The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama. Black Kite 20:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Barack Obama in Hawaii[edit]

Another editor, Wehwalt, doesn't think this article should exist even though he states it is factual (not POV). I am helping him create an AFD. He mentioned that the article might be merged. User F203 (talk) 23:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~Abstain and comment. Presidential boyhood homes are notable. Info on Obama homes are scattered and not in one location. The Honolulu newspaper thought the subject is important enough to devote an entire article on the subject as has a few other papers. Interest in the subject is there as there are tour companies that show the locations. No politics is discussed in this article.User F203 (talk) 23:27, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment and question - I think the only problem here is WP:NOT (perhaps WP:NOTGUIDE, WP:NOTDIRECTORY, or WP:INFO). The article seems neutral and as yet unaffected coatrack efforts, but even if it isn't, it's better to fix articles than delete them (except in hopeless cases). Formal notability is not an issue but for the "NOT" policy... there are indeed articles and books written about this subject. The facts in the article are by themselves encyclopedic. It's really a question of whether we want to gather them all in one place and present them in this way. If we do, why do this for Obama and not all biographies of very famous people? That would certainly go so far, so what's special about Obama that he needs an article about his relationship with his birthplace? Wikidemon (talk) 23:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not object to merge and the original nominator (I did the work for the nominator, Wehwelt) doesn't object. However, the BHO article is quite large that I don't think they will like it there. Besides, that article is a battleground as evidenced by ArbCom involvement so separating a non-controversial portion may be wise.User F203 (talk) 23:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have a good point regarding separating non-controversial sections of controversial articles. Unfortunately, for some, at least, (not me, BTW), the inclusion of President Obama's birthplace, while (IMO) well source, is considered controversial. Good work on this article, though. Cheers, --4wajzkd02 (talk)

Delete/Merge - Don't really see the merits for a separate article on such a narrow time frame of Obama's early life. Early life and career of Barack Obama is a relatively short article, so whatever material here that isn't there can just be merged. Tarc (talk) 23:44, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I never said that the article shouldn't exist, I said that similar articles are often considered for merger. User F203 is freaking out and I don't understand why this should be so.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Friendly reminder of WP:Civil. Perhaps you'd consider refactoring your comment to remove your description of User F203's actions? --4wajzkd02 (talk)

I appreciate the reminder but have you read what he left on my talk page? Shouting "NO!" at me and urging me to block another user, together with repeated comments without waiting for a response there, here, and at TT:DYK, yeah, I would say "freaking out" is a fair description. And it's not a pejorative, it is merely descriptive. Thanks though.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge I don't think there is any need for another new article. There is already an article that deals with Obama's early life and childhood. --Pstanton (talk) 23:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/Merge - At first glance, the content that isn't forked from Early life and career of Barack Obama could easily be incorporated into it. Content specific to notable buildings and locales could be incorporated into articles for those locales. Obama will visit many notable places, but a list of them is not required. ~~

Delete Seems to mostly be based on fringe sources and/or unwarranted speculation and synthesis of sources that aren't specifically about this. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 00:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC) striking vote and abstaining from comment: after a closer look at the article, it's more about a directory of places and stuff than what I thought it was about (based on t he DYK discussion from what I arrived here); my earlier comment is not really relevant. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 00:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete'. Content fork. MickMacNee (talk) 00:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge I agree that Presidential boyhood homes, schools, and workplaces are notable, and overall I find this article interesting--there's something fascinatingly different about a President's Hawaiian childhood--but I don't see why the sourced, non-duplicative content shouldn't be part of Early life and career of Barack Obama (especially since a chunk of this article is actually about Indonesia).--Arxiloxos (talk) 02:52, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and delete to early childhood article. Niteshift36 (talk) 08:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Early life and career of Barack Obama; it's worth mentioning that if any content is merged, the article will have to be redirected, not deleted, for GDFL reasons. Parsecboy (talk) 12:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with and then redirect to Early life and career of Barack Obama --4wajzkd02 (talk)

If there is a merge, then a merge to Honolulu may be more appropriate.User F203 (talk) 14:38, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Early life and career of Barack Obama. QueenofBattle (talk) 15:49, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and merge only relevant information to the aprobiate articles.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 22:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

* Weak delete or merge with Early life and career of Barack Obama.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 16:38, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Early life and career of Barack Obama per the above ukexpat (talk) 19:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as suggested by others. Crafty (talk) 21:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thoughts about not merging but keeping There is certainly many people thinking that it should be merged. I see what these people are saying. I would also like to point out that this article is very non-controversial. People like it. Some say it is chatty. This will make it harder to fit with the Early Life of Barack article, which is one of the many Obama articles where there are heated edit wars. It is not impossible but could be the start of some conflicts. So a separate article is the way for less conflict. There are also other articles in print about Obama's Hawaii but I've not edited this one more because it does look like a merge is what will happen. That extra information is much more scholarly than a list of addresses and places. The Wall Street Journal had some good information on the front page a few months ago, which I might be able to find online. In short, while it is very likely that an admin will merge it, please consider the above comments and when you merge it, merge it carefully. I've done some of the work for you, such as intertwining sentences in the right place. User F203 (talk) 16:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested on my talk page to you that you consider using much of the same material in an article, Hawaii boyhood homes of Barack Obama, limiting it to his residences as a child, and I think that would be a useful addition to WP. Give it a try?--Wehwalt (talk) 01:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Smerge Firstly, and mostly, because there is a place for this already (per Tarc) - some of this info is already there and some of the pertinent other can be incorporated. Secondly, because these painstakingly elaborate descriptions of the President's early years' locations are foremost in response to the indefatigable "born in Kenya" wingnuts who rely upon any fuel to the fire - however inadvertant or well-intentioned - to justify their talk radio employment. It gives their theories unwarranted credence. An article on the boyhood homes of the Texan-to-mah-bones George W. Bush could conceivably be seen as just as coatrackety and pointy, for example but that isn't a disputation of fact as it is with a hardcore group that doubt the President's place of birth. And F203's rationales for its retention: that it is very non-controversial. People like it. Some say it is chatty are about as good a set of reasons for Keep as a simple facepalm is for a Delete, whereas (a) separate article is the way for less conflict statement is touchingly - and irrationally - naive. Plutonium27 (talk) 20:36, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article is notable enough to have its own topic. By the way, the Barack Obama article is very big, so making this article seperate from Barack Obama makes it easier for readers. -- 科学高爾夫迷 21:57, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No editor suggested to merge it into his main article. Please read the responses.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 22:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There really aren't any persuasive arguments for not keeping this as a separate article. There's nothing wrong with having a detailed article about one part of his life. After all, he is one of the most notable people in the world and in modern history.--Pink Bull (talk) 00:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Bull, I agree with you that a more detailed sub-article is appropriate, but could you please clarify why you think that article shouldn't be the already-existing Early life and career of Barack Obama?

To be honest, I'm not that proficient in Wikipedia policy, but figured that if a subject is notable and has enough information to make a healthy sized article it should not be merged into another article. Especially when the target article is quite large already. --Pink Bull (talk) 02:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Early life and career of Barack Obama. I think it's clear that the material is good, but just doesn't need to be kept separate. Irbisgreif (talk) 01:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Merge to Early life and career of Barack Obama. Article by itself doesn't warrant it's own article; there isn't exactly an article on "George Washington in Virginia", is there? Cheers, I'^mperator 20:27, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.