The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Disregarding Uishaki's WP:JUSTAVOTE, the (narrow) consensus is that there is not enough that can be usefully written about this future event at this time.  Sandstein  07:58, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2014 UEFA Europa League Final[edit]

2014 UEFA Europa League Final (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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More than two years away, only "fact" is the venue. Delete per WP:Crystal. For me it's not important whether it fails CRYSTAL. Over-ridingly, there is only one fact which this article could possibly comprise of, which is not enough justification for an article on Wikipedia. Cloudz679 16:21, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Cloudz679 16:23, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - per nom. It will almost certainly become notable in the future, but at present fails all relevant notability guidelines. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Does anybody actually read WP:Crystal when nominating? I cannot see how this article violates any of the five points listed. Point 1: "Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." Match is notable and almost certain to take place. Point 2: "Individual items from a predetermined list or a systematic pattern of names, pre-assigned to future events or discoveries, are not suitable article topics, if only generic information is known about the item." Non-generic information (venue) is known. Points 3-5, none of them applicable. So which part of WP:Crystal does this violate? Chanheigeorge (talk) 16:31, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep--Uishaki (talk) 17:51, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails WP:CRYSTAL. – Michael (talk) 18:15, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Meets WP:CRYSTAL ("Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place"). Lugnuts (talk) 19:18, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - an event that may happen (and it is a 'may', anything could happen in between, including the big one ;P) in two years time. Recreate at the click of a button nearer the time, when more info is available. GiantSnowman 19:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:Crystal does not have any "time frame" for when an event is close enough to happen to have a page to be created. And when is more info going to be available? Apart from minor details like ticketing, the next time more info will be available for this match is April 2014, when the identity of the two finalists are known. This page currently has a similar amount of content as, 2012 UEFA Champions League Final, 2012 UEFA Europa League Final, 2012 UEFA Super Cup, 2013 UEFA Champions League Final, 2013 UEFA Europa League Final, 2013 UEFA Super Cup, and 2014 UEFA Champions League Final. Not sure why this page is singled out for deletion. Chanheigeorge (talk) 16:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. GiantSnowman 16:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Again people are quoting something without actually reading much of the article. In the section Wikipedia:Other stuff exists#Creation of articles, says, "When applied to creation of articles, this concept must demonstrate that articles of a similar nature and construct are included throughout Wikipedia." And I have demonstrated that articles of similar nature and construct are included throughout Wikipedia. So thanks for proving me right. Chanheigeorge (talk) 17:50, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Wrong link on my part, I meant WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. GiantSnowman 18:02, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • New link does not negate what I demonstrated. And from your new link, "While these comparisons are not a conclusive test, they may form part of a cogent argument; an entire comment should not be dismissed because it includes a comparative statement like this." Chanheigeorge (talk) 18:23, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • Let me ask you then - what's your argument for keeping? This event may happen in the future? That similar articles exist? Neither hold any weight. GiantSnowman 18:35, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
              • Re-quoting WP:Crystal in my original comment. "Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." This match passes this test and other relevant criteria in WP:Crystal. All current information in the article is correct and verifiable. All similar UEFA articles I cited were created (excluding redirects and obvious nonsensical stuff) at the same time point: when the venue of the match was announced (e.g. the 2012 UCL final article was created in 2009 when UEFA announced the venue), and none of these articles have gone through a deletion discussion. Lots of sport event articles are created when the venue (assuming non-regular venues) has been decided, or even when the venue bidding is ongoing. I have quoted from WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS that this argument holds weight: "When applied to creation of articles, this concept must demonstrate that articles of a similar nature and construct are included throughout Wikipedia.". However, you just seem to fail to acknowledge any of my points. On the other hand, what is your argument for deleting? That it is too far away? Who decides what year is too far away? Sorry that I could find anything supporting your argument in any Wikipedia guidelines. Chanheigeorge (talk) 18:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. It may technically pass WP:CRYSTAL, but there is not much to write until much later. – Kosm1fent 20:15, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So technically passes means passes. There's no grey area. Lugnuts (talk) 10:02, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But actually all there is to know for sure, is the venue. Cloudz679 16:48, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As in all the upcoming UEFA match articles that I have listed. Chanheigeorge (talk) 17:55, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Which would make them ideal candidates for deletion. Cloudz679 20:26, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As your argument is that these articles should be deleted according to WP:Crystal, please cite particular sentences in WP:Crystal that support your argument. I have cited sentences in WP:Crystal that support my argument that these articles pass WP:Crystal and should not be deleted, and I eagerly await your reply. Chanheigeorge (talk) 05:04, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see... Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_crystal_ball - "If preparation for the event is not already in progress, speculation about it must be well documented". Don't think so. "While Wikipedia includes up-to-date knowledge about newly revealed products, short articles that consist only of product announcement information are not appropriate." This is a short article and only consists of product announcement information. It is certainly a product in the business sense. Cloudz679 07:26, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response. At least you have made your points clear, even though I disagree with them. But since you have changed your reason for deletion (I did not see it when I commented last time), I am guessing even you are admitting that this article likely passes WP:Crystal. Chanheigeorge (talk) 11:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Technically passes, and also passes in terms of the spirit and purpose of the rule. An event almost certain to take place, about which there is advance discussion, is sufficient to an article. How many years to go in advance for such events is a matter of judgment, but 2014 is just the year after next, and is certainly a reasonable period for major sports events. DGG ( talk ) 00:12, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - This year's UEFA Europa League Final hasn't happened yet, next year's UEFA Europa League Final hasn't happened yet, how in the world could anyone believe that it is necessary to start writing an article about the UEFA Europa League Final which won't take place until the year after next? Per WP:CRYSTAL, these types of articles "are not appropriate article topics if nothing can be said about them that is verifiable and not original research". —SW— ^prattle 22:44, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.