The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:28, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fraser Aird[edit]

Fraser Aird (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Speedy deletion per WP:CSD#G4 was declined on the grounds that Sky Sports article sourced in the article was not written yet the last time this article was deleted. Since it is a routine transfer announcement, the article still fails WP:GNG and Mr. Aird is still yet to play in a fully pro league, so the article still fails WP:NSPORT. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:06, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:07, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy delete per G4 (or at least the spirit of G4) and salt. We shouldn't be second-guessing consensus every time someone publishes details of a routine contract announcement for a junior player in a non-professional league. When, or if, the subject meets either WP:GNG or WP:NFOOTY, take it to Deletion Review and get permission to recreate it. Stalwart111 00:07, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 08:20, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Meets WP:GNG criteria going by sources currently used in article and other sources on Google that could be incorporated into the article. Also WP:GNG trumps WP:NFOOTBALL. VanguardScot 18:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Clearly passes WP:GNG if there are national news outlets writing articles about his future national team choice dilemma: Decision time for Gers kid Fraser Aird as Scotland tussle with Canada. Iainturnerisgod (talk) 18:42, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are we really at the point where a local paper's article about a junior footballer potentially signing with an amateur team counts as "significant coverage"? He still has to be notable for something. He's not notable for his football (per WP:NFOOTY) so what is he notable for? Being an indecisive teenager? We're going to start including articles for every unsigned junior amateur who happens to have had their indecision covered by multiple local papers? Stalwart111 22:52, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He is actually a professional first team footballer (not an amateur junior player), plays for a fully professional football team (not an amateur team), who happens to play in a league of mostly semi-professional teams. Facts wouldn't go amiss in a debate eh? VanguardScot 11:52, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from the obviously routine player profiles, match reports, squad lists, and transfer announcements, all we've got are a couple of local human interest stories, and an article written about every young dual-national footballer. Most of these sources were already rejected as routine the last time this article was deleted, and not without reason. This does not constitute significant coverage. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:08, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - no prejudice to recreation if the new Rangers club survive long enough to be promoted to a notable level, or if he's capped by either national team at senior level. Clavdia chauchat (talk) 11:27, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing as a 'new Rangers club'. See: spfl.co.uk/clubs/rangers/. 90.207.49.117 (talk) 11:44, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - he passes Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Notability. "Players are deemed notable if they meet any of the criteria below: 1. Have played for a fully professional club at a national level of the league structure. This must be supported by evidence from a reliable source on a club by club basis for teams playing in leagues that are not recognised as being fully professional." Rangers F.C. are a fully professional football club and play at a national level of the league structure, Scottish League One. 90.207.49.117 (talk) 11:44, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Scottish League One is not fully pro. See WP:FPL. Also, WP:FOOTYN is an outdated essay which is no longer used for player notability. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:22, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep -- Rangers is an extremely notable club, fully professional, but currently in a strange position due to its financial problems, which measn that it has had to work its way back up through the league structure. I would accordingly suggest that its players remain notable, dispite the club's (probably temporary) fall from grace. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:16, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That argument has been heard and rejected at afd on at least five separate occasions, including the last time this article was deleted. It is not the professional standing of a particular club, but the league in which they play that is relevant for football specific notability, or, failing that, the coverage received by the player in question. While some Rangers players will likely meet general notability, this one does not for the reasons I've outlined above, making a blanket exception for Rangers inappropriate and this article non-notable. Sir Sputnik (talk) 18:33, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - while Rangers still is a big club, this footballer hasn't received enough in-depth coverage in reliable sources to pass the general notability guideline, and playing for a big club confers no notability. And obviously, he fails WP:NFOOTY as he only plays at amateur level. Mentoz86 (talk) 17:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.