The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Stifle (talk) 08:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Tabone[edit]

Alan Tabone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This article was up for prod. The prod tag was removed, perhaps spuriously, and then put back. Another Wikipedian is arguing that this is unfair and seems to think that Wikipedia is anti-Maltese. I have no opinion on deletion of this article except to say that I don't think that is is an obvious no-brainer and I thought it deserved a proper AfD discussion, if only to prove that we are being fair. DanielRigal (talk) 22:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I'm not a football expert, but if this guy played on the national team, doesn't that meet part of WP:ATHLETE? What the article needs, if it's going to be saved, is some reliable sources that confirm this. If they aren't forthcoming, then I lean to delete. AKRadecki^Speaketh 22:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Is this a joke? He plays in the top pro league in Malta,[1], on a team that is playing in the UEFA Cup first qualifying round.[2] Lots of sources.[3][4][5] Easily satisfies WP:ATHLETE. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Per Clarityfiend. Ecoleetage (talk) 00:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 03:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 03:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Has only played for the national team at youth level, and the Maltese league is nowhere near the "fully professional" standard demanded by WP:ATHLETE. Precisely because leagues such as this get automatic places we don't usually accept UEFA cup qualifying round participation as showing notability - only the competition proper. To put this into a bit of context check out the population of Malta. Having name checks in the Maltese national press shows no more notability than equivalent coverage in local newspapers in larger countries, which many footballers well below the notability bar get. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: While I can see sense in your comments about the leagues, I can't agree about the national newspapers. Some countries are small but their national newspapers are still their national newspapers. We don't want to set a standard where we assume that the entire country is not notable and that its people are only notable by their coverage in foreign media. --DanielRigal (talk) 11:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: This is something I've been mulling over, as well. I live in SoCal's Antelope Valley (Palmdale/Lancaster), which has roughly the same population as the country of Malta. If we're not going to be Americanistic (or fill-in-the-blank if you're from a country that has more than a few million residents), we need to be sensitive to the fact that notability can be somewhat flexible...a sports team or an individual player from the Antelope Valley wouldn't be considered notable if only mentioned in our local paper, because it's measured in relation to the US as a whole. But in a country of that size, though the national media may not be any "bigger" than our local media, it should have more weight in such determinations. I don't believe that Wikipedia is "anti-Maltese" as the rather angry editor accused it of being, but I do feel that we can be insensitive to situations like this. AKRadecki^Speaketh 00:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep for UEFA Cup (whether qualifying round or "competition proper" does not matter to me - it's the same competition) appearances, and the sources found by User:Clarityfiend. General notability guidelines trump WP:ATHLETE. - fchd (talk) 13:28, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep: OK. I didn't have an opinion when I started the AfD, and I still know less than nothing about football, but I am now leaning towards keep based on the media coverage found by Clarityfiend. --DanielRigal (talk) 14:30, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Clarityfiend. GiantSnowman 16:22, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 16:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep based on sources found by Clarityfiend. Edward321 (talk) 22:28, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Very clearly fails WP:ATHLETE because the Maltese league is not fully professional. Apperences in UEFA Cup are irrelevant - do appearances in qualifying rounds of other competitions confer notability? I look forward to seeing articles on all players of the 6,000 clubs in the Coupe de France if so. The sources provided also fail to show that the player passes WP:BIO; the two news articles make mention of his name during match reports and say nothing about him, whilst the other one is from his club, and is therefore not an independent source. пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. As Number 57 pointed out, the Maltese league is not fully professional and simply playing in the UEFA Cup doesn't confer natablity - if it did, does that mean we can look forward to a flood of articles from the Welsh non-league scene?! The sources provided above don't really satisfy WP:N requirements - a blog (just a brief mention in the team lineup), the club website, and a handful of brief mentions in match reports. Bettia (rawr!) 09:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The second biggest club competition in Europe doesn't confer notability, yet an appearance in the Johnstones Paint Trophy or League Two would? - fchd (talk) 11:12, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Only if both teams were fully pro, as mentioned at WP:FOOTYN. Bettia (rawr!) 11:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:FOOTYN is a personal essay, not adopted as either guideline or policy (and in my opinion has been totally discredited). This sort of AfD proves it. - fchd (talk) 15:52, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmmm. Not quite sure how this AfD has discredited WP:FOOTYN, but as it says, you're free to use or ignore it as you wish. As far as this AfD goes, my opinion stays the same; this guy fails all three of the usual notability criteria (WP:N, WP:ATHLETE and WP:FOOTYN). Bettia (rawr!) 11:53, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete not professional, not yet appeared for senior Malta side. I don't buy the argument that a middle size fish in a small pond is 'more notable'. Not being anti Malta (or indeed anywhere else - I live in a small pond too) but in the footballing world a player makes the grade or he doesn't. To make the grade in Malta that means going abroad to play fully pro, or making the national side - 1 in x00,000 makes it. Same in any place big or small, 1 in x00,000 makes it. In Oz, with 20m people, you can play local professional league, go abroad to play pro or make national side, only 1 in x00,000 makes it. You don't inherit more notability because you come from a small place. A player in top Cook Island team gets more local press coverage than 2nd div England, but that is only because the paper has nothing else to write about, not because the player is more notable. UEFA cup appearance? if they get beyond qualifying rounds maybe, but no more notable than non-league FA cup matches or NZ Chatham cup qualifying matches before that.--ClubOranje^Talk 11:24, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Maltese League is not fully professional, and playing the UEFA Cup qualifiers is way different than taking part in the full competition - even San Marino and Andorra teams compete in the qualifiers, and their players easily fail WP:N. In short, none of the competitions above (Malta Premier League and UEFA Cup Qualifiers) confer notability. About the "reliable sources" provided by another user, they are: a personal blog, an article taken from the club website (definitely not a independent source), a Playerhistory.com page (a website that covers also non-notable subjects from several minor league teams, such as San Marino and the English Conference). The other two sources, taken from two Maltese newspaper websites, do not cover the subject in detail, but instead refer to him in a somewhat marginal way. So, he does not meet WP:N. --Angelo (talk) 15:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.