The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:06, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Kelly (Irish footballer)[edit]

Jack Kelly (Irish footballer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Footballer who fails NFOOTY and GNG. Half of the article isn't about the subject himself. BlameRuiner (talk) 05:28, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 06:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 06:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 06:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Frustrated delete vote, as the prose is good but the referencing is terrible. Philfarrell any other sources to save this one? I know he may be discussed in newspapers of the time, but good luck searching for Jack Kelly. SportingFlyer T·C 06:40, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 09:14, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Ping me if sources can be found. GiantSnowman 09:15, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep This is a player from the early years of Irish football so sourcing maybe tough to collect, I am inclined to keep per Cite #2 that reveals some good history. Govvy (talk) 18:03, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I think the article just meets WP:V with Herald.ie (ref #4), RSSSF [1] (listed at WP:WPFLINKS), and this book by Grüne. I don't know if this page (ref #3) is from a reliable source. I don't know if this History Ireland article is about the same Jack Kelly. I don't have ref #2 and can't access this article to see if there's any substantive mention of the player. But it seems we can verify that there was a Jack Kelly who played for St James's Gate and was the top scorer in the inaugural season of the League of Ireland, which strongly suggests to me that if we were to search Irish newspaper archives in 1921–1922, we would find articles written about this player, and there may even be coverage in books about Irish football in the 1920s. Not to canvas a !vote, but because I think she's familiar with historical Irish sources, I'm pinging BrownHairedGirl in case she has suggestions for places that might be searched, and also GiantSnowman to take a look at these new sources per his note above. Right now, though, I'm not seeing any GNG or reliable secondary sources upon which we can base this article, but I'm strongly feeling WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. – Levivich 03:37, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @Levivich, football isn't one of my interests, so I;m not the best person to ask for sources. A note at WT:IE might do better.

My own thoughts are that the contemporary newspapers might help. I doubt that the (subscriber-only) Irish Times has much on football, tho other archives are probably available through the (subscriber-only) British Newspaper Archive, which has archived some 19th-century Irish papers and continued some into the 20th-century. See e.g. https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/titles/evening-herald-dublin

I hope this helps a little. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:14, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @Levivich: check out [2], though I've tried three different (narrow) searches with no luck so far. SportingFlyer T·C 04:20, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks to both of you! – Levivich 04:22, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• I have to agree there must be sources ... being the top scorer in the first season of a 100-year old league is surely of note ... there's no end of match reports in Irish newspapers in the 1920s that I can find, even in other nations of Kelly scoring for big stuff. But hard to find anything in-depth ... normally books would be the prime source for that era. I did add one 1922 source for the FAI goal. It's not an easy search term, that's for sure. I'm surprised I can't find even a passing mention of his death ... is the date correct? Nfitz (talk) 23:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak delete – reluctantly, because I'm unable to find anything, and without sources, we can't write a proper article. – Levivich 02:15, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Kelly was my grandfather. There are not many sources, especially online ones of soccer in the early days in Ireland. I have read match reports on microfilm in a Dublin library but not online. Match reports tend to be sparse and lacking description. The Thomas Walsh book is out of print but is available in the national library of Ireland. The Joe Dodds book is also out of print but I have a copy, provided by Joe himself. I have researched my grandfather extensively and for now there aren't any other sources that I can find. Eoghan Rice who has contributed to this is a respected soccer historian in Ireland. As more and more materials become available online it may be possible to add to this article in the future. I have just added further references to this and will do my best to find more. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shoe shine boy mo (talk • contribs) 09:04, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.