| Blocks all around. T. Canens (talk) 07:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Luciano di Martino[edit]
The history of this problem is elaborated at Talk:Giorgio da Sebenico#References and onwards. There is a problem at the article Giorgio da Sebenico regarding the artist's nationally-related designations between how they're referred to in Italy and in Croatia, which is an area covered specifically by the area of conflict in the Dalmatia case (medieval Zara) and also the WP:ARBMAC#Area of conflict. The general consensus about that article name has been established using all the proper procedures, by English-speaking editors and using English-language sources, back in 2007, which is well documented in the talk page archives in a detailed requested move. Regardless of this, this user has pushed their POV and consistently engaged in a seemingly endless series of reverts, typically removing or even explicitly denigrating references that don't fit their POV. They don't often revert completely so the edit war is less obvious, but anyone who even looks at the history of the article and the talk page can see a pattern - it's the same person and it's the same POV. This has gone on since May last year, and the user has since supposedly stopped using the named username, but merely in favor of anonymous accounts, which I believe to be abusive behavior, as I've explained and enumerated at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Luciano di Martino. The SPI includes the list of IPs used by the user. Yesterday, things took another turn for the worse, when User:Eleven Nine, which I believe to be yet another sockpuppet of the same person, added their POV back into the article claiming they were just copying it from the Simple Wikipedia - as if that is somehow a legitimate rationale for abuse. Yet, this is simply transparent - http://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Giorgio_Orsini&action=history clearly lists all the same IPs used for the same abuse on the English Wikipedia. All this amounts to an amount of disruptive behavior that is well beyond the threshold of abuse defined by the aforementioned arbitration decisions. I am requesting we block this user and any of their sockpuppets for a longer period of time in an effort to curb further abuse.
I have tried to engage this user in discussion regarding the matter, and also reverted many of their abusive edits myself, so I can't enforce such an arbitration decision myself because of WP:INVOLVED.
I've placed the notification at their latest two sockpuppet talk pages: BTW looking at the edit history pattern, I also suspect User:Davide41 may be an earlier sockpuppet. This might have been going on for quite a while now. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The comment below demonstrates the problem we're dealing with - a clear refusal to comprehend even the most basic verifiability, neutrality and article title policies, let alone the provisions of the aforementioned arbitration(s). Apparently we're all an evil cabal that's out to get them. This would be funny if it wasn't so sad given the amount of effort that's been expended on trying to assume good faith from them. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:41, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Luciano di Martino[edit]Statement by Luciano di Martino[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Luciano di Martino[edit]This "enforcement" is a tip of series of incivilties and personal attacks on a number of people who exposed forgeries used to "prove" that the famous Italian medieval sculptor and architect Giorgio Orsini is not descendant of the noble House of Orsini and, therefore, not an Italian. The proofs of his family identity are given by famous British architect Sir Thomas Graham Jackson (end of 19 and beginning of 20eth century) based on works and documents discovered by Italian professor Dr. Galvani (Annuario Dalmatico, 1884 and in another of his works dated 1887). Sir Jackson is explicit: "The architect to whom it was entrusted has long met with unmerited oblivion and Dr. Galvani is entitled to the credit of having discovered his name and restored it to fame." Elaborated and full refutal of "Juraj Dalmatinac" name was given in the Ancora su Giorgio Orsini article in Atti e memorie della Società dalmata di storia patria, Volume 6; Società dalmata di storia patria, La Società, 1969, page 151. The most recent assessment of the Griorgio Orsini's family origins and identity are coming from Giuseppe Maria Pilo, Per trecentosettantasette anni. La gloria di Venezia nelle testimonianze artistiche della Dalmazia, Edizioni della Laguna, Venezia 2000, p. 37; 109 This Joy [shallot] attacker offered only forgeries written by Croatian scribe Fiskovic claiming that Orsini never used his family name contrary to the documents discovered by Dr. Galvani and asserted fully by Italian professor Giuseppe Maria Pilo. Two other professors Davide and di Martino tried to clarify Orsini's origins were mercilessly attacked, mocked and ridiculed by Joy [shallot]'s friends and forced in retirement and inactivity. The Joy [shallot] attacker tried to disqualify di Martino claiming that a number of anonymous contributors are again di Martino himself, which was rejected by Wikipedia administration. As to the WGFinley adiministrator, based on the 'warning' posted on my user talk page, it's obvious that he tried to blindly support the attacker meritslessly. --71.178.106.120 (talk) 17:54, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Luciano di Martino[edit]
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| No longer an AE matter, being dealt with by ArbCom directly. T. Canens (talk) 13:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Racepacket[edit]
Racepacket made personal statements about LauraHale and Hawkeye7 that are grossly offensive, which are not included here because their privacy should be preserved. In the same edit, Racepacket made allegation about a Simple Wikipedia editor also of a sexual nature in the edit summary (which was so offensive it has since been revdel by an Simple Wikipedia Sysop). Bidgee (talk) 11:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
11:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC) at User talk:Racepacket
Discussion concerning Racepacket[edit]Please note: ArbCom was independently notified of this a few hours ago. We are currently considering taking it over to deal with ourselves. I'll post an update as soon as this is clearer. Thank you for your forbearance in the meantime, Roger Davies talk 15:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Racepacket[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Racepacket[edit]Looking only at the linked item, and only with respect to the linked item, looks to me like Racepacket was trying to only address/dispute the incorrect accusation (that the Arbcom decision was for disruptive editing) while trying to talk as little as possible (in that situation) about the individual in question. Not commenting on the individual, not using their name, and only repeating what the individual alleged. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 03:41, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
If what is said is true, and I have no reason to doubt Bidgee, than perhaps a global meta ban is in order, for we can do without such editors anywhere on any project. If it is decided this is the way to go, it should be started str8 away. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 12:39, 7 February 2012 (UTC) If an Arb wants to see the edit summary it can be provided. -DJSasso (talk) 12:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Racepacket[edit]
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| No action taken. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Mooretwin[edit]
Discussion concerning Mooretwin[edit]Statement by Mooretwin[edit]This is clearly another vindictive attempt by Domer48 to have banned an editor whom he doesn't like. Domer48 has a long record of reporting editors, including me, for technical violations such as this, despite being guilty of many such violations himself. Indeed, given the previous occasions, this could be an example of harassment and bullying. The edits are clearly done on different days. To run and report someone merely 1 hour and 4 minutes short of a 24-hour interval indicates that an editor is deliberately looking for things to report. Domer48's strategy is to have editors whom he doesn't like banned from articles so that he can have free reign to impose his POV into the article. (In this particular case, he wishes to retain and insert text that seeks to use [[WP:SYNTHESIS|synthesis] to associate the Orange Order with the Ku Klux Klan and Nazism.) If moderators want to encourage and support this kind of behaviour on Wikipedia, then proceed to ban me.
Edit 1 wasn't despite a talk-page discussion, it was because of the discussion, and no spurious "rational" was offered. Edit 2 didn't ignore discussion - again it resulted from the discussion, during which the serious flaws in the section had been highlighted by others - and no spurious "rational" was given. In any case, under WP:BRD it is perfectly acceptable to be bold and remove text. Comments by others about the request concerning Mooretwin[edit]Result concerning Mooretwin[edit]
In my view, this is a very minor and marginal contravention of 1RR. As the editor concerned seems to have had a clean record for about 2 years now, I am not inclined to impose any administrative sanctions. I think the respondent can take the fact of this AE case itself as an unofficial caution to take a bit more care with 1RR in the future, for his/her own sake. Subject to any contrary views from other uninvolved administrators, I propose to close this as "no action" within 12 hours.--Mkativerata (talk) 21:50, 8 February 2012 (UTC) |
| Tom harrison (talk · contribs) topic-banned indefinitely. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:12, 9 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Tom harrison[edit]
This situation arose because of a discussion over the category for Conspiracy theories involving Jews where several editors insisted that it be kept because they felt antisemitism was a "major component" of the conspiracy theories. I noted in the discussion, along with another editor, that pretty much every conspiracy theory has some variant claiming Jews were involved and that this did not justify putting the article on 9/11 conspiracy theories in general alongside the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the Zionist Occupied Government, claims widely associated with vile antisemitism and neo-nazis in particular. Responding to that discussion one of the users for keeping the category created a subsection suggesting that the category further be renamed to "Antisemitic conspiracy theories" and it was in that discussion when Tom first makes his position clear stating his belief that Israel is just mentioned in conspiracy theories as a placeholder for Jews. There are other blatantly inappropriate actions and comments going on in that discussion from people suggesting that category be kept, but Tom's behavior in editing the article has been most egregious, with even some of the editors for keeping the category thinking his actions are going too far. @Tom I was not the only one to revert your edits as I note above. My arguments in every last discussion on the talk page have been about what is said by independent and reliable sources as well as how a change comports with policy, and anyone is free to look over the article talk page to check that. I did not file this report with any ill intentions towards you or the article. Your insistence on pushing this antisemitic association into prominent parts of the article without regard to what the vast majority of sources say or, more importantly, do not say even after I asked you to stop is what prompted this.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 05:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC) @Netzer The first and last diffs are definitely not reverts. With the first it was a routine rewording to avoid some confusion created by an edit and the last was an attempt to find a strong word that might be more accepted than "generally" as editors did not like that term. As to the three in between I admit I was losing track of things. I probably should not have performed the second revert of the removal of "U.S. government agencies" and "mainstream" but I did go to the talk page as soon as I performed the second revert. When it comes to the removal of the Princess Di mention, it is not something I consider a revert because nothing of significance was removed. Should an editor put overly-long material into the lede, for instance, shortening it will likely involve removing quite a bit of material. What matters, in my opinion, is whether the meaning of the original edit has been altered in some way by the change. I can reasonably say that another editor would have removed the mention of Princess Di, if not reverted the entire edit, for being completely unnecessary in the lede and a potential Pandora's Box. My intention was to try and preserve the meaning and intent of Tom's edit while avoiding the undoing of Tom's contribution altogether. After AQFK expressed that he believed this was a revert I did say I would be happy to be reinsert the material if a proper place could be found for it and have left a proposal on the talk page to suggest a way that could be done.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 06:06, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Tom Harrison[edit]Statement by Tom harrison[edit]You left out the part where I posted an extended quote on the talk page, and provided reliable sources with each edit, showing that antisemitism is a defining characteristic of 9/11 conspiracy theories. Even when they aren't overtly Jew-baiting, they repeat the classic anti-Jewish stereotypes from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, writing "neocons" or "Zionists" or "globalists" for "Jews" - not merely my own opinion, but those of the reliable sources I included with each edit. You've dismissed Kay's book Among the Truthers as a hit piece, and suggested Jewish news sources can't be reliable on the question. Against the sources I provide, you place your own original research - you're familiar with the theories, and they aren't antisemitic. Sorry, but antisemitism is a defining characteristic of 9/11 conspiracy theories in general, and that's supported by reliable sources. For some time the article has relied heavily on primary sources, down-playing the more embarrassing parts of the theories. The consensus developing on the talk page favors correcting that, using the best secondary sources, and giving our readers an accurate description of the theories in context. Of course all this about sources and what they say belongs on the talk page, but so far your replies there have been variations on "Nuh uh!" and "Is not!" Now you're reverting the sourced edits, simply because you don't like what the sources day, and your argument having failed on its merits, you've filled the talk page with specious objections, and now filed this complaint, hoping I guess to make it too costly and time consuming for people to work on the article. At least for this evening, you've succeeded. Tom Harrison Talk 04:27, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Re Mkativerata's comment below, from Conspiracy theories and Secret Societies for Dummies, pg 95-96, here's the passage my edit summarizes:
The author goes on: "In the U.S., it isn't hard to sniff out the obsessive Jew baiting in many of the "alternative conspiracy theories" offered up the the "Truthers," for example, who believe that 9/11 was an atrocity commited by the government(see Chapter 8)." Substantially similar points are made in Jonathan Kay's Among the Truthers. The essential antisemitism of 9/11 conspiracy theories is well established. My edits, to the best of my ability, reflect the sources I cite. Tom Harrison Talk 20:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC) @Mkativerata, I'd draw your attention to the next paragraph as well, and the author's further development of the theme. Similar points made in other sources also support what I wrote. There's always room for improvement, but subject to the length my edit is an accurate summary of the reference cited, and of the general consensus of researchers. Tom Harrison Talk 20:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC) @Mkativerata, in the first edit I moved the section higher up, appropriately I think. TDA moved it somewhere else. In the second, I cited the ADL; TDA reverted. In the third, I cited publiceye.org, and Slate; TDA reverted that too. The fourth cites Conspiracy Theories for Dummies because it's accessable, and the material is backed up in the work of other academics and journalists, as is made clear on the talk page. But, a different editor reverted that. Each edit accurately summarizes the consensus of researchers, journalists, and academics, among whom this isn't contentious or controversial at all. NPOV isn't a compromise position midway between what two Wikipedia editors think, it's the neutral representation of what the reliable secondary sources say. In those sources, the antisemitism of 9/11 conspriacy theories is well established. Tom Harrison Talk 21:10, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Tom harrison[edit]Statement by A Quest for Knowledge[edit]There is no question that some 9/11 conspiracy theories (CT) are anti-Semitic. For example, one of these theories are that 4,000 Jews stayed home from work on 9/11. This theory is described as anti-Semitic by news organzations such as the JTA (10 years on, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about 9/11 persist) and the BBC (Were Jews forewarned about the attacks?). Honestly, the article suffers a bit of a Western bias. In the Middle East, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are very prevalent. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a well-known Holocaust denier[3] has frequently blamed Jews for 9/11, including in speeches at the UN[4] forcing Al Qaeda to issue statements refuting Ahmadinejad.[5] Yes, I think that Tom might have gone overboard in these diffs, but it should be noted Devil's Advocate has been doing plenty of advocacy and POV-pushing of his own. In fact, Devil's Advocate's conduct has been far worse as many editors of that article would tell you. I can provide evidence if you like. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Statement by MichaelNetzer[edit]It would seem the primary discrepancy with Tom Harrison's edit is the difference between or and and regarding the correlation between Freemasons and Jews. Based on the quoted text in the cited source, the difference seems negligible because both entities are interwoven into a common causual origin:
This suggests that Admin:Mkativerata's following statements...
...are unfounded and are unjustly damaging misrepresentations of Tom Harrison's edits. This is not to say anything about edit wars and POV pushing, but only to say that Harrison did not seem to misrepresent the source in the way he was admonished for doing, and should not be sanctioned based on this particular allegation. Tom Harrison appears to have the staunch support of at least 6 editors in the talk page discussions, while the TDA has the fleeting support of 3. Just the opposite, it seems, The Devil's Advocate, filer of this complaint, has engaged in a far more egregious edit war and removed well sourced material from the article, raising the ire of many editors there. Not only that but TDA goes on to file this complaint while disrupting the editing process for editors who are at a loss for how to deal with his tendentious behavior, on the one hand, but who also don't want to file an AE complaint against him themselves, on the other. TDA also most likely violated 3RR with these 5 edits/reverts of other editors within a 24 hour period:
Devil's Advocate's explanation for this run of edit-warring and likely 3RR violation was... *"I honestly do not consider it a revert to remove part of a change as part of a rewrite unless that change is somehow important or relevant to the material, which the mention of Princess Diana was not." ...which entirely dismisses the very definition of a revert. I wouldn't purport to suggest what remedy is needed for whom, but it seems the severity of Harrison's edits are being greatly exaggerated, while a highly-possible 3RR violation, edit-warring, and community-disruptive behavior by Devil's Advocate need to be addressed. It also seems TDA has had a similar fallout not long ago and understands the need for community agreement. TDA should at least be made to accept that it's best to step back for now, and stop reverting edits, at least until there's a little more community support for his/her position. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 05:12, 9 February 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Tom harrison[edit]
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th edits are completely unacceptable in what purports to be a neutral encyclopaedia. The unacceptability arises from the poor sourcing and the tone of non-neutral advocacy with which the content is written. Even when the sources might be neutral (the Dummies book; let's assume it's reliable) they are completely misrepresented. For example, this edit says:
The sentence is sourced to pages 96 and 97 of this book. The pages are fully viewable following the link. Nowhere in those pages is anything said that could, on any view, remotely support the claims made in the edit that (1) 9/11 conspiracy theories have their origins in the hatred and fear of Jews and (2) in that respect they are "like all conspiracy theories". Edit-warring and battleground behaviour is one thing. Advocacy, POV-pushing and source misrepresentation is another thing entirely. For that, I would impose an indefinite topic ban that would be lifted if Tom harrison can demonstrate the capacity for neutral editing, proper sourcing, and compliance with editorial standards, in other areas. I would appreciate comments from other uninvolved administrators. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Discretionary sanctions warning for Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and intelligence
Explanation: These edits demonstrate that Gwern is dubious of the fact that the topic of his edits are covered by WP:ARBR&I. This indicates that an authoritative notification should inform him of the scope of sanctions for the case.
Additional Context (2/11): To clarify the context here, the edits that Gwern made occurred during a talk page discussion with Miradre (talk · contribs) (editing as Acadēmica Orientālis (talk · contribs)). That discussion dealt precisely with how to handle the brain size content in question. After Gwern's change was reverted and he was pointed to the talk page discussion, he immediately reverted with the edit summary: "oh, so *you* are to blame for the section being so crappy? no, you reverting all my work is not how editing goes - they are well-cited RSs. talk before rv" demonstrating a battleground attitude toward the topic area.
Race/Intelligence (2/11): As noted by Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs) below, Pioneer Fund researchers like Rushton and Jensen are central in promoting the view that racial intelligence is significantly due to genetics. In WP:ARBR&I, one of the primary findings of fact was that the disruptive editing in the topic area included (iii) incessant over-emphasis on certain controversial sources like the Pioneer Fund. With respect to Race/Intelligence, misrepresenting scientific understanding brain size by parroting Rushton/Jensen's controversial conclusions is part and parcel with making the case that intelligence is a racial trait. This is precisely the case that the sources Gwern added ("Race and sex differences in head size and IQ" and "Whole Brain Size and General Mental Ability: A Review") make, and introducing those sources as representative of the scientific view brain size/intelligence promotes this controversial view.
After being advised that his edits to Neuroscience and intelligence fall under the rubric of WP:ARBR&I [6], Gwern repeatedly rejected the suggestion. Given this and the history of wikilawyering over warnings in this topic area, I think a direct warning from a clerk or admin would be appropriate. No action beyond an informational warning is warranted or requested.
User talk:Gwern#Arbitration enforcement
I stand by my edits. The area of brain size and correlation to IQ is unconnected to race unless aprock wants to make it connected; I have not tried in the least to connect them and pointed that out repeatedly.
If sanctions are warranted, I think they are warranted on aprock for mercilessly removing references he dislikes - even references with no connection to Jensen or Rushton, which were included in the edits in question - and threatening Arbcom enforcement, and immediately calling for said enforcement for edits I first made 4 or 5 hours ago! (And notice his second message, after being reverted, was digging for dirt on me. Good faith editing?)
He has made multiple arguments, all of which have failed, and this is apparently his last resort. I suggest the Clerk clarify the ruling: is the Arbcom case an unconditional ban on all use of Jensen and Rushton? I did not think it was, but if aprock's request is granted or even just rejected unclearly, you can be sure someone will interpret it as such.
Finally, I would note that I have little editing interest in the topic at hand (look through my very long edit history if you wish to check); as part of my job, I was collecting references on the topic, along with information on the brain volumes of humans, chimpanzees, rats, and investigations into whether rats have g, and I was shocked that the Wikipedia material was such an abysmal failure of coverage (like, one reference) despite the abundant reference materials online, and decided to in my personal time try to rectify the situation. Consider what message a block would send. --Gwern (contribs) 01:52, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Should be declined without further action since aprock has not explained what rule Gwen is supposed to have broken. Jensen is not disallowed as a source. Discussing a dispute on the talk page is not disallowed. Aprock is trying to "win" a content dispute using a request. If anything aprock should be warned: "editors who file clearly groundless, frivolous, vexatious, or bad-faith requests may be similarly sanctioned, even on a first offense." Acadēmica Orientālis (talk) 02:12, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Reply to Mathsci comments: Not sure what the point of Mathsci's comment is. Mathsci was topic banned from this area in the original ArbCom decision. Acadēmica Orientālis (talk) 05:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Reply to Volunteer Marek: Also here not clear what policy Gwen has supposedly broken. Jensen or Rushton have not been disallowed as sources by the ArbCom regarding race issues. Not that Gwen made any statement regarding race in his article edits.Acadēmica Orientālis (talk) 06:46, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
A safe rule of thumb is that pretty much anything to do with Jensen and especially J. Philippe Rushton, and the Pioneer Fund, no matter what the wikilawyering is, IS connected to R&I.
Additionally, statements like "He has made multiple arguments, all of which have failed" can be indicative of a battleground mentality and inability to engage in constructive discussion. I've seen much worse though, so I don't think that that by itself is sanction worthy.
A warning/notice is perfectly reasonable though.VolunteerMarek 06:22, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
BTW, Boothello's comments about Aprock below are a pretty straight forward violation of Boothello's topic ban (I'm assuming that's still in place - if not, disregard). His bringing these disputes here appears to be some kind of substitute for fighting the battles on articles and talk pages from which he is banned. That one, IS sanction/block worthy. If a separate AE request for Boothello needs to be filed, let me know.VolunteerMarek 06:24, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Re: Boothello. The link you provide was about people who are topic banned from R&I filing AE reports in pursuit of normal dispute resolution procedures. It was not about people who are topic banned from a topic area showing up on AE requests in which they had not even been mentioned to pursue the kind of behavior that got them topic banned in the first place. Your topic ban explicitly states: This is to inform you are banned from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Race and Intelligence topic area, broadly construed across all namespaces indefinitely per this AE report.
And there's no "unclean hands" on part of Aprock. You showed up here specifically to make that false allegation and are substituting your statement on this very report for the fact that you cannot make it on the talk page of the article because of your topic ban. Effectively, you're trying to game the topic ban.
I advise you and Mathsci to both remember that the only people who might be sanctioned - I have no idea where you get this notion. Your breach of the topic ban is certainly deserving of a block.VolunteerMarek 08:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Aprock was notified of the R&I discretionary sanctions here. However, after being notified, he's continued to remove large blocks of content from articles with dubious justifications for removal. Here is one other recent example:
In the past month, he has made five attempts to remove the table of IQ scores from the article IQ and the Wealth of Nations. [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] Since this is a book about international IQ comparisons, the IQ table was summarizing the central point of the book's argument and had been included in the article since 2004. [21]
Note that the explanations given in Aprock's edit summaries are "reverting per extensive discussion" and "reverting per consensus". Yet in the discussion about possibly removing the table, consensus clearly opposed removing it (five editors opposed to removing it and only three in favor). When Aprock was challenged about this by an uninvolved editor, his explanation (in the last edit summary) was pointing to this discussion as support for removing the table, but the only idea which gained support there was to move the table to a separate article. As Rangoon11 points out on the article talk page, Aprock's slow edit warring to remove the table from Wikipedia entirely (rather than to move it) has not at any point been supported by consensus. In this discussion, his use of R&I discretionary sanctions as a rhetorical hammer to try and get his way in a content dispute is also troubling.
In the original R&I case, a topic ban was administered for edit warring and false claims of consensus. [22] Per WP:BOOMERANG, the same should apply to Aprock here.Boothello (talk) 06:17, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I haven't looked into the specifics of this yet, but I will advise editors above to look at the thread regarding Shuki; continued barbs and potshots will result in sanctions coming your way. This is not a forum to rehash debates not directly pertinent to the matter at hand, which in this case is the dispute between Gwern and Aprock. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 08:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
| Mooretwin (talk · contribs) is banned indefinitely from all articles, discussions, and other content related to The Troubles, the Ulster banner and British baronets, broadly construed across all namespaces. T. Canens (talk) 13:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Domer48[edit]
It is claimed that reverts of IPs do not count under 1RR. However, it would seem that this exception applies only to the specific 1-revert-per-week terms of probation and not to 1RR. (In other words, more than one revert of an IP within a week would not be a breach of probation, but within a day it still falls foul of the more general Arbcom ruling.) This complaint relates to a violation of the general Arbcom ruling, i.e. 1RR. Mooretwin (talk) 14:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Domer48[edit]Statement by Domer48[edit]As the filing editor has already been informed that reverting the edits by IP's are not sanctionable I can only see this report for what it is, disruptive. Now it has been decided here that the editors edits were a violation of 1RR and decided no action was required I would sugget that it be reviewed in light of not only their tit for tat report which is clearly vindictive but their attempts at trying to blackmail me into overlooking their violation of 1RR. @Mabuska, since you were also placed on probation you would also be well aware of Terms of probation which state that Reversion of edits by anonymous IPs do not count as a revert. Likewise, this editor was also on probation and blocked for incivility but it did not seem to stop them for more personal attacks. @ Mooretwin: I also consider it frivolius to suggest ignorance of 1RR when it clearly states that: Clear vandalism, or edits by anonymous IP editors, may be reverted without penalty. It also states that If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. You may also wish to review the arbitration case page. When in doubt, don't revert!. I would also add that a quick review of your bad faith posts,[23][24][25][26] [27][28][29] lend nothing to the discussions and are themselves santionable. As you are the only editor who is using this battle ground approch I suggest you stop now. Comments by others about the request concerning Domer48[edit]Mooretwin attempted to blackmail Domer here into withdrawing his AE report by threatening this frivolius report if he didn't. Despite me telling him here that reverts of IP edits (and the IP's disruptive editing was dealt with at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive106#86.145.111.123) are exempt from 1RR, he's still made this report with diffs that date back almost a month. Classic case of WP:BOOMERANG in my opinion. Mo ainm~Talk 11:25, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Looking at the complaint above that Domer48 raised against Mooretwin, it looks to me that Domer48 is playing the system and has kicked off this 'tit for tat'. Blocking Mooretwin now will seem to reward such behaviour, and incentivise it. Wikipedia should encourage editors who are contributing useful content and improving articles, not editors who seek to play the AE system. If you really want to block Mooretwin then block Domer48 as well. --Flexdream (talk) 19:41, 9 February 2012 (UTC) Looking at the contribution Mooretwin makes to Wikipedia [30] I don't see blocking him as a good outcome for wikipedia. I'd rather see more contributions like that, and fewer AE complaints and judgements. --Flexdream (talk) 23:35, 9 February 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Domer48[edit]
Per the impressing unanimity of admins above, and under the authority of WP:TROUBLES#Standard discretionary sanctions, Mooretwin (talk · contribs) is banned indefinitely from all articles, discussions, and other content related to The Troubles, the Ulster banner and British baronets, broadly construed across all namespaces. This topic ban may be appealed at AE after six months, and every six months thereafter. Mooretwin may also make an appeal of this ban immediately after the imposition of the sanction, per WP:AC/DS#Appeal, and may appeal the ban to the Arbitration Committee at any time. T. Canens (talk) 13:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC) |
| Shuki (talk · contribs) banned from Golan Heights and Golan Heights indefinitely semi-protected. All editors reminded that AE is not a battleground, nor a venue through which to air interpersonal disputes. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:11, 12 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Shuki[edit]
WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary_sanctions, Violation of mandatory rule requiring editors to explain all reverts on the Golan Heights talk page
Shuki has continued a trend originally started by an IP, and followed up by Plot Spoiler, of misrepresenting the source attached to the population numbers on Golan Heights infobox. The BBC source clearly states, "Population estimate: 20,000 Israeli settlers, 20,000 Syrians" [31]. Shuki's misrepresentation of that fact is a clear attempt to push a certain Israeli POV that Israelis in the Israeli-occupied territories do not need to be referred to as "settlers". While that might be a fine topic to discuss and try to reach consensus with on a talk or collaboration page, blatantly ignoring the source with a trigger-happy revert approach is unacceptable. Furthermore, there is a requirement that all editors must discuss any revert performed on talkpage. Shuki (and Plot Spoiler for that matter) have failed to do that. I believe Shuki's history speaks for itself. Barely two months out of a topic-ban that was reset do to sockpuppetry, Shuki seemed all to eager to defend[32][33] a obvious, disruptive sockpuppet. I can't really see how to topic area has benefited from Shuki's presence.
Admins, I have shrunken the text of what I feel is the less matter of importance in my report, as it seems there is too much attention being paid to that. -asad (talk) 18:52, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
First off, please note that I am reserving my right not to have to respond to any sort of request against me until it is filed in the proper method and channel. But I would just like to say that perhaps I may have been more inclined to go to Shuki's talkpage to civilly inform him that he ignored a source in his revert, but one of the last times I civilly went to Shuki's talkpage with a matter, my edit was reverted as "vandalism". Thusly, I am not inclined anymore to bring requests to Shuki's talkpage, as he might report me for "vandalism". Secondly, I think Shuki's response below to the matter is tantamount to him saying that sources don't matter so long as he has determined that a phrase is inappropriate to describe "one people" (I.E. - calling Israeli settlers - settlers). I don't care if the argument is whether or not potatoes should be called "red potatoes" or simply "potatoes. If the high-quality source says "There are 20,000 red potatoes on Old MacDonald's farm" and an editor and removes the word "red" from the picture, that is blatant misrepresentation of the source and applying WP:VERIFY and WP:SYNTH. I don't really think I should explain how or why the term "settlers" is contentious, but the mere fact that Israel views the Golan Heights as its sovereign territory and the rest of the world doesn't would explain why high-quality, reliable sources, overwhelmingly describe the Israeli population in the Golan as "settlers". Shuki's inability to see this is proof enough as to why he shouldn't be editing in the topic area. Furthermore, we have to deal with things like retaliatory A/E filings and comments such as "Your combined desperation and perseverance to eliminate me", and "asad has demonstrated that he's taken on policeman and attack duty". This displays Shuki's WP:BATTLEFIELD mentality. -asad (talk) 17:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Shuki[edit]Statement by Shuki[edit]I'm wondering if I should open an AE against asad for not AGF and for turning into a serial attacker here on AE, curiously replacing a currently t-banned editor, instead of a collaborative editor that would normally have sent a cordial notification, or at least a threat warning instead. I have not edited the Golan article or talk page in over a year, or even two or more, if ever, from a look back at the last few hundred edits in history. I am aware of the 1RR on all Israel Arab articles or assume that it applies on the Golan articles as well. I did not check if my edit was a revert of a previous edit since I was not part of the edit war and had no intention of getting into it either by even bothering to 'risk' violating the personal 1RR, and from coming off a Tban as asad has kindly reminded all. I was not aware of the heated edit war on such a lame issue of removing labels, to which I thought was a simple case of making NPOV and I did mention this in the edit message. The page is on my watchlist since I had worked on several Golan Heights-related articles in the past, but I do not actively follow that area either. I have not been notified of this special restriction, and it was not been posted to the WP:ISRAEL page which would be a natural place for that. The Golan article merely appeared high on my watchlist of hundreds of articles and I made a quickie while not being active in the last few days. When I did make the edit, I had noticed a template, but when I saw the 1RR word did not bother to read the rest of the message, assuming it was the standard one. If you all want to not AGF and instead claim I'm playing dumb, then thank you all. Blade, I appreciate your comments. I would like to hear your thoughts and suggested sanctions about the profanity above and which the experienced editor has not bothered to remove after being pointed out. If you really did want to be a collaborative and objective uninvolved admin here on AE, you would have immediately reprimanded Sean, and blocked him for at least a half-day, for including battleground profanity and not bothering even to retract it, in the new 'no tolerance AE'. All editors coming to edit on AE is an automatic signal that they themselves are exposed to scrutiny, not only the subject. AE is not a chat forum. I also appreciate you adding the quickie and non-productive 'Shuki not looking good' instead of simply leaving it with a mention you had no time to come to a conclusion on what is a relatively short AE anyway. And mentioning Amira Hass shows your ignorance of the subject, not your awareness. Amira Hass does not write about the Golan Heights at all. AE is not an easy place to admin, but I expect NPOV from the admins here in order to be fair representatives of WP. Can you do that? --Shuki (talk) 07:01, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Shuki[edit]Statement By Shrike[edit]There are academic sources that use different terminology [35] so its are merely content dispute.--Shrike (talk) 16:57, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's Advocate[edit]Looks to me like there was an explanation for the revert. The explanation is that the infobox should either mention that the Syrians are Druze Arabs or avoid calling the Israelis settlers. Shuki should not be dictating the terms to be used in an article, but that is not enough of an issue.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:40, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
@RolandR This is a unique restriction on the article, not a general ARBPIA restriction from what I understand. Seems a bit much to say they would definitely be aware of some article-specific restriction in an article where only one of them has made any contributions before this and that nearly two years ago. Rather than assume that both of these editors looked over the talk page notices with a fine-tooth comb and decided to ignore the restriction, I think we should assume good faith of these editors and recognize that most people don't even think to check for a unique restriction on a specific article. Warning both editors of the unique restriction on Golan Heights in clear detail is the only action that any admin should take.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:28, 3 February 2012 (UTC) @T.Canens I hope you are not suggesting sanctions, because it seems reasonable to think that Shuki would simply not have been aware of the unique restriction on the article. Asad filed this report without so much as warning Shuki of the restriction. Seems to me like Asad is really just interested in getting sanctions imposed on Shuki.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC) I left a comment responding to HJ's suggestion at his talk page.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Might I suggest, if there is going to be action on Shuki, that it be of a more limited duration. Honestly, I think the editor probably did just miss the article-specific restriction in the notice and as no warning about that restriction was given by asad before he filed the AE request an indef ban from this article would just be excessive. Exactly how would Shuki even appeal that under the circumstances? Something between one and six months would at least drive the point home that such explanations are needed on the talk page of that article without denying Shuki the ability to ever contribute to it again. I mean, after just making one contribution to the article in nearly two years this unique restriction is being used to indef the editor from the article. Are you really going to apply that sort of draconian tactic against other ARBPIA editors who are new to editing that specific article?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 06:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC) Statement by RolandR[edit]It is irrelevant whether Shuki and Plot Spoiler have been individually informed of the restriction, since the article's edit page has a big header stating: "WARNING In accordance with Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Discretionary sanctions, editors of this article are restricted to 1 revert per 24 hours and MUST explain the revert on the talk page. Violations of this restriction will lead to blocks." When reverting, they must surely have seen this. RolandR (talk) 18:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland[edit]Shuki, the issue for me is that you ignored a clearly reliable source and changed article content to impose your view of what is neutral. Plot Spoiler did exactly the same thing of course (and again here, a bad habit that will certainly result in an AE report if it doesn't stop). You apparently genuinely believe that "Israelis" is more NPOV to describe Israeli settlers who live in Israeli settlements in areas that are outside of the green line and occupied by Israel such as the Golan Heights, despite the high quality source cited in this case using the standard terminology, terminology that is of course used by countless other sources, and so you feel justified in aligning Wikipedia content with your personal views. The problem is that your view of NPOV is inconsistent with Wikipedia's view of NPOV. If this were a one off, an exception, assuming good faith would make sense, but this is a feature of your editing in the topic area that has been going on for years across many articles. It's symptomatic of your inability or unwillingness to set aside your personal views and simply follow policy when it comes to Israeli settlers and the occupied territories in general. You may not like my personal views on what constitutes "profanity" but I don't impose those views on article content. You won't find me writing "bullshit" next to any of the many policy violating edits made by advocates in the topic area. I'm willing to believe that you didn't notice the article specific restrictions but I don't think it is reasonable to expect people to accept that after all these years you still believe that ignoring a source and erasing standard terminology is "a simple case of making NPOV". Can you stop doing things like this, yes or no ? Sean.hoyland - talk 09:25, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Shuki, I don't understand how you can see a "desperation and perseverance to eliminate me" in what I wrote. It isn't there. I just want you to agree to stop making edits like this. That's all. You can do that. If you do that there is no reason for you to sanctioned is there. You are free to throw any number of accusations against me, I don't mind, as long as you stop making these kind of edits. If the topic area was being monitored by an intelligent bot that checked edits for compliance with policy, article restrictions and the sanctions, it would have filed this AE report against you. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC) @Tim, I posted my response to HJ Mitchell's concerns yesterday on my talk page here. Regarding the proposed remedies, apart from #4, indefinitely semi-protecting the Golan Heights article, I think they're irrational or at least from my perspective the conclusions don't follow from the information present. There's no dependency between the merit of an AE report filed by an editor and the degree to which that editor is directly involved in the events that led to the AE report so I don't understand the rationale for restricting AE filing. Would it harm the topic area to ban me from filing or editing on WP:AE on any case not directly involving me for six months ? No, so it's not something I care about. If you see it as something that would benefit the topic area, go for it. If I see things happening in the topic area that merit an AE report, I will send the prepared AE report to any of the large number of editors and admins in the topic area who are allowed to file AE reports because an AE report that has merit needs to be filed by someone. Do I recognize and acknowledge a battleground behavior and incivility on my part in this report ? No, my objective was to try to get Shuki to stop making edits like this by explaining why I think her edit was problematic and symptomatic of a wider problem that I think she needs to address to avoid AE reports being filed. I also described what I regard as bullshit, an attempt to portray a clear policy/sanction violation as a content issue, as bullshit. My comments caused a lot of noise and bluster but Shuki explained her position and said she will not make edits like this in future. Apparently I use different criteria to identify battleground behavior, incivility, personal attacks and I'm used to noise. If I used the criteria being employed here I would be filing an AE or an ANI report against editors everyday. Since there is a mismatch between criteria, I told HJ Mitchell that I will not comment at AE reports anymore unless I file them (and I only file cases when there is serious disruption) or they are filed against me. I have no intention of recognizing or adopting the criteria being used in this report to identify battleground behavior, incivility, personal attacks and I will be continuing to describe what I regard as bullshit as bullshit. Consequently, not commenting at AE reports anymore seems like an obvious solution. Do whatever you think will benefit the topic area and its content the most. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC) Statement by MichaelNetzer[edit]A casual reader perusing this topic area might think Wikipedia has long thrown out neutrality and donned the populist hate-mantle. Editors trying to reclaim a semblance of NPOV are castigated for every move, threatened, intimidated and dragged to AE under false pretenses and pretentious charges. Qualifying a diverse Israeli Golan population as "settlers" in an infobox is far more pejorative and inflammatory than saying a settlement lies in the Judea & Samaria Area. Yet battle-editors complaining about Shuki's removal of one term, wouldn't rest until their own hated term was nearly erased from the encyclopedia. The legal statements on settlements, their verbose presence in leads and also in article sections, their disruptive placement interrupting content on the subject itself with bombastic titles and redundant repetitions, have turned these articles into a Wikipedia hate-in. One must wonder at the audacity displayed here with such "angelic" pretensions of neutrality. Shuki made a simple and correct edit towards the center in an infobox label. Nothing that warrants this level of disruption. How long will admins allow this abuse of AE to continue? --MichaelNetzer (talk) 06:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC) @TDA and admins: I agree that the proposed sanction against Shuki is an overkill for what seems an innocent oversight of a unique (and relatively unknown) prohibition for that page. It was also a reasonable and moderate edit that had already been through much more extreme states by other editors, evident by the fact that Shuki's edit helped clarify the dispute and modify the contentious terms towards the more neutral tone that's now in the Infobox:Population listing. That said, I think TDA misunderstands "indefinite" as "infinite", which I remember being explained otherwise here before. As I recall, "Indefinite" could be a week or a month or a year, depending on an editor's behavior. It essentially means "undefined", not "endless". If I'm wrong, admin clarification would be appreciated. Still, I agree with TDA that the sanction is exorbitant for this case. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 07:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Brewcrewer[edit]@Blade. Kindly withdraw from this thread. Your comments about reading up on Hass and Fisk, two authors on the extreme side of the spectrum (let alone a convicted defamer and someone whose reliability is mocked), indicate you're lacking familiarity with the basics of the Arab-Israel conflict. This unfamiliarity is further apparent from your suggested sanction. Even if sources uses the term "settlers" when describing Jews living in the Golan Heights, there are plenty of sources that simply use the term "Israelis." The latter neutral term should obviously be preferred in the name of NPOV. To weasel-word a maligned term into an infobox,[36] edit-war when it is removed,[37] is itself cause for sanctions. A fortiori sanctions should boomerang when the edit-warring npov-violating editor has the chutzpah to initiate an AE when things don't go his way .--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 18:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Shuki[edit]
Proposed Remedies[edit]I've stared at this for a several days and considered the circumstances again and here is what I propose to dispose of this report.
I will yield on #2 and #3 (though I am of the opinion willful condescension is on its face a personal attack) but I would like #5 to stay so that if this issue comes up again for either of them we won't be as lenient next time. #5 is not redundant, it's putting those who created the mess on this report on notice: cut it out. --WGFinley (talk) 00:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
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| Dalai lama ding dong (talk · contribs) cautioned; no formal action. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:10, 18 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]
Beyond the subjective characterization of the poll in such a way as to prejudice the reader into dismissing its significance (diff 1) and the subsequent refusal to self-revert an edit that removed all information on the poll from the lead despite being directed to the source for the poll on his Talk page (diff 2), this user is a classic case of a tendentious editor as defined at WP:Tendentious editing. His edits are overwhelmingly concerned with negatively portraying Israel in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and elevating the prominence of Palestinian claims, e.g.:
I'll stop here since evidence going back more than a couple of weeks is usually considered stale, but the pattern can be readily established with more and severer diffs if need be.—Biosketch (talk) 00:21, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Notified.—Biosketch (talk) 00:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC) Discussion concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]Statement by Dalai lama ding dong[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]Why hasn't this guy been hammered for having an offensive name? Jtrainor (talk) 07:38, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
comment by uninvolved jd2718[edit]The complaint/request should be narrowed. I have questions about a couple of the diffs. Of the two diffs that make this an AE matter, in the second I see removal of unsourced information. Is the source elsewhere in the article? Of the five diffs showing the editor has been warned, Ed Johnston's is ARBPIA, the rest are general edit warring? And of the three diffs being used to illustrate tendentious editing, I consider the latter two (balancing the ordering) to be legitimate topics for discussion (but of course not for edit warring), and far from tendentious. Jd2718 (talk) 17:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
comments by 71.204.165.25[edit]@ jd2718: Yes, the source is in the aticle, and was pointed to to DLDD on his talk, as explaine in the filer's comment accompanying the second diff, which says "removes sourced information about the poll's findings from the lead with an edit summary claiming that it is unsourced, and subsequently refuses to self-revert despite being directed to the source on his Talk page" - I've bolded the part you are apparently having difficulty with. And I would think ONE ARBPIA warning is more than enough. 71.204.165.25 (talk) 17:51, 11 February 2012 (UTC) @ jd2718: A quick glance at the article in question shows that the claim is indeed sourced, exactly as Biosketch claims: "An opinion poll conducted by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that 63% of Palestinians surveyed opposed the attack while 32% supported. The groups interviewed 1,270 adults face-to-face in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip from 17 to 19 March 2011.[62]" Did you look at the article at all before posting your comment? And BTW, you are clearly involved in the topic area, so you need to remove the misleading "uninvolved" from "comment by uninvolved jd2718" Result concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]
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| Jaakobou (talk · contribs) cautioned; no formal action. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:05, 24 February 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Jaakobou[edit]
Jaakobou clearly knows about ARBPIA as he was a party to the original case[39] and has since been sanctioned under ARBPIA several times:
In the first diff provided in the evidence above, Jaakobou states that two Palestinian newspapers including official [Palestinian] news wire Wafa ... described "supernatural rats", twice as big as normal rats and breeding breed four times faster. He supplies three sources for the paragraph. Only one is a news article; it makes no mention of "supernatural rats", twice as big as normal rats and breeding four times faster.[40] The other two sources are (sarcastic) opinion pieces, which as Jaakobou must surely be aware by now, cannot be considered reliable as sources for facts per WP:RSOPINION. Even so, neither of these refer to supernatural rats ... twice as big as normal rats and breeding four times faster.[41][42] One does make mention of "giant rats" and includes an unattributed quote "large as dogs" - which, assuming it is accurate, may be a direct quote from the Palestinian news wire itself, or just a colloquial expression quoted from someone interviewed for the story. Regardless, these sources are not remotely sufficient to justify the inclusion of a truly exceptional claim such as that an "official news wire" of the Palestinian Authority accused Israel of releasing "supernatural rats". Had Jaakobou not been so eager to restore his defamatory paragraph, he might have noticed that a fourth source, which actually contained the extraordinary claims he is so keen to include, was previously removed from the article - but this source too was only an op-ed, and a heavily sarcastic one at that[43] - although Jaakobou thinks not, as he affirmed in the edit summary of a previous revert.[44] Jaakobou is well aware of the objections to the misuse of heavily sarcastic jibes sourced from op-eds and presented as straight fact. We know this because he has been reminded of it in edit summaries[45][46][47] by the people he has been edit warring with over this content,[48][49][50][51][52][53] and because it was explained to him long ago on the article talk page. He simply doesn't care. A couple of further comments. Jaakobou is an editor with a long history of misconduct in the topic area (see the comments about him from other users in the original WP:ARBPIA case, for example). As I recall, he narrowly avoided a siteban some time ago over this. When he was more active on the project, he acquired a reputation for filing meritless requests for action at both AE and AN/I. In my experience, he also happens to be one of the more unpleasant characters to deal with here; rather than discuss content, his communications on talk pages are leavened with vague insinuations of impropriety on the part of his respondents; an example being my last contact with him, last year, in this discussion, where he finds fault with almost everyone while managing to avoid practically any concrete discussion of content. IMO he has avoided a topic ban this long only because of his lack of recent activity, but he has had years to reform and as his latest edits demonstrate, has apparently learned nothing in all that time. Gatoclass (talk) 15:37, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
@HJ and Blade: My apologies for apparently failing to explain the issues clearly enough. With regard to the charge of "gross misrepresentation of sources", allow me to present the two edits in question again.
In both cases, Jaakobou attributes the quote "supernatural rats" to Palestinian newspapers (one of which is apparently an official news wire of the PA). But this quote does not come from "Palestinian newspapers" - it comes from a heavily sarcastic op ed parodying the reports in those newspapers.[56] The effect is to hold up "Palestinian newspapers" - and by extension, Palestinians - to ridicule. I want to emphasize the seriousness of this misrepresentation: Jaakobou is charging that an "official news wire" of the PA credited the Israelis with having and employing supernatural means in their struggle with Palestinians. That is not merely an exceptional claim - it's an outrageous one. Such a claim would clearly require exceptional sourcing, but Jaakobou's source for this tosh is a heavily sarcastic op ed which is obvously employing exaggeration for effect - exaggerations that Jaakobou has presented in the article as factual statements. So apart from misrepresenting the sources, Jaakobou has also grossly breached the requirements of WP:V. There is plenty more I could add, but in the interests of brevity, I will conclude simply by noting that these gross breaches of policy are not the result of mere rashness or carelessness on J.'s part - he has restored this trash no fewer than six times over the course of many months.[57][58][59][60][61][62] He has also pointedly ignored the objections raised to this content.[63][64][65][66] So these are not only gross breaches of policy on J.'s part, they are also deliberate and calculated breaches, carried out over an extended period. Gatoclass (talk) 06:27, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Having already clarified my evidence, I am surprised to find that you still apparently see nothing "tendentious" about Jaakobou's edits. To recapitulate: he cherry picked the most prejudicial phrase available - supernatural rats - from a collection of sarcastic opinion pieces of highly dubious value as reliable sources. He then totally misrepresented the phrase by attributing it to a news story in "Palestinian newspapers", in such a way as to make it appear these newspapers, including one associated with the Palestinian Authority, were making the ridiculous accusation that Israel had released "supernatural rats" - thus inviting contempt for the associated Palestinian organizations. He did this a total of five times over the course of many months.[67][68][69][70][71] His last restoration was so careless he neglected to include the very source from which his cherry picked phrase originated - this in spite of the fact that he knew the phrase had been challenged by at least two other users.[72] At the same time, he doubled down on the offence by including an image of a rat with a caption even more misleading than the phraseology in the original misrepresentation.[73] With regard to your comment that the edit Jaakobou reverted was itself tendentious - presumably on the grounds that you think a section on the rat story was justified - you are entitled to that view. But I am obliged to point out that Jaakobou did not have consensus for his restoration of that section on the talk page, as at least two editors - myself and Poyani - had objected to its inclusion, while two others - Roscelese and Marokwitz - had expressed objections to the sourcing.[74][75] My own objection to the inclusion of the section in question can be read here, and I must reject any suggestion that the argument presented there is "tendentious". Gatoclass (talk) 03:34, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Jaakobou's latest edit demonstrates that he simply doesn't get it.[76] He thinks that by removing the quotes from "supernatural rats" he is somehow solving the problem, but his new edit if anything makes the passage worse. The problem is not that there are quote marks around the term "supernatural rats", the problem is that he is attributing the term to Palestinian newspapers, when the term originates from an obviously sarcastic statement in an op ed which almost certainly was never intended to be taken literally. There is no evidence whatever that Palestinian newspapers ever asserted that Israelis were releasing "supernatural rats" - if they had made such a ludicrous claim it would surely have been reported in more than one place. Jaakobou's new "solution" indicates that this is at least as much an issue of competence as it is of battleground mentality. I think at this point he's had more than enough chances to get it right. Gatoclass (talk) 12:56, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Jaakobou is now trying to justify his misattributions by (retrospective) reference to an alleged quote from the original Palestinian report that appears on the Palestinian Media Watch website, an Israeli advocacy site. Even working on the assumption that the quote accurately reflects the views expressed in the original Palestinian report, the quote does not include statements that the rats are "supernatural", that they are "twice as big as normal rats" or that they "breed four times faster" than a normal rat. These are all statements taken not from the original report, but from an opinion piece satirizing that report. By misattributing these statements to the original Palestinian report, Jaakobou has perpetrated a falsehood which has had the effect of portraying "Palestinian newspapers" in the worst possible light. Gatoclass (talk) 04:47, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Truly extraordinary that an admin whose own user page states that "nearly every significant edit I've made to an Arab–Israeli conflict-related article so far has been dubbed, directly or indirectly, a POV push" would attempt to pass himself off as an uninvolved admin in the I-P topic area. That aside, your claim that misrepresentation of sources is a "content dispute" not actionable at AE is patently wrong, as shown by this thread. Gatoclass (talk) 05:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
With regard to the question as to whether J.'s conduct is "serious" enough to warrant sanction - I obviously believe it is or I would not have brought this case. My concern is not simply that Jaakobou repeatedly misattributed statements, it's that the effect of those misattributions was to invite scorn for Palestinians. In my view, any content that tends to promote ethnic or cultural stereotypes should be subject to the utmost rigour and only included if that information is unambiguously relevant, notable and impeccably sourced. Hopefully then, it will be clear why I think that misattributing hyperbolic statements to make it appear that Palestinians claimed they were being tormented by "supernatural rats" is an offence occasioning some sort of sanction. Regards, Gatoclass (talk) 07:24, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't have time to respond in detail to Billinghurst's comment, so I will just note firstly that Billinghurst has made exactly one edit to WP:AE and can hardly be described as familiar with this process or the problems which beset the given topic area, and secondly, that I think it inappropriate for Jaakobou to be canvassing for commentary on this case at IRC where the discussion cannot be reviewed. Gatoclass (talk) 15:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Jaakobou[edit]Statement by Jaakobou[edit]To be honest, I'm having difficulty following the complaint and it seems to underline the severe battleground behavior which I've long put behind me (since 2008). Gatoclass, however, has never really been an honest participant in discussions relating the Arab-Israeli dispute whether it was content related or user behavior related. A review of his participation will quickly show a clear pattern of personal preference to a certain type of user -- and I'm not talking about good contributors. On point, Gatoclass has not approached me with his concerns and, certainly, his view was more than challenged on the talkpage and on article space -- by an admin no less.[80] His explained reasoning to remove said paragraph (which is about a ridiculous conspiracy theory) was "None of the sources refer to this specifically as a conspiracy theory." .. "Neither would it be unreasonable for Palestinians to conclude that the rats were being released in a malicious attempt to affect their quality of life. For something to be a conspiracy theory, it has to include a major element of irrationality."[81] How about the fact that Jews live in that neighborhood also? Where's the rationale behind racist rats?
I've noted this to Gatoclass on the talk: The mere suggestion that Jews bring in rats with a goal to kick out Arabs and replace them with Jews falls under "conspiracy theory" whether it is correct or isn't correct. "Such [conspiratory] allegations reflect a sick mindset and are part of a long-standing tradition of blaming Israel and Jews for almost everything that goes wrong in Arab countries and the rest of the world."[83] In this event, the only reason that there are regular rats -- not the cat chasing ones that can distinguish Arab from Jew -- is low sanitary conditions in the Old City and not an evil Jewish plot. Regardless, it is not up to you or me to judge the rationality of these conspiratory allegations. We're here to convey what has been published by reliable sources.[84] To be honest, if this is just about the phrasing used, then it doesn't belong here -- and, certainly, I did not invent any of the terms used myself but used the terminology of sources. If the phrasing has not been best, Gatoclass can certainly refine it. However, Gatoclass first choice of complete deletion and claims that this is not a conspiracy theory unless that term is specifically expressed, followed by this rushed non-collaborative attempt of complaint -- present my case for the underlying problem in Gatoclass's behavior. Direct quotes of the original Palestinian allegation include: "cats run away from these rats because of their size and ferocity.", "they seem to be immune to poison", "this female rat gives birth seven times a year, each time giving birth to 20 babies"[85] In this context -- this complaint as though my behavior of returning the paragraph (after it was deleted a few months ago, when editors stopped paying attention) seems wholly unproductive and personal. I have no problem with the idea that the paragraph could be fixed a bit but this complaint has little to no merit and, if anything, I believe Gatoclass should be reprimanded for wasting everyone's time like this. p.s. I've managed to work relatively well with editors who are not interested just in drama (Quasi-Barnstar Memorabilia - click links) -- including on the conspiracy article. Sample: [86] Gatoclass, for his own participation, has been blocked a year ago when edit warring with a third editor on the very article in question on this complaint. I incidentally changed his edit after he violated WP:ARBPIA which could be an added incentive for his non-collaborative approach. However, he still seems interested in removing anyone working on the page and deleting the paragraph rather than in correcting the phrasing to his liking. Maybe this is not the case but just my perception due to this rushed complaint. If he states to the contrary, I will certainly take their word for it. @Admins:
@T. Canens:
@HJ Mitchell:
@Admins:
@Response to Gatoclass' -- 12:56, 15 February 2012 -- update:
Summary on Gatoclass storytelling (aka From when are the diffs?)[edit]Apologies for not coming with this information earlier -- I considered this complaint pure harassment and did not want to waste time by looking at things which occurred in 2011. Here goes... My latest diff not from this month's undo operation has occurred on May 2011:
Gatoclass deleted the paragraph with his novelty personal belief (i.e. not supported by any sources) that it was "not a conspiracy theory",[90] and was reverted by an admin who asked for an explanation.[91] In June 2011, a while after discussions died down, Poyani removed the paragraph (without an edit summary).[92] I noticed the rats section has been removed months later, and I undid his action and asked him to not take advantage of the fact that editors stopped paying attention to the page. Reviewing my last contribution in May 2011, I was accepting the complaint against "supernatural" and did not reinsert it.[93] The only inaccuracy of the time appears to have been my using of the term "dog sized" when the exact translation on al-Hayat al-Jadida was "cats run away from these rats because of their size and ferocity". I forgot about this argument by February 2012, when I reverted Poyani and it appears that contentious language was reinserted by Gilabanrd on October 2011[94] prior to being removed again by Poyani on November 2011.[95] Was I the one ignoring input and pushing the article towards the realm of extraordinary claims or was Poyani engaged in slow edit-warring, which caused me to reinsert a version I fixed in May 2011? Regardless, Gatoclass was and still is using hyperbole, not existing in the article, to promote his unsupported personal belief that it is not enough of a conspiracy theory to merit mere inclusion (per: "My own objection to the inclusion of the section in question can be read here" -- Gatoclass, February 2012) Gatoclass could have just nudged me to get me to fix the article again (as I did in May 2011) -- but that does not appear to be his purpose.
Comments by others about the request concerning Jaakobou[edit]So, after an uninvolved administrator told Gatoclass that it is misleading to list these two diff separately , as they were made 16 minutes apart with no intervening edit, he goes and repeats his charge, treating each one as a separate incident. @T.Canens: On your user page, you have a sub page, "AE" , containing instructions for filers. One of these instructions is "There must be at least one recent edit that is alleged to violate the remedy. If all the edits cited are old, the case will likely be closed as stale without action, and the filer may face sanctions for filing a meritless request. As a rule of thumb, edits are not recent if they are more than a few days old.". When filed, both diffs used here were more than 6 days old, and they are now a week old. Can you explain why the filer shouldn't face sanctions for filing a meritless request? You further state " Attempting to mislead or deceive is a very bad idea and may result in sanctions." One of the admins here has commented that 'The edits were made sixteen minutes apart with no intervening edits, so it seems a little misleading to list them separately". Does that admin have it wrong, or is there some extenuating circumstances here, beyond the fact that the filer is himself an admin, that would prevent sanctions from being applied to this frivolous and misleading report? 71.204.165.25 (talk) 03:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Comment—it seems that Gatoclass is taking a content dispute in which he is involved to WP:AE in hopes of getting the opposing editor sanctioned. Even in the admin section (where I might've placed this comment, but I have had too many interactions with both Gatoclass and Jaakobou for that), the discussion is whether Jaakobou's edits violated content policies, which is not an argument for WP:AE. If Gatoclass has a problem with the content Jaakobou is inserting and believes that there's a problem with the sources or WP:SYNTH or whatever, he should seek consensus on the talk page, and failing that, open a content RfC. If anything, misrepresenting content disputes as behavioral issues in order to remove any opposition is an act of gaming the system and should be summarily dismissed by the administrators at WP:AE. —Ynhockey (Talk) 15:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Jaakobou[edit]
Uninvolved admin's view. The revert in question on the article page in response to the removal of the section seems reasonable in the context of no edit summary, and not having specifically edited the article in six months; and looking at the text on the talk page. Though I would have liked to see the fact of the revert raised on the talk page.
It would be good to see both parties try to understate rather than overstate encyclopaedic articles, especially as to me the articles has many elements of construction by people where English is not their primary language and some of the wrong connotation comes through in the use of words. Within that context, it would seem inappropriate to sanction anybody, and to get people to inquire politely about the appropriate or relevance of word used, rather than to accuse of disruption. (Truth be known I probably see more superlatives used in the description of the case, than attributed in the article.) In conclusion, no rebuke or sanction as it looks to me to be a good faith revision. Review the article in a holistic sense as it pulls together circumstances to provide a points of view and is presented as an investigative article, rather than an article in an encyclopaedia, definitely look to review the use of certain words. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:46, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
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