The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 00:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic Theology of the Body[edit]

Catholic Theology of the Body (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

The contents of this article appear to be original research. While it quotes much Catholic writing (and the quotes are supported by references), the interpretations (what ideas are included with the "Catholic Theology of the Body" or even whether this is a coherent topic separate from JPII's speeches—which are covered in their own article Theology of the Body) are completely unsupported. Lyrl^Talk _C 23:23, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep with some cleanup, and some additional references to get rid of the apparent original research. This is a notable topic that has received a lot of coverage from numerous theologians. BradV 00:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep with modifications. It has a lot of good information in it and it taught me several things. I see no reason for throwing away good material. History2007 (talk) 13:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep This is not WP:OR. This is an adequately written and well-referenced article. While there are some sections that need to be written still, it seems OK to me. I will not comment on its accuracy or completeness, as I am not a Catholic. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep: Catholic theology of the body existed since the Church fathers dealt theologically with the human body. The Wikipedia article in question, while recognizing the contributions of JPII, deals with the perennial theological issues of the origin and destination of the human body, the relation of body and soul, and consequences for human behaviour, marriage, virginity and sexuality. The article is only one week old and growing. While it can be most certainly improved, the topic is worthwhile. Catholic Theology of the Body will become in my view, a small addition to the Wikipedia body of knowledge. --Ambrosius007 (talk) 09:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Perhaps a couple of examples will help illustrate my concerns:

• The article states that "The 1950 dogma of the bodily Assumption of Mary, is the latest dogmatic manifestation of the Catholic Theology of the Body". There is no reference to support the claim that the Assumption of Mary is part of the "Catholic Theology of the Body".
• The article says, "Early Church Fathers wrote on the role of the body and its relation to the soul." Undoubtedly true. But there is no source to support that the writings of Ambrose of Milan, Augustine of Hippo, and Thomas Aquinas are considered to be part of the "Catholic Theology of the Body".

And on and on throughout the entire article. The statements in this article are well-referenced, but the claim that they are viewed by the theological community as part of the "Catholic Theology of the Body" is WP:OR. Even the article itself seems to have trouble with this assertion: the phrase "theology of the body" appears only once in the entire article, in the first sentence! Should someone point out to me a book or article discussing this concept of "Catholic Theology of the Body" (as distinct from JPII's lectures) I would happily withdraw my nomination.

Should others view this as an obviously coherent topic (even lacking any sources treating it that way), an alternative to deletion would be a rename to a descriptive title (lowercase letters only); treating the title as a proper noun is probably the largest part of the OR in this article. Lyrl^Talk _C 02:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theology of the Body mentioned here, is an admirable, very powerful commercial product advertised by Christopher West and others[1][2][3][4] It refers mainly to views expressed by Pope John Paul II in a series of 129 lectures. They are sold in book form and CD versions and numerous seminars and meetings. The Wikipedia article called Theology of the Body, (April 7, 2005) attempts to describe these 129 lectures of John Paul II, focusing mainly on contraception and less on theology. Some would like to reserve the title ToB to themselves (and the commercial products), which seems to be in part the concern here. Ambrosius007 (talk) 09:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is more than the product ToB. Wikipedia Category:Theology of the Body lists 19 pages, of which Catholic Theology of the Body is just one. The issue here is deletion. Therefore, all questions of detail I would be delighted to discuss on the talk page of Catholic Theology of the Body, where they belong, such as the mistaken accusation of original research. Thank You. --Ambrosius007 (talk) 11:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)--[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.