The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Delete or Merge (to John Serry, Sr.) articles written by late composer's son (WP:COI) which have WP:V and WP:NPOV issues and are lacking reliable sources commenting on their importance. Listing per COIN incident. -- samj _in^out 16:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete although this was also the title of a much-maligned but still bestselling Joe Eszterhas book which could (and should) have an article. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Unless WP:Reliable sources have commented on these two musical compositions, they should not their own articles. EdJohnston (talk) 16:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep appears source-able.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure? This Google search is not returning anything but work unrelated to Serry, or mirrors of Wikipedia. The title 'American Rhapsody' has been used by others. EdJohnston (talk) 16:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm not sure, but I don't have easy access here to any of the offline sources this would likely be in. Predates the Web, after all. And there's no WP:DEADLINE for getting this done...--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: neither articulation of notability nor substantive third-party sourcing. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 16:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

user:pjs012915 Do not delete ---the composition has been published by a major music publisher which is still active in te field (Alpha Music co) and describes a musical composition which has been reviewed and accepted for archival and research purposes by a professional archivist and Special Collections Librarian at a major music conservstory library Eastman School of Music (See link in article) where the compositiion is used for educational and research purposes into early 20th century american music. thanks pjs012915

Comment This user is the composer's son and article author. -- samj _in^out 18:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. —--Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord ² 18:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: trivial coverage. JamesBurns (talk) 05:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As indicated this composition and the Concerto For Free Bass Accordion have been recently archived at the Eastman School of Music's Sibley music Library-- but has not been listed on its web page--for verification researchers can contact the Special Collections Librarian and archivist David Peter Coppen at the university by E-mail at dcoppen@esm.rochester.edu or by phone at 585 274-1335 for complete verification. They may also attempt to contact Professor Eric Bradler- Professor of Accordion at the University of Denver's Lamont School of Music http://playgroundensemble.org/bios.html who has acquired copies of both compositions for instructional purpose at the university. The Lamont School of music is a major conservatory and one of the few conservatories in the United States which continues to offer advanced studies in the classical accordion. Professor Bradler can be reached by E-mail at ebradler@du.edu or by phone at 303 871-6977 at the university. He may also have information regarding citation of this work by Professor Robert Davine--the former head of the Accordion Studies Department at the Lamont School who was a mentor to professor Bradler and a studnet of the composer John Serry Sr. as verified on his web page (See User talk:EdJohnston for link. Proferssor Davine intended to publish a book which cites major works for accordion prior to his death and expressed an interest in including this work back in the late 1990's. I'm not certain if the book was every published but Profesor Bradler may have additional information. See comments posted on User talk: EdJohnston for further details.

For those editors who continue to doubt publication of the original composition for accordion, verification can be obtained by contacting the composer's publisher : Alpha Music Inc., 747 Chestnut Ridge Road, Spring Valley, NY 10977-6224 Phone 845 356-0800 Mr. Michael Nurko-President. Used copies of the music can often be found on E-bay. thnkas again.

In addition I do not agree that coverage of these compositions is trivial in so far as they provide an insight into attempts to advance a musical instrument into orchestral ensembles in the United States during the early 20th century long after it had gained acceptance in Europe (as the Wikipedia article on the Accordion and it use in classical music makes clear. Contributions to this integration process by American composers of this period are quite limited but nonetheless of historic value to researchers and musicologists of modern American music. By retaining these articles Wikipedia assumes an invaluable role in expanding our understanding of the evolution of music in the USA. It should also be noted that the article has received some interest in the Italian Wikipedia where it has been translated. Evidently researchers in Europe have an interest in the music. In addition the particular composition American Rhapsody was composed by the composer as a homage to George Gershwin and constitutes a rare musical expression of early 20th century Jazz by musician who is documented to have performed with a major big band jazz ensemble under the noted conductor Shep Fields for an instrument which was often shunned and/or ignored ignored by classical musicians of this era in AMerica for a variety of reasons (See Accordion- use in classical music article. By preserving this article Wikipedia provides researchers and musicologists with a valuable insight into the evolution of music for the accordion in the United States which might otherwise not be possible while also providing access to a revised edition for piano. Thanks again for your interest. ------Pjs012915 (talk) 23:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)Pjs012915 (talk) 23:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)Pjs012915 (talk) 16:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)pjs012915[reply]

Comment This vote is again the composer's son and article author, though I'm not sure about the validity of their arguments - can someone familiar with WP:MUSIC please assess? -- samj _in^out 07:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:COI issue? JamesBurns (talk) 01:20, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's why we're here - the listing was in response to a WP:COIN incident. -- samj _in^out 05:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - obvious vanity articles by COI editor attempting to inflate the items' importance beyond all recognition. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:12, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to John Serry, Sr.. Since that article does not have a call for deletion, presumably notability there has not (yet) been called into question. The arguments presented here in favor of retaining this as a separate article come down to a claim that the score is archived at the Eastman School of Music, and that it is published by Alpha Music. Suggesting that doubters should email various people for confirmation of facts is not an acceptable Wikipedia documentation practice, nor an acceptable practice anywhere else. Nevertheless, if these criteria were sufficient to establish notability for the work independent of the composer article, then a number of fairly obscure works by Wayne Barlow, Burrill Phillips, Ronald LoPresti, Robert McBride, and other, lesser lights should also have separate Wikipedia articles (and I note that there are not even composer articles for Barlow and LoPresti). If archiving in any library and publication were sufficient, then tens of thousands of other works would also qualify.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:14, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Jerome Kohl; individual pieces are not always notable by themselves, even if the compoaser may be. There is very little evidence here per WP:RS. Bearian (talk) 00:35, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to composers article (most info appears to be OR so not much to merge). Being archived at the Eastman School of Music and published by Alpha Music do not make them notable. Duffbeerforme (talk) 04:21, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.