Women in Red August 2023, Vol 9, Iss 8, Nos 251, 252, 277, 278, 279, 280 Online events: New: Alphabet run C & D | Indigenous women | Film and stage | Geofocus: Arab League Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also: Wikimania 2023 will be held in Singapore, 16–19 August, and will be facilitated by the affiliates in the ESEAP (East/South East/Asia/Pacific) region. Tip of the month: Read the essay Determining Native American and Indigenous Canadian identities to understand the criteria for status as Native American or Indigenous Canadian. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 19:26, 28 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]

Why do I have to cite someone's ethnicity when it's inherently blatant in their name? She was born in Canada to Greek parents, so she can't be Greek-born?

It's pretty racist not to acknowledge her Greek heritage by stipulating she's a Greek-born Canadian, don't you think?

Anyway, this is the last time I make an edit on the site. 174.91.42.146 (talk) 23:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Greek-born means born in Greece and she was born in Canada. Her Greek heritage is already mentioned in the main text and isn't necessary for the lead section. Suonii180 (talk) 12:05, 19 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Greek-born doesn't mean born in Greece. It means born to Greek parents. Her Greek heritage should be mentioned in addition to her nationality.

  You can't just call her Canadian. She's Greek Canadian. 174.91.42.146 (talk) 16:31, 19 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• • Grammatically it means born in Greece and she doesn't have dual Greek-Canadian nationality. If you think the wording should be changed then it would be best to discuss it on the talk page to get consensus. Suonii180 (talk) 17:43, 19 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Women in Red September 2023, Vol 9, Iss 9, Nos 251, 252, 281, 282, 283 Online events: New: Alphabet run E & F | Women writers & their works | Geofocus: Celtic nations Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman Tip of the month: The books she wrote might be notable, too; learn 5 quick tips about about book articles. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Victuallers (talk) 16:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]

New Page Patrol | October 2023 Backlog Drive
On 1 October, a one-month backlog drive for New Page Patrol will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled. Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive. Articles will earn 3x as many points compared to redirects. Interested in taking part? Sign up here.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, Suonii180! I wanted to check back with you about the AfDs that you'd requested protection for. I declined the requests because it looked like the offending IPs and new users have been pretty systematically blocked as they've popped up. I really think that if we protect those discussions, they'll just move on to some of the other 400 or so open ones: it looks like the targets are chosen at random. (At least, *I* can't see anything they all have in common.) If new disruption pops up, don't hesitate to notify WP:AIV, WP:ANI, or if I'm around, you can ping me directly. Joyous! Noise! 01:57, 22 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• @Joyous!:, that's a good point about them moving to other AfDs, thanks for letting me know! Suonii180 (talk) 15:21, 23 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello Suonii180,

Backlog update: At the time of this message, there are 11,300 articles and 15,600 redirects awaiting review. This is the highest backlog in a long time. Please help out by doing additional reviews!

October backlog elimination drive: A one-month backlog drive for October will start in one week! Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled. Articles will earn 4x as many points compared to redirects. You can sign up here.

PageTriage code upgrades: Upgrades to the PageTriage code, initiated by the NPP open letter in 2022 and actioned by the WMF Moderator Tools Team in 2023, are ongoing. More information can be found here. As part of this work, the Special:NewPagesFeed now has a new version in beta! The update leaves the NewPagesFeed appearance and function mostly identical to the old one, but updates the underlying code, making it easier to maintain and helping make sure the extension is not decommissioned due to maintenance issues in the future. You can try out the new Special:NewPagesFeed here - it will replace the current version soon.

Notability tip: Professors can meet WP:PROF #1 by having their academic papers be widely cited by their peers. When reviewing professor articles, it is a good idea to find their Google Scholar or Scopus profile and take a look at their h-index and number of citations. As a very rough rule of thumb, for most fields, articles on people with a h-index of twenty or more, a first-authored paper with more than a thousand citations, or multiple papers each with more than a hundred citations are likely to be kept at AfD.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello, I made a change to Sandra Bowmans personal life section, stating that she had 2 children. It was removed due to me not linking a creditable source. I am actually her biological child, Isobel, which is creditable. If you need further proof, I can email you mine or my mams facebook page. This will show you that she has listed both me and my brother, Matthew, as her children. Thank you x 82.25.240.116 (talk) 21:58, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, if you have a close connection with the subject of an article then you have a conflict of interest and should avoid editing the page directly and should instead discuss changes you wish to be made on the article's talk page, please see WP:COI for more information. As for providing a reference for personal information, facebook is not considered to be a reliable source as it's user-generated, please see WP:RELIABLE for what can be used as a reference. Wikipedia has stricter rules on what can be included in biographies of living people and unless the information has been published in secondary sources then it probably shouldn't be added to the article. Suonii180 (talk) 22:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Women in Red October 2023, Vol 9, Iss 10, Nos 251, 252, 284, 285, 286 Online events: New: Alphabet run G & H | Women in STEM | Geofocus: Sub-Saharan Africa Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also Women in Green's "Around the World in 31 Days" Good Article editathon Tip of the month: When creating an article, check to see if there is an entry in the sister project Wikidata. If your subject is listed, the Wikidata information can be useful Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 10:54, 29 September 2023 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]

Women in Red November 2023, Vol 9, Iss 11, Nos 251, 252, 287, 288, 289 Online events: New: Alphabet run I & J | Geofocus: Indian subcontinent | Women in Politics Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also Wikipedia Asian Month November Contest Tip of the month: When translating articles from another language Wikipedia, don't forget to include attribution in your first edit summary. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 08:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]

Hello Suonii180:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.

You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over 1300 pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:25, 31 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Most of that content was from the "History of Belfast" page and, therefore, belong on the History Timeline of Belfast. As someone who lives in Belfast, I deserve a bit of a grace period to enter my sources without a busy body coming along and undoing all my work (especially when it's already been accept on a Wikipedia main page). Next time, ask before you undo in seconds what took a couple of hours to create. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.220.8 (talk) 23:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's the responsibility of the editor adding new information to include references at the same time they add that information. Please see WP:BURDEN. If you need any help with referencing then please see HELP:REFB. If you have questions feel free to ask myself or alternatively you can ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE. Suonii180 (talk) 23:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do not remove my content without giving me time to find all the proper citations, especially when it is being transposed from a pre-existing Wikipedia page (History of Belfast). Also, there are some you removed that have proper citations based on BBC News articles. I live in Belfast and I know more about this topic than you. I do legitimate research and I don't appreciate my work being casually removed. If it happens again without messaging me first, then I'm going to report it. Kylecholmes (talk) 23:24, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kylecholmes:. As per WP:BURDEN, if you add information then you should add the reference alongside it as you shouldn't add information without checking a source. If the information is in another article and you can check the reference then use it. If it's unsourced then it would be better that you found a source before moving it. It's not the responsibility of other editor's to assume that you're going to come back later to fix your edits. If you're doing a large edit then it would be useful to use your WP:SANDBOX to ensure everything that needs to be sourced is before you add it. Living in Belfast doesn't mean you can add unsourced information, see WP:IKNOW. Suonii180 (talk) 23:38, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nor does it mean that you have the right to police other people's additions by hanging over them like a hawk. Every edit done on here has a grace period and often a message is sent to the editor before content is removed. My living in the city does not act as substitute for citations, however, my work on the actual History of Belfast page (with citations) and my being in Belfast should make you think twice before cavalry deleting content on a whim. You did not even do me the courtesy that I have done for other editors and they have done for me which is to contact first BEFORE removal. You just took it upon yourself to remove my content without any warning and that is poor form. You are also the only editor I've encountered on Wikipedia who has done this backwards. Message first, give time for edit THEN and only then remove content. Do not go off half-cocked again and do not remove any of my content, especially when I have provided a credible source. Learn to communicate or else don't be an editor. Kylecholmes (talk) 23:47, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kylecholmes: Everyone has edits that get reverted at one stage or another and it's not a given that you're going to get a discussion about it before hand. If you want to encourage more communciation it may be better to avoid editing while you're logged out and then switching to being logged in. Also, don't tell editors to stop editing because they disagree with you, it's impossible to agree with every other editor on Wikipedia and isn't a constructive way to discuss issues. Suonii180 (talk) 22:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

i have no issue with editors editing. You removing content lightning quick while do very little to communicate first is your mistake. No one else has done this in my years of adding content, just you. You gave it hours then deleted content while others have given days or even weeks to make corrections without removing anything first. Some even offer advice. My advice to you is, communicate and only delete as a last resort and loads of time. People do not volunteer their time and intellect to have some busy body come along and undo all their hard work because they are on a power trip. Be professional and help improve, dont destroy. Kylecholmes (talk) 00:08, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kylecholmes: Wikipedia cannot be used as a source as per WP:CIRCULAR, I've removed them from the article and added citation needed tags. I'll give you time to add citations but if you don't go back and add them then I'll remove any unsourced content. If I have time myself to find them then I will but again as per WP:BURDEN it should be you that finds sources. Please see WP:RELIABLE for what sources are acceptable. If you need help with sourcing then feel free to ask me or at the WP:TEAHOUSE. If the information wasn't sourced in the article that you moved it from then you shouldn't have moved it without first finding sources. Suonii180 (talk) 00:36, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's fair. As per our previous dialog, give time for sources to be found as this is being done on my free time. I did wonder about using Wikipedia as a source and will avoid in the future. If I use an outside, credible source that is also found on the History of Belfast main page I expect it to be accepted. Kylecholmes (talk) 14:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kylecholmes: Only if you can personally check the source. You can't be sure that it definitely covers the information as a past edit may have changed or removed content without updating the reference. This happens too frequently for other editors to always be able to catch or fix and is why unsourced information is often reverted. Wikipedia is a WP:USERGENERATED site which means that you can't assume that it's reliable or correct. Suonii180 (talk) 16:59, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I feel we are on the same page now. I appreciate you adding the "citation needed" markers as they help the process. I have added citations to every reference point and even tried to double up when I can making sure all sources are credible. Kylecholmes (talk) 23:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kylecholmes: The article looks great, thank you for adding the sources. Suonii180 (talk) 01:04, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, lists aren't exempt from needing sources as per WP:SOURCELIST and Wikipedia can't be used as a source as per WP:CIRCULAR. If you need help with referencing please see HELP:REFB. Suonii180 (talk) 16:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello. Well, two things: firstly, whoever made that rule probably isn't aware of how strong their sense of irony is. Of course, I do see that merely by writing something doesn't mean it's true. And by quoting itself, the site could be repeating its own mistakes. But then the question must be, if it can't quote itself, (even when it has already allowed the unreferenced information to stand unchallenged, as it is currently doing, on Russell Waters' profile, i.e., ' Place of Birth: Glasgow '); how is it the uncorroborated information there is allowed to be true, but not elsewhere, when transposed ? Should I, you, anyone, now go to that actor's page and delete it ? If that's so, then all of us shall be doing little else, as there must be many, many thousands of such instances.

I'll let it go, then But I think we know that we'd both choose choose to say ' Glasgow ' as the answer, both for him and for Olaf in a millionaire quiz show. If it's true on one page, uncorroborated, then it's true if repeated on another, and vice versa. A great shame, but where there are two wills, there's not always a way. I'm content to let our contrasting philosophies lie on these pages. I think consistency shall have to wait patiently for his claim to be recognized by future judges.

Regards to you. Heath St John (talk) 17:48, 14 November 2023

@Heath St John: It's the responsibility of the editor to add sources as per WP:BURDEN and if you find unsourced information that you think may be untrue or that you can't find a reference for then you should remove it. You should not move unsourced information to a another article and if it is sourced then you should check the source before using it as per WP:SAYWHERE. There are countless of instances of unsourced material and adding more unsourced content is not going to help fix the problem. I've already directed you to HELP:REFB but if you have any questions about referencing then feel free to ask me or you can ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE. You can also have a look at WP:RELIABLE to see what kinds of sources you should use. Suonii180 (talk) 12:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Afternoon. I'll conclude by saying this, then. You say, ' There are countless instances of unsourced material... ' :- yes, adding more isn't going, as you say, to help; yet:- if so, how does leaving those that remain help ? Leaving any which are found, (and you rightly say yourself there are ' Countless ' examples), is to condone it. If it's condoned in one place, it can't justifably be objected to in another.

By arbitrarily removing some, such as the two in question, and leaving others, that's arbitrarily selectivising the truth for everyone else. It's establishing oneself as supreme judge. When that's practised, it nullifys the truth, which references' existence claim to establish. Selectively removing some, and leaving others, is a God-head rôle.

Whilst I admire your and others' dedication, I ask you to submit the reasonableness of these truths to the greatly-practised judgement of your own mind, and try to visualise yourself as a third-party, reading this, to see if your mental position still holds.

It's not the expression of wounded pride, but as the instinctive defender of the principle that judgements should be applied consistently that encourages me now to say to you, (I think a badge-holdindg Editoress), that that is just the type of whimsical editorial dictatorialness suggestive of dismissive impunity that greatly discourages volunteers from carrying on; making Wikipaedia, eventually, an impossibility.

I have not meant to wound, just to speak frankly, as I genuinely do admire dedication. Heath St John (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello to whoever posted this.

The' Cancelling Disputes ' section applies here, I think: as I do ! know what a ' Cabal ' is.

Thanks very much. Heath St John (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Women in Red December 2023, Vol 9, Iss 12, Nos 251, 252, 290, 291, 292 Online events: New: Alphabet run K & L | Women who died in 2023 | Honoured Women Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman Tip of the month: Avoid copyright problems by rewriting in your own words. You can check any article or draft with Earwig's copyvio detector. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add ((NoACEMM)) to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi there. You put |class=list on the banner shell (great!) but then you added |class=start to the project banners - why? If you have the rating in the shell, then it is not necessary to rate the separare banners. Thanks — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@MSGJ: Apologies! Thanks for bringing it to my attention and for making the fixes on this talk page and and the other rowing ones. Definite WP:TROUT moment on my part! Suonii180 (talk) 23:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Page Patrol | January 2024 Articles Backlog Drive
On 1 January 2024, a one-month backlog drive for New Page Patrol will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles patrolled. Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive. Each review will earn 1 point. Interested in taking part? Sign up here.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Women in Red | January 2024, Volume 10, Issue 1, Numbers 291, 293, 294, 295, 296 Online events: New: Education (year-long initiative) | Alphabet run M & N | Temperance women Continuing: #1day1woman | Women who died in 2023 Announcement In 2024 Women in Red also has a one biography a week challenge as part of the #1day1woman initiative! Tip of the month: Check out the new navigation on our Women in Red Project home page. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events and add any general ideas on developing the project. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]

Women in Red | February 2024, Volume 10, Issue 2, Numbers 293, 294, 297, 298 Online events: New: Alphabet run O & P | Black women Continuing: #1day1woman | Education (year-long initiative) Announcement Please let other wikiprojects know about our February Black women event. Tip of the month: AllAfrica can now be searched on the ProQuest tab at the WP Library. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events and add any general ideas on developing the project. Follow us on social media: Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk 20:11, 28 January 2024 (UTC) via MassMessagingReply[reply]