Please delete this page! Please also delete the user account Startcom. Thanks a lot!
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Thank you for your article, but wikipedia is not a web directory--Anthony.bradbury 01:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I think you wanted a Redirect. That's easy. You just put #REDIRECT (all caps) in front of the target page link. One note: Do not use underscores in the linked page name. Use the title exactly as it appears on that page, with spaces. So:
Cool! will be done!
Afterwards i clean up the mess...I didn't created the original stub for StartCom Enterprise Linux, therefor it started all wrong....—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Startcom (talk • contribs) 01:49, 23 December 2006.
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Hi. A discussion of Startcom-related edits has been started at WT:WPSPAM#Startcom because of conflict of interest concerns. You are encouraged to share your thoughts there. JonHarder talk 21:35, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
If you can, please send an email to us (linux [at] startcom [dot] org) ,since discussion would be easier. I have a hard time "talking" via wikipedia.
Concerning your concerns:
It is correct, that we created the pages, after some stubs existed already (not created by us) about StartCom Linux. However the information which existed was partly wrong and incomplete (well, it was a stub). So we decided to invest time and effort to provide the best and fair information we could and make the pages informative as possible (and obviously different from our own web sites - hence this is not advertisement or spam, even if the pages created quite some interest in this short time).
I took care, to mention relevant organization, products and services of other parties including our direct competitors. If there is some information missing or different views (which are valid) I invite others to contribute to the StartCom entries, which with the time most likely might happen anyway. Also the main page about StartCom might be not complete and time allowing I'll improve that somewhat.
Also I visited numerous other entries of similar companies, products in the wikipedia and created the pages about StartCom similar. If you feel that there is a conflict somewhere please explain it to me. Thanks a lot for your time!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Startcom (talk • contribs) 20:15, 30 December 2006.
May I ask, why did you (or somebody else) removed the page about StartCom Enterprise Linux? This was the original stub to start with. How can this happen without notifying the user about such things? Look, this is the third time I invested time in this - I'm not going to recreate this pages over and over again. If you don't like it, than correct it. Else lets remove all entries about any of the Linux Vendors on Wikipedia. Well, lets remove all free and/or commercial products as well! I clearly suspect, that you yourself are perhaps affiliated with some other Linux product or vendor! Except that, we don't need the 200 hits we get from wikipedia, we are getting enough without it...
And more important now: How can we get the content back?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Startcom (talk • contribs) 20:36, 30 December 2006.
I wonder, about which product and services shall we talk at the StartCom pages? About flying to space? Or dishwashers? Of course it's about our products the very same most other Linux vendors, certification authorities etc are presented, including their shiny products!
Concerning the StartCom Logo. This is the same case as with Red Hat's! You can't use the logo and name for other usage except as outlined in "fair use".
Links: I added links of StartCom to pages which already had links about other similar products. Why should this be of concern? Because it's StartCom?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Startcom (talk • contribs) 20:56, 30 December 2006.
Please do not remove maintenance notices from pages unless the required changes have been made. If you are uncertain whether the page requires further work, or if you disagree with the notice, please discuss these issues on the page's talk page before removing the notice from the page. These notices and comments are needed to establish community consensus about the status of a page. Thank you. ✤ JonHarder talk 01:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you!--Hu12 01:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
... such as myself have collectively spent as much or more time than you have on these articles. We've been trying to help you while still staying within the bounds of Wikipedia's standards. I know I spent over an hour writing up my advice to you above. Unlike yourself, none of us are getting paid by Wikipedia or Startcom.
So snapping at us and getting sarcastic -- well -- it's just not very nice.
It's also very counterproductive, since grounds exist to delete all of the other articles based on unproven notability and conflict of interest. Any of the volunteers that have been trying to help you could start this process anytime.
As for the material that was deleted: anything that smacks of copyright violation usually gets deleted in a heartbeat. Several good copyright lawsuits could wipe out Wikipedia financially and we don't take any chances. As it says below the edit window every time you edit an article:
and, in bold:
I encourage you to consider adapting your edits to Wikipedia's requirements rather than expecting us all to adapt to Startcom's. --A. B. (talk) 04:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
The page of StartCom Enterprise Linux didn't have anything related to copyright violation to start with. Second, nevertheless one should contact the author(s), specially in this case, where the main contribution was made us. I have email sending on in my profile, and I'm outraged by the way this was handled! And as a side note, I didn't got paid by wikipedia to write this article, so what is your point?!
We were invited to, guided and also corrected on writing this articles and if the page of StartCom Enterprise Linux wouldn't have been deleted, than one could read the discussion which happened there previously. I don't care about how much time you or anybody else invests in wikipedia, this is your own business. I just know, that we invested time and effort, dug up material and actually thought up, to provide useful and interesting information. We volunteered to work on this and now it's gone! What did we do? Sell Viagra? Infringed which copy right exactly? Can anybody please point me to my mistake please?
OK, now what? If there is a specific problem with one of the StartCom pages, please point them out. It's absolutely not helpful posting links about some general discussions and guidelines about how to write an article. Please tell us specifically, where a problem is, since every point mentioned was corrected or adjusted by now. But just telling me, that an article might infringe copyright or just has a problem without pointing out what, doesn't make me correct it, since I don't know what to correct - if at all!
Additionally, I thought that wikipedia is about open contributions and anybody is free to add, edit and/or modify the content we put up! Therefore you and anybody else has the option to correct things and make it better....isn't this all about wikipedia? So, now I request to put back that article about StartCom Enterprise Linux in some form and please point out the copyright violation. Otherwise I suspect, that this article was removed by our competition! One should be carefully too when deleting stuff of others, which isn't obviously spam!!!!
Startcom 08:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you John for your comment! I asked Robth to restore the page and I'm not against marking it as suggested. Like this we all have the option to actually see it and change, review the diffs and improve it. I think, this is how it should have been done in first place.
Logo: If there is a problem with the StartCom Logo, than you have to delete the logo of Red Hat as well. Of course I think you should restore the logo, since a logo should not be used by anybody, except for direct reference to the organization (i.e. to StartCom, resp. Red Hat). I think, this is what Wikipedia refers to "fair" use...
History of the StartCom Enterprise Linux entry:
1.) Somebody created a stub for it. There were links to it previously and obviously somebody thought it important enough to create the stub and add initial information about StartCom (Enterprise) Linux.
2.) We added some additional information and it was marked as copyright violation. Somebody made additional suggestions how to write the article.
3.) Afterwards we decided to clean up all pages relevant to StartCom and created a page about the organization and StartCom Linux. Both Linux distributions of StartCom can stand in its own rights are completely different, therefore we created two different pages for it. If it is preferred to merge this two, than we could do that (or anybody else).
4.) The next things was (after we CHANGED and created the page about for the third time), that it was deleted. I left a note for the editors, plus there was a discussion at that page. It seemed to have no effect on Robth, or he didn't realized, that the content was actually edited and changed...
And at last: What is "associated talk pages"? The discussions at each page? Anyway, I'd be glad to find a resolution to your concerns and propose changes (if needed) to the relevant pages. Thanks for your time so far...
Startcom 01:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, in the meantime I merged the StartCom Linux versions into the StartCom Linux page and updated the redirects. I think this makes sense!?
Two StartCom articles were nominated for speedy deletion because there is no assertion of notability. References to the corporate web site, or to press releases (even if reprinted elsewhere), do not satisfy the requirements that Wikipedia articles reference independent, reliable sources. If you wish to dispute deletion, please tag the pages with hangon as indicated in the box at the top of the page. Jehochman (Talk/Contrib) 18:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
As advised I'm removing the notice:
"You may remove this message if you improve the article, or if you otherwise object to deletion of the article for any reason. To avoid confusion, it helps to explain why you object to the deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page."
Explanation see above.
The StartCom articles exist now already for a few months and where made in collaboration with others. Perhaps name your exact reasons for your suggestion for deletion, because your allegations are unsound. Check out the notability section of each article. Additionally the information provided is in informative format and not "advertisement". So I suspect you from having relations and/or interest in rival organizations and products, which would be happy to see us gone from Wikipedia. Or maybe something against an Israeli organization?
I just found this discussion, and what strikes me as odd is that CAcert hasn't been deleted, and StartCom is doing more and the CA portion is in more browsers.
It concerns me that the article was removed without notice, even if it didn't site references, shouldn't it be taken offline and the author asked to fix it, rather than simply deleting it?
I see articles all over wikipedia that state the author didn't site sources. From my standpoint, StartCom was adding the information for themselves, as no one else had done so for them. With the author being the company themselves, the work may seem like an advertisement, but that is only reason to have it corrected, not removed.
Hello Startcom. If you add four tildes ~~~~ at the end of your message, before pressing 'Save page', your message will be signed and dated automatically. This will make it more likely that other editors will understand your comments. EdJohnston 01:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm currently ignoring the Startcom owned domians in the pages that are up for AfD. The external linkage in those articles is excessive and needs to be cleaned up, maybe at a future date. These two spam warnings are being awarded because of the following two diffs: [2] [3]
Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam policy for further explanations. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. See the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you.
Please stop adding inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. It is considered spamming and Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, additions of links to Wikipedia will not alter search engine rankings. If you continue spamming, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. [4] [5] [6] [7] (Requestion 01:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC))
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