The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 02:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eirin Jansen[edit]

Eirin Jansen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Article about an actress with no verifiable notability. Just a list of works appeared in, no references except IMDB and other resume sites. No evidence of substantial discussion of her in reliable sources, seems to fail the criteria at WP:BIO. Jayron32 05:09, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: a few theatre pieces, a few short films, a couple commercials, and no third party refs. Best of luck, but no. Hairhorn (talk) 12:19, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:BIO. ukexpat (talk) 14:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: She has a lot more than that; 35 credits including The Kennedy Centre, National Theatre, Royal Lyceum, and Young Vic. She's worked with important names in theatre; Mark Ravenhill, Charlotte Keatley and Kjetil Bang-Hansen. She's been in several features too, among them "I Am Dina", which is one of the most high-profile movies in Norwegian movie history. There she worked with Gerard Depardieu and Christopher Eccleston. I've seen her on stage and film. I thought IMDB was a reliable source, but will add more.

IMPORTANT- Eirin is also a high profile artist (co-creator of the city-wide Mankey Monkey project in Liverpool), I will add an artist biography, links, articles etc. relating to that as soon as I have time. --James W. Turner (talk) 16:39, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete while she has had lots of jobs I didn't seen any that weren't minor roles. Eeekster (talk) 04:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's not actually correct, from what I can see of her credits, most of them are leads or main parts. The last part I can see that wasn't a major one was in 2002, and that was in a movie with Gerard Depardieu and Christopher Eccleston. I've seen this actress in several plays and movies, (that's why I decided to write about her) and I've rarely seen her in a minor part. She's also a high profile artist, I need to add a chapter about that, but there a lot of links to articles about her artist work already, more to come. --James W. Turner (talk) 11:58, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The parts I've picked at random appear minor. As to the Mankey Monkeys, I am in Liverpool two or three times a week (sometimes more) and can't recall seeing anything of this campaign. I have had a connection with Alder Hey in the past, which would tend to make me notice this more than I might otherwise. From the Post and Echo's articles, it obviously happened. Unlike the multiplying of the Lambananas, it equally obviously made no impression on me. From the bulk of the Mankey Monkey links in the article, this is an important piece of work for the subject. There is virtually nothing there to back up the acting side, as far as I can see. The links given are not ones usually acceptable here as references (as external links, yes - but no references are given). IMDb, Casting Call Pro and Filmfront use supplied information. The Filmside poll of actors? Eirin in 18th place was beaten by an actor who is not well known for either his film or stage work. Adolf Hitler came in at number 9 (see his linked profile at http://www.filmfront.no/index.php/filmfront,actor.view/id,5541/ ) and Francis Ford Coppola managed 168, which isn't bad for a director, producer, writer and hotelier. The Who's Dated Who link I dismiss (apart from a Wikipedian's urge to correct the site's name to Whom. Peridon (talk) 12:52, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment In the friendliest possible sense; you're of course entitled to your opinion, but through my extensive knowledge of Theatre, I can confirm that most of those parts are major. I could go into detail if you'd like me to? There is also a one woman show there. More smaller parts in the early years of her career yes, but that goes for most actors. Regarding Mankey Monkey, that was a huge art project, over 100 sculptures and widely written and talked about in Liverpool. I'm surprised you could've been to Liverpool during that time and missed it, I went to see what it was all about and they were everywhere. One article says "Mankey Monkey fever" in Liverpool, it was. But there is plenty of documentation. Ultimately, I don't decide if this article stays or goes, but it would be a shame to remove it. She is an important actress and artist. I don't know if you're trying to dismiss the Din Film Side webpage, but that is an actual list of searches made at that website, which shows who people actually search for. Adolf Hitler is appearing in many documentaries, and I don't find it strange at all that people search for him. Plenty of the almost 70 links in the article can be used as references, I just need to move them and expand the article as soon as I have time. --James W. Turner (talk) 15:53, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The point I was making was that 1224 people looked for (or voted for - I haven't worked out which yet) for Hitler as an actor - and that Hitler has a profile on Filmfront. To my mind, this casts doubt on both the validity of the figures as an indicator of 'popularity', and the reliability of Filmfront as a source. Of course, coming high in a list like this might mean that very few had heard of the person before - which is the usual reason I look people up. I stand by my lack of perception of the monkeys. Not one did I see. I would suggest getting some references considered reliable in quick - see WP:RS. Most of those Monkey links don't mention Eirin at all, and having so many could lead people to thoughts of spam... Technically, I think, as there are links but not references, the article could be subject to deletion as unreferenced BLP. That's nit-picking, I know, but good reliable refs for the acting side are needed. To me, the monkeys aren't enough by themselves. Peridon (talk) 17:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hitler also has a profile on imdb. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0386944/ He's not an actor, but is appearing in many important documentaries, which is why people would search for him. To my understanding the list on Dinfilmside is of searches. I generally search for actors that interest me on film websites, not those I haven't heard of. I'm sure you agree that the reason Hitler is so high up on the list isn't because only few people have heard of him. I doubt 1050 people would search for an actress that only a few have heard of. I do apologise if I've misunderstood your point. There are also 2 features in Business Ezine, one about her art company, which mentions a lot more than the monkey project. I will add a chapter about the other art. Also, according to the official map: Tesco, BBC, Grosvenor, Pizza Express, Liverpool FC TV and Hollyoaks all sponsored a monkey, I think that's a pretty big deal. Regarding the monkey links, I thought the point was to find as many links as possible for credibility? I had no idea that could be seen as spam, I certainly have no wish to spam anyone. What should I remove? I Googled "Mankey Monkey" to find the links to articles etc, and they definitely do mention her and sometimes has her picture there too. She's even in a Mankey Monkey video with Henry Winkler. There are a lot of links on Mankey Monkey and I disagree wholehartedly that none of them are reliable. I certainly consider many of those sources, including Liverpool Echo and The Daily Post to be very reliable. I would like this article to stay because I think it belongs here and I will add more to help it, although after all this I'm really ready to write about other subjects too! Thank you for your views and help! --James W. Turner (talk) 19:34, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete She is a working actor but does not pass WP:BIO and certainly does not pass WP:ARTIST. No reliable sources, non-trivial sources are available. freshacconci talktalk 00:31, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Definitely more going on here with this new article than only a "few" theater pieces. Appears to meet WP:ENT, WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE. While yes, it lacked inline citations and referencs when first nominated,[1] new editor User:James W. Turner has since added a great many external links,[2] many of which are news articles dealing directly with this person and their work.... and yes, many of these external links need conversion to proper references... but concerns with style and format would seem addressable through regular editing and not a reason for deletion. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 17:29, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

She has played quite a few parts (note that some in the list are 'rehearsed reading' which are NOT parts played on stage) - but I find most to be either minor parts (Helen) or untraceable (Heather Clarke), or major roles played at very minor venues (Juliet at a secondary school). I am open to being convinced - but the links steer well clear of the acting side and concentrate on the Monkeys. My delete post above was after the great list was part of the article - and that list went a long way to helping me make my decision. Peridon (talk) 22:23, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just a few notes; I've researched it and she played Juliet at a Drama College, not a Seconday School. And according to her birth date on imdb she was 19. Also, most are not minor parts, all these are major; Cherie, Diamonique, Catherine, One Woman Show, Abigail, Miranda, Hedvig. I don't know all the other films/plays, but I can only find 3 minor parts here (apart from her early years); maid, Helen and Cordelia. (And Helen is far from as small a part as you indicate; at least not in the performance she was in. First time I saw this actress on stage was in A Doll's House in Edinburgh.) Only 3 out of 37 credits are rehearsed readings, and all 3 are with two of the most important British playwrights of our time. --James W. Turner (talk) 23:52, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies about the Hartvig Nissen - I was taking it to be the high school of the same name. Still, as with the Rose Bruford, roles undertaken at college are not usually regarded here as particularly notable. As to Helen, I re-read the play to make sure. The character is listed as Housemaid in the DP, is called Helen by Nora, but doesn't have many lines. I don't know if there is a different version of the play. I'm having a Google problem - it's only giving me one page of results for any search. Don't know what's going on there. I haven't altered anything. This is stopping me finding things beyong first page. Peridon (talk) 11:20, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Got my Google back again... "cherie and diamonique" on Google gives three results - here and two profile lists. Like with Heather Clarke, I can't see any more about it. If you have references that will tell us, please give them. I'm afraid that her lists and you seeing her don't count as reliable sources. Equally, "Nowhere Close Omnibus" only comes up with the same three ghits. Peridon (talk) 11:29, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't want to patronise anybody and I don't know how much you know about staging plays. But when staging a play, it's hardly ever done exactly as it says in the script. The director will take a new approach and choose a focus, a direction he wants to take the play in. He will remove lines and often whole scenes, and also add lines, actions and sometimes scenes to it. Otherwise there wouldn't really be any point in re-staging old plays, they'd all be the same. Eirin Jansen's part in A Doll's House was in no way a lead, but it was much bigger than, and far from as insignificant as you describe. As I mentioned, I watched it. The reason I mention Cherie and Diamonique is that that's the other play I've seen that actress in; which is how I know the parts were major. I may still have the program (I have hundreds of theatre programs, but I can have a look-through if I get time) but I have no idea who wrote the play or how to get hold of a copy of the script to prove it, so I guess (unless I find the program) I can't. But there are 37 credits to choose from, and I agree wholeheartedly with Schmidt. This article should be kept. --James W. Turner (talk) 17:07, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We have a problem here in that we have no evidence (beyond your word) that this is the case. Everything seems to come back to Eirin's profiles. There should be some word about C&D, but I can't even find it in connection with the producer Carl Wharton (who smiles) or the actor Carl Wharton (who scowls). (Actually, the same person wearing different expressions on two sites giving details for his different sides of the business.) There should be reviews, but I'm not even finding blogs. Peridon (talk) 17:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've Googled up this profile of another actress who was in the same production of Nowhere Close directed by Carl Wharton: http://www.uk.castingcallpro.com/view.php?uid=46869 So it clearly happened. I can't prove C&D were major parts unless I find the program, but there are 37 credits to choose from, so and all in all I still agree with Schmidt that the profile should be kept.--James W. Turner (talk) 18:49, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.