The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Captain Galaxy (talk) 10:52, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hollywood Music in Media Awards[edit]

Hollywood Music in Media Awards (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Niche awards show with no assertion of notability. All references are churnalistic re-reporting on press releases. The lead, in fact, also reads like a press release. When it claims that a show that started only 6 years ago has suddenly become a major predictor of Oscar winners, it's hard to see that as anything other than puffery. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:12, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:12, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:12, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: the one paragraph of prose in the whole article is also largely copyvio from the website's own "about" page [1].Richard3120 (talk) 21:35, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

have removed the copyvio, Atlantic306 (talk) 21:15, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as it is significant enough to be covered in reliable sources such as Billboard, Variety and Hollywood Reporter as shown in the article, in my view Atlantic306 (talk) 21:15, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see lightly edited duplicates of press releases as "significant coverage" as defined at WP:GNG. Per WP:NEWSORG, re-reporting of press releases is "churnalism" and does not count as a reliable source. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:07, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• No evidence at all presented that the coverage is from press releases, they look to be bylined pieces. If the awards are notable enough to be covered in reliable sources then we should include them, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 21:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • From WP:NEWSORG, "Press releases from the organizations or journals are often used by newspapers with minimal change; such sources are churnalism and should not be treated differently than the underlying press release." I'm not saying that any sources are literally press releases; I am asserting that the sources are so minimally changed from press releases that they are functionally equivalent to them and do not qualify as RS under this guideline. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:08, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Disagree, take the Billboard piece which seems to be from a reporter at the event: "The ceremony itself was an endless stream of technical mishaps with many absent winners" - hard to imagine that coming off a press release, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 21:21, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment – Note that a user has posted a message on the talk page for this AfD discussion, here. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:40, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay...firstly, let me start by stating I am new to the editing platform of Wikipedia. I appreciate those whom comment to obtain truth and responsibility for information regarding the subject. While reading the rules and procedures I ended up in this talk page. Hopefully, with this submission I will be able to comprehend the scope of deletion and possibly have constructive consideration for non-deletion. Before I continue I would like to inform those who read and reply that again I am looking for help with these Wiki articles and anything that could lead to insightful editing or encompass significant change to the subject matter would be highly appreciative at this time. I was involved with Hollywood Music in Media Awards I 2009 as a volunteer during the begin creation of the award show. As a paid CoI by Brent Harvey found with Hmmaward and on behalf of the Hollywood Music in Media organization I would like to start a discussion. Though limited in my technological understanding of the wiki platform it has come to my attention of the years that this wiki page has been created. I will begin the process of trying to gather the information needed to meet the standard guidelines and I request any help from peer editors in which they can open the dialog between us to keep the award show from becoming deleted. At this time information regarding its creation and the problematic areas are welcomed within review to show cohesive response to the building of accurate, factual, and correspondent knowledge about the Hmmawards organization. Throughout the years I have grown in the music industry and frequently been involved in the growth from the experiences from Hmmawards. This award show outlet will change the layout in which information is presented and connect added links from award winners, media sources, and relevant wiki music awards news. The entertainment industry is a vast network of links in which the Hmmawards have been prevalent since 2009. This July we will make the decision on the platform which the event will be annually held in amidst of the global pandemic. Studios and networks want to be involved with the hmmawards. As well as industry professionals, students, composers, and visual media mediums worldwide. I would like to purpose an administrator to elect certain editing restrictions to help the legitimacy in the information being added until the wiki article is updated and reviewed. At this time the appeal for non-deletion is being made and I am grateful the work from previous contributions and look forward to finding some compromise in this community to include Hmmawards which has become bellwether to those in the industry looking for representation such as our music supervisors which have become equally more relevant in the last decade since Hmmawards founded. Thanks for you time and consideration.Jrocksgibson (talk) 23:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Jrocksgibson: Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. The primary purpose of this discussion is to establish if the HMMAs are notable, which is the primary metric for determining if something belongs on Wikipedia. At this time, the sources in the article are unclear on how important the HMMAs are within the industry, how prestigious they are, etc. If you can point us to any published articles about the HMMAs themselves and the role they play within the film music industry, and not merely reporting on winners/nominees, that would go a long way in establishing that the HMMAs are notable and should be covered by Wikipedia instead of the article being deleted. Cheers, Axem Titanium (talk) 04:37, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • (@Axem Titanium: Thank you for welcoming me to the Wiki community. I have been reading throughout the information here so please bare with me while I try to educate myself on procedures and standards for the Wikipedia database and have indeed determined the question regarding notable and would like to help share articles about HMMAs. To my knowledge this article was created unknowingly to the organization which is why we'd like to establish the sources in the proceeding conversations. I appreciate your patience at this time although we will contribute the known importances HMMAs have been involved in the last decade in helping the industry in a largely growing technological world. Your guidance at this time is helpful and I will look forward in restructuring the layout and criteria to introduce HMMAs the wiki platform in a more conclusive manner that reflects how prestigious the organization became, the origins, notable causes, and our relevance within the industry HMMAs has grown. We do not wish to simply merely report on winners/nominees but entail the role HMMAs takes in the Entertainment, Film, and Music industries. I welcome any more dialog within the community in the days unfolding that will help answer questions on subject regarding notable or sources and any tips that help cover an insightful Wikipedia article. Thank you for the timely response! Stay safe. I will be updating the info requested all day tomorrow Jrocksgibson (talk) 05:08, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hi Jrocksgibson, before you go to town, I would recommend reading up on conflicts of interest with regards to Wikipedia editing. I'm not sure what your current relationship is with HMMA, but the best thing you can do right now is to look for external sources (like articles published online) that demonstrate why HMMA is a notable awards body. You don't need to and probably shouldn't directly edit the article for now. Axem Titanium (talk) 05:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • (@Axem Titanium: Today is the first time I was aware of the dynamics in Wiki. The expertise in your recommendations hold much validity in this conversation. I plan on sharing what I have soon in this thread sry if using the wrong terms. I am eager to learn! I want my relationship with HMMA to be truly transparent. I volunteered during 2009 and years prior have received emails and followed the organization via social media ever since in my career as an outsider non affiliated. During my reads today on conflicts of interest I decided in my introduction to make aware that I was asked to help contribute on behalf of Brent Harvey and The Hollywood Music in Media Awards organization to help the article in question. I was offered payment though no monetary or related attributions were agreed upon. Simply like many I am interested in Wiki articles and furthermore will only follow the guidelines and procedures the best of my acknowledgment. When I was introduced to HMMAs I volunteered which is the premise of Wiki editors. Here on Wiki I am again wanting to volunteer my time in providing a better understanding to the question asked above so the article can be fairly seen in respects by editors like yourself. Until more is clearly known I will continue to communicate here and prodominantly rely on assistance and helpful guidance in which will help adhere to binary openess in the resources to be reviewed, adapted, and shown. Thank you for responding in the best practical approaches to help service the wiki community. I look forward to expanding in our findings.Jrocksgibson (talk) 06:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Certainly. As for the topic at hand, if you know of any published articles (in print or online) that discuss the impact of HMMA on the industry or its value in the community, that would be helpful in determining the outcome of this deletion discussion. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to add the most relevant sources I have found that mention the above request. Please bare with me as I am trying to navigate this each day while learning new information about how to do this in respects to the community and validity of this article.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/multi-talented-singer-dancer-shevyn-183941246.html

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/hollywood-music-media-awards-sam-833164

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6737344/hollywood-music-in-media-awards-sam-smith-lady-gaga-brian-wilson

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/hollywood-music-media-awards-hunting-839623

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6760930/hollywood-music-in-media-awards

https://www.shootonline.com/newsbriefs/nominees-unveiled-hollywood-music-media-awards/archived_node

http://soundtrackfest.com/en/news/hollywood-music-in-media-awards-2016/

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/evanescences-amy-lee-wins-hollywood-music-and-media-award-for-speak-to-me-from-film-voice-from-the-stone/?fbclid=IwAR1ZTQdHb-

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/hollywood-music-media-awards-full-winners-list-1057748/item/original-score-feature-film-1057700

https://behindtheaudio.com/2017/10/hollywood-music-media-awards-announces-nominees-film-tv-video-game-music/

https://www.shootonline.com/node/82487

https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2019-11-22-ndlovu-youth-choir-wins-hollywood-music-award/ Jrocksgibson (talk) 18:12, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I took a look at these sources and I don't think they are what we should be looking for. Significant coverage should be about the awards themselves, what they mean for the industry, what the bona fides of the body are, etc, not merely reporting on nominees and winners. These articles are glorified press releases---a bunch of them from different websites even include the exact same paragraph! "If last year's HMMA voting is any indication, then the HMMAs are as strong a predictor of best original song and best original score Golden Globe and Oscar noms as any of the awards that precede those -- all five HMMA score nominees were also nominated for the corresponding Golden Globe, and the HMMAs were the only notable precursor award to even nominate the song "Lost Stars" (they actually gave it their best original song prize) en route to its Oscar nom." It's clear that they either published a press release from HMMA directly as if it were news or did so little modification that it's functionally a press release. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:08, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment – Note that additional comments have been posted on the talk page for this AfD discussion, here. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Lists of winners are not sigcov, but these articles are, at least as I see it. They may not be what I'd call "interesting" but they are not press releases, and two reliable sources is enough to squeak by the GNG. —Rutebega (talk) 00:07, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Hollywood Reporter article you linked is an exact copy of this Billboard article. That leads me to believe both articles were copied/derived from a press release. I'm not finding any obvious copy and paste versions of the Variety article, but that remains to be seen. Either way, 90+% of the prose of that article is just writing out categories and winners in sentences instead of bullet points. Axem Titanium (talk) 12:21, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Rutebega adequately found a few independent, reliable sources that cover this topic well. Additionally, while I don’t think lists of winners or regurgitated press releases are the best, I do think the large quantity of reporting on the awards, both within and without wikipedia, makes having an article explaining what they are conducive to the goals of this project. Mysteryman blue 08:50, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.