The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 05:37, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Father of the Nation[edit]

The article Father of Nation has been tagged for lacking sources, for needing cleanup and for being original research since 2006. It's a long exercise in original research, where a "father of the nation" is chosen for each country. Every single choice is original resarch, just one is sourced. To take but a few examples. Nobody denies the importance of George Washington but I for one have never heard him being called Father of the Nation. The authors of the article have decided that Micheal Collins is the FotN for Ireland, not Eamonn de Valera. No sourced reason is given to suggest why. I'm a Finn myself, and I can guarantee that our "FotN" is never called that, and many other good candidates could be found if such a title existed. I assume we can find the same situation for each country, the article just consists of persons picking their own favourites. One of the more amusing ones, naming former SNP-leader Donald Dewar as the FotN for Scotland. I can see no reason for this article to be left on Wikipedia. Not only is the title Father of the Nation not used in most countries, the choices are original research in each and every case. JdeJ 04:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, OR to the extreme. Wow. fethers 05:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOR and WP:NOT#PUBLISHER. This is way to POV laced and completely unreferenced/unfixable. meshach 06:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, most of these leaders seem to have been pulled out of a hat.--Nydas^(Talk) 08:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Huge subjectivity problem as clear from the talk page. Seems to attract opinionated editing to promote 'pet' fathers. Problem has not resolved despite extensive discussion. My involvement was over Iran and it has been a complete mess. The Behnam 14:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete strange OR article Bigdaddy1981 16:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No defence for this to be here. Drmaik 18:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment- It is not original research for Donald Dewar- he is often referred to as the Father of the Nation in relation to Scotland. See the BBC article reporting his death 'Father of nation' dies, the Guardian's obituary "Dewar earned himself the label of "father of the nation"" for example. Thunderwing 19:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete This disaster of an article is based on OR. It is highly subjective and provides few sources. The very concept of the article is subjective. --Agha Nader 23:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I actually learned that Washington was the "Father of our country", but that was way back before schools taught how eevil our founding fathers were. But this article is still OR. - Crockspot 05:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as extreme OR, and what little is sourced could be considered synthesis, as the sources don't necessarily support what "Father of the Nation" is defined as here. Someguy1221 09:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment While I believe the text in article is original research and should be removed. I also suggest it should be changed to only a list with referenced entries. At least I know for sure Muhammad Ali Jinnah is widely called by this title. please see Google Pakistan Gov website. --Webkami 16:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Just to add a bit to the examples: In Italy, king Victor Emmanuel II was officially adressed as "pater patriae" (father of the fatherland), but he is not listed in the article. Rather, Giuseppe Mazzini, Guiseppe Garibaldi and others are listed, who would certainly not have dared to use this title... The list given for Germany just seems risible, e.g. I've never heard of socialist Karl Liebknecht given such name that might remind one of a king. --B. Wolterding 17:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I added the page Mother of the Nation to AfD as well.[1] JdeJ 23:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, but trim intro and add references for all examples. Seems like a valid topic to me. BobFromBrockley 15:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In which respect do you think it's valid? --B. Wolterding 15:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Slavlin 15:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Pater Patriae. OR as noted above. Sandstein 22:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.