- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. — Newslinger talk 09:09, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Eldarion[edit]
- Eldarion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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The article on Eldarion exists because there is a confusion between importance in a constructed universe and importance in reality. Eldarion is very important in the former, and not at all in the later. He is not a minor character in The Lord of the Rings, he is a non-character. He is not even born until after the end of the plot. I am not even sure his name appears in the book per se, he is sourced it seems to the appendix, which in and of itself is generally a sign of non-notablity, not that being named in a book, even one as widely read as The Lord of the Rings makes one notable. We actually have a heavy legacy of pre-2010 articles on characters from literature, broadly defined, including works of literature that purport to be histories and are held as such by many of their reeaders (such as scripture), that are very low on 3rd party sourcing showing impact beyond those works. However the very fact that the article on Eldarion exists is probably the most extreme example of this I have ever seen. Yes, he sort of appears in a film, and true it was a very popular film, it at the time managed to become the 2nd highest grossing film ever, and still stands at number 26, although it may fall 28 or so when the Christmas holiday movie takes are all recorded. However Eldarion is not named in that film, and only appears briefly in a dream or vision of the future. Yes, Tolkien put pen to paper to write a story of the days when Eldarion was king, but he never made it more than a few papges into The New Shadow. The fact that such a non=character has had their article survive for just shy of 16 years is the saddest commentatry on Wikipedia possible. John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:10, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment This article was proposed for deletion back on Dec. 7th of this year. The proposal was removed with the bald assertion "this article is important enough to remain and sources should be found." Why exactly is someone not ever mentioned by name in the main text of any book or in any movie notable? Sometimes it feels like people confuse the issues of character notability and biographical notability. That might make sense if we were discussing people mentioned in works that purport to be works of history, but LotR is not such.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:17, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- My main take away from the proposed deletion on this is that no article on a Person created by Tolkien, no matter how far from appearing by name in any regularly published work of his they are, is going to be deleted by actual nomination. This article was created just after the release of the RotK movie. That movie released Dec. 17, 2003, so 18 days before the article was created.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom. A very minor character. It's true a lot of editors seem to be confused between in-universe notability and the notability of a character. This came up in the discussions about Radagast and Queen Beruthiel — important people in Middle-earth, but a minor character and a non-character for us.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:43, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I guess Queen Beruthiel was a major character in Middle Earth, since she was a queen (queen consort, but still). However she is not even mentioned in the work, only her cats. She lived at a time that Tolkien never wrote any stories set during.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:02, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I think it says something about this character that he is only mentioned in the Aragorn article twice, and once is in the infobox. Fails GNG. Hog Farm (talk) 16:29, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:28, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:28, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:28, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.