The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. —Kurykh 03:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cinderella Liao[edit]

Cinderella Liao (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

It does not meet the notability requirement for a wikipedia article and the article does not have reliable un-biased sources to back up the information in the article. Nrswanson 06:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to failing to establish notability (See Talk), this article reads like self-promotion (or promotion by an agent). It provides no independent, verifiable published references, only the artist's own claims on her promotional web page (pasted verbatim into the article) and one interview she gave in Hawaii to promote her concert.Voceditenore 13:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Their not notable, therefor shouldn't have their own article. Warrush

• Delete Non-notability, zero non-trivial third party sources, and I think there's enough there directly from her website to make a case for copyvio.--Ispy1981 16:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 16:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 16:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete. Subject of article in major local newspaper. Alas, not much else. Open to changing my vote if more sources can be cited, though the article does need other work. Realkyhick 17:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• KEEP Like I have stated before WIKIPEDIA should be inclusive not exclusive. All this needs is more references but the article should remain. Callelinea 18:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, one brief mention in Taipei Times[1] suggests that subject's notability is limited even in Taiwan. --Dhartung | Talk 20:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete changed to Weak delete (See comment below) I have been waiting to vote to see if any further evidence would be offered once the article was nominated for deletion this morning. Since then, the creator (and virtually sole editor) has removed the majority of hyperbole and unsupported assertions of "critical acclaim" and "rising star" status. But I'm afraid this does not address the issues of notability. What is left is an opening paragraph, wherein Miss Liao is defined as a "contemporary coloratura soprano in Taiwan" (no date of birth is given) who "sings opera and Broadway." and has done some modelling for "famous brands" in Taiwan.
  1. There is no evidence that she has sung a principal role in any noted opera house. In fact, she is entirely unknown in the opera world. Nor is there any evidence that she has sung in any major Broadway production, even in a minor role. The article goes on to say that she was "invited to be the prima donna in both Rossini's L'occasione fa il ladro and Puccini's La Bohème". However, the article offers no evidence that she actually performed these roles and where.
  2. She is not a noted concert artist. She has not yet sung with a major orchestra or ensemble. All her listed appearances have been with youth or university orchestras. And so far she lists only 6 such appearances. Although not listed in the article, I found on her web site, the listing of two appearances with the Dallas Li Sheng Ladies' Choir in churches in Austria and Germany wherein she sang three solos.
  3. She has not won any major (or even minor) music competitons
  4. The one recording listed (of Taiwanese folk songs) is not yet on sale and is not with a major record company. The Evergreen Orchestra in Taiwan, routinely records all their performances and sells the CDs in Taiwan to raise money for music scholarships. A link is provided to the Evergreen site.
  5. The only references offered, are the artist's own web site, her own words in an interview given to promote a concert in Hawaii, and the record listing on the Evergreen Orchestra site. The only other mention that we have been able to find was in the Taiwanese press and it was a simple announcement of a concert, amongst a list of many other events taking place that month.
  6. The article does not fulfill even one of the criteria for notability for musicians and ensembles
  7. In short, this is a possibly promising music student (one of literally thousands), who may or may not one day achieve a signicant career in music but has not done so yet. Voceditenore 21:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Article has been greatly improved by CaliforniaAliBaba and the creator and principle editor, Blo. POV removed as well as unsourced claims to opera performance and more references have been added. But I'm still doubtful that the press coverage cited confers notability on its own. Voceditenore 06:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Voceditenore. Additional comment is that the creator of this article, Blo, is a single use account - suggests possible vanity. Bigdaddy1981 01:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Multiple instances of non-trivial coverage in reliable sources can be found by searching on the Chinese name 廖英君: [2][3][4][5] (also [6] from Apple Daily, scroll down and click the article titlewith her name in it, subscription-only). Obvious WP:COI (thanks for the picture, hope you actually understood the GFDL before you agreed to licence it as such!), but should be cleaned up rather than deleted. cab 03:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Thanks for finding the press coverage in Chinese. I ran them through the Google translator, apart from the Apple Daily, which was subscription only. I'm afraid that one appeared to be a press release and the rest were interviews/articles promoting the singer's concert appearance in Taiwan (very similar in vein to the one in the Honolulu Advertiser promoting her appearance there), two of them were virtually identical interviews with her mother, unlikely to be an unbiased source. Voceditenore 12:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Trying to judge whether an article is a press release or not based on a machine translation is a rather perilous exercise. For amusement and illustration, here's your comment run through a round trip of Babelfish. Because found in news report I hurriedly penetrate Gu Ge translator, except ' apple daily paper ', this is only subscribes Perhaps this is each is a news release as if, other interview/the article to promote singer's concert to make an appearance Taiwan (extremely similarly, publicizes in her appearance in vein for in Honolulu ' advertisement ') two people nearly entirely alike to interview her the mother, is impossible is a fair origin.

Anyway, the news article from Yam.com (the most recent one) is not promoting her concert appearance, but was several years after that, as part of a series of articles on high-achieving women (again, machine translation will make this unclear by confounding the tenses, which Chinese does not really have). So again, regardless of WP:MUSIC, she looks to me to meet the primary biographic notability criterion; she is notable by virtue of having been noted. Cheers, cab 02:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The one that appears to be a press release is the one from hinet.com. I based it on the standard format of listing email and phone addresses for the press to contact at the end. It appeared to be for another appearance of Miss Liao - singing selections from Phantom of the Opera during the opening of a painting exhibition (her mother's?) in Taiwan on May 18, 2007. The piece from Yam.com is dated a week before that, which is why I said it was similar in vein (and purpose) to the one in the Honolulu Advertiser. But yes, it's true, she has been 'noted', albeit in rather restricted contexts, i.e. pre-concert interviews where the journalist takes her at her word concerning what she has achieved. Best, Voceditenore 06:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Voceditenore. -- Kleinzach 09:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletions. cab 03:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per Voceditenore. Nrswanson 09:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Good effort on finding the articles in chinese, but I still do not think Miss. Liao meets the notability requirement. If we include her article then we would be opening the door to thousands upon thousands of other articles on 'bright young things' who show great promise but really have not done anything noteworthy yet with their carears. I myself am an aspiring opera singer and have actually performed roles with a number of professional companies. However, I would not consider myself noteworthy enough to have an article on wikipedia because I haven't done enough yet to truly distinguish myself in the field. Miss. Liao has not won any awards, performed with major opera companies or orchestras, or really done anything of note yet in the world of classical music. She is simply a young artist with lots of potential who may or may not make it in the opera world. There's 1,000s of us out there in the same position. In other words, she's nothing special... yet.Nrswanson 21:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.