The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There's an evenly balanced split difference of opinion about whether the coverage in reliable sources is sufficient for WP:POLITICAN and WP:GNG. Both sides raise reasonable arguments. No consensus is the appropriate result. Mkativerata (talk) 19:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Angela Mansfield[edit]

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Insufficiently notable subject. City council member who does not meet the notability requirements of the WP:GNG. Also see WP:BIO#Politicians, which states, "A politician who has received 'significant press coverage' has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists."(Footnote #7) This is clearly not the case here. — Satori Son 13:57, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She meets WP:POLITICIAN as a city council member of a major metropolitan city, Indianapolis. A Google News Archive of her name plus "Indianapolis" shows hundreds of article in reliable sources that discuss her. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked at many of those sources (I'm pretty sure), and they only appear to mention her. Have you found an in-depth, featured article where she is the subject of the story? Multiple ones? Also, simply being a city council member does not mean she automatically meets the WP:GNG, it simply means we presume that she likely does unless research shows otherwise. Thanks. — Satori Son 20:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Cullen328: I'm not seeing those "hundreds" of Google News hits that you saw. Am I typing something wrong? In the search field Im using "Angela Mansfield" Indianapolis and I get zero hits in Google News. --Noleander (talk) 18:41, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A normal Google News search just returns recent results, maybe within the past few weeks. A Google News Archive search will go back over 100 years. Use the tool at the top of this AfD debate, but then you can change the search keywords to disambiguate and refine the search. Adjusting the keywords can allow you to zero in quite a bit. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:01, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:35, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - The WP:Politician notability guideline does not automatically endow notability on councilmembers of major cities: in addition it requires that they "have received significant press coverage". There are zero hits for "Angela Mansfield" indianapolis in either Google News or Google Books. There are some in Google Web, but they seem all rather incidental ... as Satori Son says above, the articles dont focus on her. --Noleander (talk) 18:34, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. — frankie (talk) 00:47, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. — frankie (talk) 00:47, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The general notability guideline says that "The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources. Multiple sources are generally expected." It also says "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material". Our notability guideline for people says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". This Google search shows 136 news stories that mention Angela Mansfield of Indianapolis. Admittedly, many are brief mentions, but the sheer number of times she has been discussed in reliable sources over the years convinces me that she is notable under WP:POLITICIAN. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:25, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying that "many are brief mentions", I'm saying that all of them I have found are. May I please ask you again: Have you found any articles in reliable source that contain anything other than a trivial mention? I have been unable to do so (but I certainly have made mistakes before). If you could provide links to such, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you. — Satori Son 14:56, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wifione _.......^{Leave a message} 03:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I too would like some links for these articles as Satori asks for. I too cannot find these in depth or even less than passing mentions. tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 04:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let me remind other editors that our notability guideline for people says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". That is exactly the case with Angela Mansfield.

Mansfield's notability began at least as far back as 2002 as an official of the Indiana state budget agency here, here and here. As a city council member in 2005, Mansfield favored stricter controls on smoking here, here, here and here. She was endorsed for re-election in 2007 by the city's major newspaper here. The early vote count indicated that she had lost here. However, she won a narrow re-election victory here and here in a vote that involved charges of vote count irregularities here. In 2009, she's discussed in connection with redistricting here. In 2010, she criticized lack of accountability in the sale of water and sewer systems to private investors here. Also in 2010, she filed an ethics complaint against another council member here, and that council member promptly resigned. She also returned to advocacy of smoking bans in 2010 here.

Some but not all of of these stories are hidden behind pay walls, but I can assure other editors that my personal Google searches verify that every one of them discusses her in the context I've described. Simply use the Google News Archive tool, and add Indianapolis to the search, plus a variety of other relevant search terms such as smoking, redistricting, budget, election, and so on, to duplicate my results. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:48, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

comment Just to clarify, and no disrespect intended, your google results don't necessarily mean a whole lot. I have to be able to see such. And for additional clarification look at the section you yourself quoted- "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". Notice the word may. That being said while IMHO it is squeaking by, I have to agree that that is enough to just meet notability because it is third party and reliable. tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 06:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

further comment Also thank you Cullen for providing the info links. Very helpful and made it possible to make a relatively informed decision. again tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 06:06, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome and your comments are most gracious. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (barely) there is in my opinion just enough coverage at present to meet third party standards in verifiable reliable sources to meet notability. I would add though that more sources and quality are added to the article, but then again isn't that what we all want? tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 06:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.