The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Eagles 24/7 (C) 06:17, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Albert Mariner

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Contested proposed deletion. Reasoning given was that all the references used are National Front/white power websites, not reliable sources. Nothing better found in a search. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:07, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 23:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. — Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 23:11, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Do Not Delete If the Nationalist Community in Great Britain wish to remember an old war hero, who received a fatal injury at the hands of those who oppose them, then why on earth shouldn't they? The fact that there is no apparent press corroboration only strengthens the version of events that are remembered annually. So called minority groups murdering White people in the West are always kept as quiet as possible by the press and police, it was so much easier to cover things up back then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BrightonIron (talk • contribs) 04:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC) — BrightonIron (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I suppose it was more or less inevitable that someone would play that card. Please add new remarks at the bottom, not the top, and please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's core policies. We need verification from reliable sources. Any kind of website with an obvious social/political agenda, no matter what persuasion it may be, are not considered reliable. Beeblebrox (talk) 05:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This is a difficult one. There is no doubt that Albert Mariner is well known within a limited circle. But the claim that he died as a result of being hit on the head by a brick, which is the basis of that limited fame, is not supported by evidence. There is a press cutting on one site which refers to the matter, said to come from the East London Advertiser which is the relevant local paper. That explains that the medical opinion was that he died from a heart attack and it is clear that his fellow party members have had no success getting others to take the supposed martyrdom seriously. It may be that there is a bias there - the National Front membership did like to present itself as consisting of hard men, and there were frequesnt allegations, some proved, that members were involved in violent attacks on members of ethnic minorities. It is very different from the case of, say, Blair Peach where the medical cause of death and the broad circumstances in which it occurred are well attested. So I would delete for weak notability and one event. --AJHingston (talk) 23:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no reliable sources have been found, therefore it is original research. Also, the cause of death is limited in terms of its notability. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:13, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per above comments --Snowded ^TALK 04:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest possible delete. This isn't a memorial article at all, it's a blatant attempt to play the wounded martyr card. But in the event this was actually intended as a memorial article, tough luck. Wikipedia is not a memorial site and the majority of criminal acts - even murders - do not qualify as notable on Wikipedia. Any murder is wrong, but I am well use to fascists' tactics of portraying themselves as the victimised underdogs, and you are not entitled to use someone else's website for that purpose. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 06:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 13:49, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete For reasons stated above by AJHingston, Sjones23 and • Gene93k and, to take it further, if the account given is accurate, it is not a case of murder but manslaughter. Emeraude (talk) 16:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC) Emotive language in article and in this discussion does not help the case for retention (e.g. being in Second World War does not equate to "hero".) Emeraude (talk) 11:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No independant sources. Szzuk (talk) 21:49, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - apparently no significant coverage in reliable, secondary sources. I can't see anything in the article that would meet notability guidelines.--Beloved Freak 21:51, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I posted the article in good faith, not completely understanding the "reliable sources" guideline I suppose. Although I am sure I have seen other articles on Wikipedia using sources such as Searchlight and US far right sources... If it's going to cause so much offence to left-wing users, then delete it. It was not my intention to cause offence. I do however take offence to the rather emotive, and personal, attack of Chris Neville-Smith above. For one thing, I am no right-wing martyrologist and have no interest in the NF/BNP. Quite the opposite in fact (I am a card carrying Labour Party activist who also happens to be a liberal Anabaptist Christian; I do relish the role of devil's advocate sometimes though). Despite Mariner's odious beliefs, he was still a human being. I found his death quite sad. That's all. I try and see things from all angles where possible. Jenniferhynes (talk) 20:45, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just so we're clear, the only reason I nominated this is because of the sourcing issue. Being offensive has nothing to do with it, we have biographies on war criminals, serial killers, child rapists, and so forth so long as there are reliable sources and some indication of notability. It doesn't seem that anyone outside of National Front/white power websites believes that he died of anything other than a heart attack. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:52, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support that. If there is a prejudice against using right wing sources purely for that reason, then there should not be. The problem with any source espousing a cause is that the facts may get in the way of the story. If there were really evidence that his death had arisen directly from the demonstration, that the press and establishment had conspired to cover it up, and reliable sources and independent coverage had backed that claim up, then things would be different. --AJHingston (talk) 00:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No reliable sources available. TFD (talk) 00:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above, not verifiable at the current time. If reliable sources can be found for this individual, an article might be appropriate. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 00:57, 29 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.