadvertently used a reference map depicting Dacia under Burebista and its campaign against the Boii and Taurici in Pannonia. Consequently, the tribes appeared to extend too far, mirroring the geographical context of that historical period. Portasa Cristian (talk) 20:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the page i am talking about is the this page. why did you remove my definiton of common sense? Adityaverma8998 (talk) 05:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]