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Marek.69 ^talk 23:39, 15 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Greenbush

((Copy of comments on discussion page of upstateNYer)) Dear NYer,

I just happen to pass by and would like to comment the following - if i may. Groenen bosch is a case (genitive, dative of accusative) of Groen bos(ch), like in German. In older Dutch gender and case were used routinely, like in modern German. So Groenen bosch is possibly an abbreviation for In/of the green bush without the preposition, so let's say it means (....) Of the green bush. There might exist an even older complete name, given by Dutch colonists like 's Groenen Bosch (= Des Groenen Bosch, meaning Of/At the green bush, this seems the most probable to me). If you try google "groenen bosch" and "groenenbosch" you find some examples of use and modern placenames in The Netherlands. A modern placename in The Netherlands uses nearly the same construction: 's Hertogenbosch. Another possbile translation of Des Groenen Bosch is: The bush of Mister Groen (=Green).

Summarizing:

1. GroeneNbosch = Groenebosch (Greenbush, N added in pronounciation, green is colour)
2. Groenenbosch = 's Groenenbosch = Des Groenen Bosch, (Of/At the green bush, or: The bush of Green, Green being a person's name) JMMuller (talk) 12:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC))))Reply[reply]

Poestenkil

Thank you very much for that thorough and thoughtful answer on greenbush (just so you know, this is relevant to today: see East Greenbush, New York and North Greenbush, New York). That was the kind of answer I was crossing my fingers hoping to get. In addition, I have one other quick old-Dutch vocab question. We have a creek around these parts called the Poesten Kill. A recent book claims that Poest was a nickname of an early settler, and this name was attached to the creek. However, my town historian seems convinced that poest means "frothy" or "bubbly" in old Dutch (meaning the creek is pretty rough, which is true). I have yet to get someone to confirm the latter. So my question would be,

1. If it's named after a person (Poest), does adding -en (Poesten) imply ownership (i.e. Poest's Creek)?
2. Or, does poest (or poesten) actually mean frothy/bubbly, and if so, what does the -en added to the word signify (the locals seem to think poest itself is the word for frothy, but have no explanation for the suffix).

Thanks very much again. This is a very big help. upstateNYer 14:53, 21 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In modern Dutch the word "poesten" would be viewed as a misspelling for "poetsen" = to polish, so Google tries to correct us if we do a search. Obviously, this meaning is not relevant for your Poesten Kill. The Dutch spelling would be "Poestenkil" (with only 1 l, pronounciation "Poostenkil"). The obsolete Dutch word "poest" is retained in at least the dialect of Drenthe and can mean there (see dialect dictionary of Drents (Dutch province language))

1. pimple (modern Dutch: de puist)
2. breath
3. illness: breathlessness (it this the correct word?)
4. small bridge of which the middle part can be taken out (perhaps there is a special English word for this type of bridge?)
5. wooden board that can be placed over a stream
6. blowpipe (1m long) for the fireplace.

If we may extrapolate these dialect meanings to seventeenth century NY Dutch language, then common sense would suggest meaning 4: Poestenkil = Creek with the little bridge with the movable middle, or 5 Creek with the board. Perhaps there are old pictures of a bridge over the Poestenkil ? We cannot rule out that there was a Dutch settler by the name of Poest (perhaps with a pimple?), so that the name would mean say "Mr. Pimple's Creek". Are there records of a settler called Poest to support this reading?

To be honest, i'm not a Dutch language specialist, just a fan. I worked for two years as an archivist in the Netherlands, before getting a PhD in physics. Looking at pictures of the beautiful Poesten Kill on the internet, i get the feeling that with hindsight the Dutch made a big mistake swapping New York and Upstate for Surinam with the British in the seventeen century ;-) If you need more help, you're welcome. Cheers, JMMuller (talk) 23:35, 5 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PS. Yes, the -en suffix could mean a genitive: Kil of the poest = poestenkil.

Hey, I appreciate the help once again. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist, sometimes they know best. This helps out a lot, actually, in that it proves a negative. The definition they've been using here (without looking for any sourcing) was that it explicitly meant "frothy" or "bubbly", so it obviously doesn't. There aren't any special bridges that I'm aware of and have yet to read anything about one. If there was one, it has either been forgotten or the documents that mention it have been lost or destroyed because many books have been published about the area that discuss the history of the kill.

And since you offered :) I have one more question. We have another creek around here called the Quacken Kill. The historians say it is a misrepresentation of the term "quacking", as in the creek was populated with many ducks. I find this hard to believe, especially since the Quackenbush family had a large population in the area in early times. However, I wonder if old Dutch has a word similar to quacken? And if so, what does it mean? Thanks once again. upstateNYer 03:44, 6 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Quackenbush

Dear Upstate languagebuff,

Neither does the extensive multivolume Woordenboek der Nederlandse Taal WNL give the meaning "froth" or "bubbly" for poest, but is in line with the meanings given above (offers also: cowshed, piece of wood and the verb poesten (blow, brag, kiss, fight, what not! .... online results in Dutch to add to the confusion..). On the other hand, Quackenbos seems to be an old Dutch family name, see e.g. (thx to Google),

• http://www.nethop.net/~sandness/quackenbosch.htm
• http://members.chello.nl/e.verhagen14/3.%20Arent%20Jacobsz.%20Verhagen%20%28FP%29.htm
• http://home.versatel.nl/Shields/Bestand/fam00802.html

It would be nice to find present-day Dutchies with this familyname (not in the phone directory of Amsterdam in the same spelling, but Kwakkenbos yes!). It appears that the US/New Amsterdam immigrants kept the old spelling, whereas the Dutch familymembers modernized their name to Kwakkenbos (try Google Kwakkenbos). (In general immigrants tend to stick to old ways concerning religion etc. (e.g. the Dutchies in Michigan) longer than less adventurous stay-at-home people, so this is not so strange.) Meaning = bush of the Kwak(or Kwakken, plural?).

WNL offers voor kwak:

• various types of birds
• various sounds of birds and frogs
• throw (verb 'kwakken)
• quack (bad doctor)
• a trifle, stupid fellow etc.

Nowadays, kwak in Dutch means Black-crowned Night Heron, a throw or a thrown quantity ( kwak mayonaise)

Cheers, JMMuller (talk) 15:20, 3 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Reading Mark 16, the appearance to Mary Magdalene looks not as sure as your change makes believe. Be so kind as to link Bible quotations to their source (examples in Ein deutsches Requiem#Table of movements), in this case Mark 16:9, then the reader can see that there is a "leap" in the narration. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

translation of science and art
Thank you for quality articles such as Christiaan Huygens, for translating articles to Dutch and connect articles of the two languages, for adding poetry and a 9/11 image, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A year ago, you were the 603rd recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 04:54, 13 September 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Six years ago, you were recipient no. 603 of Precious, a prize of QAI! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:12, 13 September 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gerda Arendt Thank you very much, it is very kind of you! I must perhaps note for clarity, that as a Wikipedian in Residence I have been paid for some of my WP activities. Hansmuller (talk) 09:13, 13 September 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Precious

Seven years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]